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  #61  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
We are talking about modern culture.
Berlin is earning several billions every year through tourism. Why ?
It produces/provides a vast array of cultural attractions people want see and pay for.
The city has become the third most visited city in Europe.

BTW, NYC never had the Olympics and is neither a relevant location for football competition.
Recognizing this perspective, the city has never been a "cultural" metropolis during its whole existence....
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Last edited by Lear; Jan 22, 2014 at 8:34 PM.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 8:30 PM
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What about new operas and plays? I would expect Berlin's classical music expertise and history
coupled with the ultra-creative hipster population to come up with plenty of new ideas in this direction as well.
Well, new plays at Berlin operas (Komische Oper) can look like this ....

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  #63  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 9:08 PM
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^ No doubt, but I am specifically talking about true "culture" as opposed to lifestyle and youth culture and tourism: high school age kids on interrail passes, bars and clubs and DJs, that kind of thing doesn't count.

Iran currently deserves to be called a mecca of new culture: Iranian directors have produced some amazing, must see movies recently.

To me, Berlin is more a mecca of older western culture, with the musical and architectural and artistic heritages.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 9:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post

Iran currently deserves to be called a mecca of new culture.
The worlds largest film festival, the Berlinale, introduced these
new Iranian directors to a broader audience the first time, and honored them....

2006


2011


2013
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  #65  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 9:22 PM
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Cultural influence and exports is what politicians and strategists call 'soft power'. Soft power is vital for any world power, it is even considered as important as hard power 'military'. it is cultural influence that got the world on Americas side in the Cold War, it's cultural influence that makes America much more powerful, popular and liked than china etc. to have good popular modern culture you need creative people, creative people are only made in free, creative and democratic countries, the reason undemocratic countries have no modern cultural exports or influence is because their culture makes them not as creative as people from democratic and artistic countries like USA and UK. China are a rising country but still have no cultural influence on the world, the whole world knows American music and movies, no one knows Chinese music or movies, why.... The answer is simple, people in china are not raised in free or creative societies, westerners are raised to be creative, independent, individual, to think out of the box, Chinese society promotes the opposite, to conform, fit in, be like everyone else, this has ruined any chance for them to have good creative industries. If a Chinese director wanted to make a movie, a good movie that was realistic and portrayed things that the Chinese government don't want people to know, the movie would be stopped and changed, no one in the world wants to watch a censored Chinese propoganda movie, they all want to watch creative, realistic American and British movies
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  #66  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 9:43 PM
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Originally Posted by hughesnick312 View Post
they all want to watch creative, realistic American and British movies
Yup...and since all of them also want to experience the free world in 3D they come to Berlin to celebrate themselves .....


http://www.unicum.de/studienzeit/leb...festival-2012/


http://www.artschoolvets.com/news/wp...2-513x3841.jpg
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  #67  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 9:58 PM
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Awesome
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 11:18 PM
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We are going to have to agree to disagree I guess. Again, I am not interested in how many herds of young people are congregating to exchange bodily fluids and listen to music (see: Burning Man, various rock festivals like Roskilde, etc), or film festivals celebrating the work of other people (TIFF is in Toronto, not exactly making Toronto a hotbead of TV and film production). These are fun events, but to be a mecca of culture a place must also be a producer of culture consumed by other regions. Berlin obviously is such a place for orchestral music, but what are the much-discussed ultracreative hipsters creating? and where is the Berlin focused TV show, art, music that's been recently released to worldwide acclaim? TV in particular would be an easy sector, given how low-cost it is compared to movies.

I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm honestly interested in how certain regions that are acclaimed and hyped, versus those that actually produce new, good, non-fraudulent content.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2014, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
We are going to have to agree to disagree I guess.
I think we can agree on the following:
Among 10.000 cultural products, experiences a city and its citizens are able to create,
only those that are instantly presentable at the flatscreen of dc-denizen DO count......

Probably the most famous artist working in Berlin is Olafur Eliasson.

Tate Modern installation, London


Waterfalls installation, NYC


One way tunnel, San Francisco


Rainbow panorama, Copenhagen
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  #70  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2014, 1:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
TIFF is in Toronto, not exactly making Toronto a hotbead of TV and film production.

Toronto has a $1.3 billion film industry...
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  #71  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2014, 3:10 AM
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Toronto is known for its sci fi producing, filming, editing etc, stargate was from Toronto, Farscape and others, it is mostly American films and shows, but many are based in Toronto, and it does have its own production industry
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  #72  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2014, 3:45 AM
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Berlin being the third biggest European tourist destination is a big accomplishment worth recognising. London and paris are obviously the top two, but for Berlin to be third they had to beat big competition and rivals from prestigious tourist cities like Madrid, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Milan, Rome, Venice, Prague, Vienna, Monaco, Crete etc, berlin had to beat all of them, and they have. Twenty years ago Berlin had suffered so much from the east side, it was poor and needed modernising, no one would have thought that just twenty years later Berlin would be considered a better tourist and creative destination than other cities like Prague, Madrid, Rome etc. great achievment by berlin

Last edited by hughesnick312; Jan 23, 2014 at 3:57 AM.
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  #73  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2014, 12:49 PM
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  #74  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2014, 1:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lear View Post
Berlin is earning several billions every year through tourism. Why ?
It produces/provides a vast array of cultural attractions people want see and pay for.
The city has become the third most visited city in Europe.

BTW, NYC never had the Olympics and is neither a relevant location for football competition.
Recognizing this perspective, the city has never been a "cultural" metropolis during its whole existence....
Many great cities haven't hosted the Olympics. The IOC has a serious bias towards Europe, and is thus at a greater advantage when it comes to bids. Which is why only Los Angeles, St. Louis, and Atlanta have hosted them over 118 years of the modern Olympics, despite America's substantial rise in power over that period of time. The Olympics are not the be all end all of what cities are important and which aren't.

If you think Berlin is seriously ahead of New York City in culture, economy, or general importance, then you must think the same of Atlanta or St. Louis, which would be ridiculous. That's not to say Berlin, St. Louis, or Atlanta aren't great cities, but New York is clearly on a different level, with only London, Paris, and Tokyo as its peers.

Football (soccer) isn't a big deal in North America and I'm sure you're aware of that. You're cherrypicking. On the other hand, I don't recall Berlin hosting an NFL or NHL or NBA game.

With all that said, Berlin is a city that fascinates me greatly. It seems to have a very bright future as an innovative centre of Western culture. It feels more dynamic than the more preserved cities like Paris, Amsterdam, Vienna, and Rome.

I too would be curious, for such a creative city, what are some of Berlin's best right now? I know electronic music is huge there, but is there much in indie rock or hip-hop or anything? Berlin seems to have a similar youthful creative culture not unlike East London or Brooklyn or Portland or Montreal, so there must be quite a lot of quality music coming out of that city, I'm just not hearing much of it. What about television? Surely such a creative city should be able to pull of something as acclaimed as the Sopranos or Breaking Bad. Visual arts? Cinema? Literature?
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  #75  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2014, 1:48 AM
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On the other hand, I don't recall Berlin hosting an NFL or NHL or NBA game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Thunder
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  #76  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2014, 2:47 AM
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^ Interesting! Learn something new everyday...
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  #77  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2014, 2:18 PM
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Berlin is a beautiful city, rich in culture, architecture and history. My husband and I need to go back there.
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  #78  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2014, 4:36 AM
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Yeah, the city does give off the impression of an arts/cultural capital, but again, I'd love some examples of what it is producing of note because we don't get much exposure to Berlin culture in Canada. Where are the critically acclaimed TV shows, the avant-garde artists, the innovative musicians, the thought-provoking writers that call Berlin home?
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  #79  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2014, 1:46 PM
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Is Mecca really the best analogy? I mean, if you think about it, secular, eclectic and hedonistic Berlin is almost an anti-Mecca.
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  #80  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2014, 1:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ue View Post
Yeah, the city does give off the impression of an arts/cultural capital, but again, I'd love some examples of what it is producing of note because we don't get much exposure to Berlin culture in Canada. Where are the critically acclaimed TV shows, the avant-garde artists, the innovative musicians, the thought-provoking writers that call Berlin home?
Tim Gane , the founder of Stereolab lives in Berlin.
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