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  #61  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by We vs us View Post
I'm pretty sure that, regardless of the stated goals of the Episcopal Church, prospective tenants will raise holy hell about ARCH and its problems. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this project becomes one of the major nudges to get ARCH et al moved out of downtown for good. It just presents such a huge, visible risk to anyone wanting to be part of that block.
And from a "saavy" investor point of view, who wouldn't want to get a condo here? Honestly you'd be betting that the ARCH moves sometime in the next 10 years, and the moment it does, the condo's value goes up 1.5x
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  #62  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 6:26 PM
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I don't think ARCH is moving anytime soon (if at all). Furthermore, any possible margin could get erased because of the holding costs of any such "investment." I'm not sure you would want to let your "investment" hinge on a decision made by the City Council (if they ever take it up).
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  #63  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by We vs us View Post
I'm pretty sure that, regardless of the stated goals of the Episcopal Church, prospective tenants will raise holy hell about ARCH and its problems. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this project becomes one of the major nudges to get ARCH et al moved out of downtown for good. It just presents such a huge, visible risk to anyone wanting to be part of that block.
I am convinced that this project is dead on arrival unless the homeless services are relocated to another part of town, or law enforcement efforts are stepped up to the point that there is little or no sidewalk vagrancy permitted in the adjacent area. The former is probably just wishful thinking, and the latter may not be possible due to legal restraints. If nothing else, this proposal might finally get a serious discussion going about how and where to provide services for the homeless. The present situation has become virtually intolerable.
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  #64  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 6:50 PM
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I don't think ARCH is moving anytime soon (if at all). Furthermore, any possible margin could get erased because of the holding costs of any such "investment." I'm not sure you would want to let your "investment" hinge on a decision made by the City Council (if they ever take it up).
I agree. And I'm sticking to my opinion that the only viable option would be putting an office tower up at this location. Unlike the apartments and condos going up near the lake and hike and bike trails, what amenities could you offer at this location? Burglar bars, armed escort? I'm not saying that the homeless there are necessarily a threat, but perhaps a perceived threat and undesirable component that would be magnified when the sun goes down. Who among us doesn't check out the neighborhood before we invest and move in? I mean besides the Westin...
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  #65  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 8:01 PM
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I agree. And I'm sticking to my opinion that the only viable option would be putting an office tower up at this location. Unlike the apartments and condos going up near the lake and hike and bike trails, what amenities could you offer at this location? Burglar bars, armed escort? I'm not saying that the homeless there are necessarily a threat, but perhaps a perceived threat and undesirable component that would be magnified when the sun goes down. Who among us doesn't check out the neighborhood before we invest and move in? I mean besides the Westin...
I think getting Class A office tenants at that location would also be problematic. The chaos emanating from the permanent encampment on the sidewalks in the immediate area is just too much. Corporate tenants have heavy obligations to provide a safe 24 hour a day environment for their workers. I can't imagine many female employees feeling very safe or comfortable on those sidewalks during the day and especially in the evening.
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  #66  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 8:08 PM
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I think office is the most viable use given the undesirable location. But this is a point tower due to the CVC, and I don't think that's an efficient design for an office tower. A few floors maybe, but not 38. But apparently Cielo doesn't know what to do either since they left their options open for office, residential or hotel.
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  #67  
Old Posted May 2, 2017, 11:59 PM
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One thing this proposal certainly has done is to magnify that area around ARCH. Either way, there's going to be a lot of lively debate which has already begun in this thread.

This is an issue that the city has tried to brush aside for too long. Whether it's because of this proposal or the transformation of Waller Creek, the city will no longer be able to look the other way. It will have to be addressed and some sort of solution worked out. I don't believe that anybody thinks it will be easy. If it was, we would have seen the city deal with these issues a long time ago. I wouldn't try to venture a guess about what sorts of solutions the community might consider but I tend to side Goldenboot and Genral that the Salvation army and Arch are staying put. Moving them isn't necessarily the best solution or the right thing to do because it doesn't address the underlying issue of homelessness.
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  #68  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jdawgboy View Post
One thing this proposal certainly has done is to magnify that area around ARCH. Either way, there's going to be a lot of lively debate which has already begun in this thread.

This is an issue that the city has tried to brush aside for too long. Whether it's because of this proposal or the transformation of Waller Creek, the city will no longer be able to look the other way. It will have to be addressed and some sort of solution worked out. I don't believe that anybody thinks it will be easy. If it was, we would have seen the city deal with these issues a long time ago. I wouldn't try to venture a guess about what sorts of solutions the community might consider but I tend to side Goldenboot and Genral that the Salvation army and Arch are staying put. Moving them isn't necessarily the best solution or the right thing to do because it doesn't address the underlying issue of homelessness.
You're right it will be interesting, and I certainly don't know which way this will fall. But I know that there are already a lot of different groups pushing around the edges of the ARCH question -- the hospitality community is one, the club owners on Red River another, surely there's some internal pressure within city departments as well (ARCH is smack in the middle of the "Medical Innovation District" that Dell Med, and the new Brackenridge, and potentially huge new investors like Merck will want to spread out in). I agree that an ARCH move is improbable, and not necessarily even desirable (personally, I agree that the homeless need to be served where they are, and shouldn't be shunted to the outskirts of city life) -- but I think it's clear that ARCH (et al) is and will continue to be the main impediment to that part of the city being developed.
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  #69  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by We vs us View Post
You're right it will be interesting, and I certainly don't know which way this will fall. But I know that there are already a lot of different groups pushing around the edges of the ARCH question -- the hospitality community is one, the club owners on Red River another, surely there's some internal pressure within city departments as well (ARCH is smack in the middle of the "Medical Innovation District" that Dell Med, and the new Brackenridge, and potentially huge new investors like Merck will want to spread out in). I agree that an ARCH move is improbable, and not necessarily even desirable (personally, I agree that the homeless need to be served where they are, and shouldn't be shunted to the outskirts of city life) -- but I think it's clear that ARCH (et al) is and will continue to be the main impediment to that part of the city being developed.
I don't think that they should be shunted or moved to the outskirts, but I don't believe the current location to be healthy. A large portion of the homeless are so because they have mental health and/or substance abuse issues.

It simply can't be good for them to be in one of the easiest spots in the city to access drugs...and be in the middle of all of the substance abuse going on in that area on a nightly basis.

At some point, the value of the land those facilities sits on will hit a tipping point. I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually makes sense to cash out at a hefty price and then build new, improved facilities elsewhere.
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  #70  
Old Posted May 3, 2017, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by paul78701 View Post
I don't think that they should be shunted or moved to the outskirts, but I don't believe the current location to be healthy. A large portion of the homeless are so because they have mental health and/or substance abuse issues.

It simply can't be good for them to be in one of the easiest spots in the city to access drugs...and be in the middle of all of the substance abuse going on in that area on a nightly basis.

At some point, the value of the land those facilities sits on will hit a tipping point. I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually makes sense to cash out at a hefty price and then build new, improved facilities elsewhere.
The question becomes where exactly is that "elsewhere"? Every neighborhood in the city would fight tooth and nail to prevent the ARCH and/or the Sally from relocating to their neck of the woods. Right now the city owns substantial acreage at the site of the former Home Depot and an adjacent car dealership at IH35 and St. John's. At various times there were plans to relocate the main police station and/or the municipal courts to that location, but those plans were later dropped. There is plenty of room there to build a campus that could provide all kinds of services for the homeless, and it is somewhat well served by public transit and close enough to other services. It would, however, be criminal to impose this kind of disruption on the adjoining low income neighborhood that already struggles with poverty, crime, and drugs.

7th and Red River has been a congregating spot for the homeless since the Sally opened their facility nearby in the 1970s, but it was not overwhelming because there was not much else happening there at the time. Red River was the location of a few gay bars between 6th and 7th and two or three other spots like the much smaller Stubb's. Most of the rest of Red River from 7th to 10th was vacant and abandoned. The ARCH was previously located across downtown (in what later became the Mellow Johnny's bike shop started by Lance Armstrong) in a much smaller facility. The ARCH relocated to the new facility next door to the Sally around 2002 or so, maybe a year or two earlier. This happened at the same time that several new bars and clubs began to open along Red River creating the so called "Red River Cultural District", a name that I find absurdly pretentious. My point is that a kind of critical mass of homeless people and night-time revelers completely changed the dynamic of that part of downtown. It became a place of opportunity for many of the homeless and also an attraction due to the concentration of homeless services (and feedings), a communal spirit of sorts with other homeless people, access to street drugs, easy panhandling, and what have you. What you get there today is a real civic cluster fuck that might be one of those "what keeps Austin weird" kind of things. I would love to sweep those sidewalks clean and make that area safe and sanitary, but I think what we have is a monster situation that has no easy solution. Maybe very effective law enforcement is the best possible short term fix, but the APD never seems to have the stomach to engage in this kind of clean up activity for very long before they lose interest.

Last edited by austlar1; May 4, 2017 at 10:30 PM.
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  #71  
Old Posted May 12, 2017, 11:43 PM
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Some details were added to the site plan today:

Hotel rooms = 260
Condo units = 280
Office space = 182,328 sq. ft.
Supermarket = 27,109 sq. ft.
Restaurants x 2 = 8,200 sq. ft.

The site plan:

https://abc.austintexas.gov/web/perm...ertyrsn=201188

At least one of the restaurants should be a soup kitchen for the locals.
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  #72  
Old Posted May 13, 2017, 10:23 PM
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A supermarket?!?!? YESSSSSSS
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  #73  
Old Posted May 15, 2017, 3:43 AM
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A supermarket?!?!? YESSSSSSS
I agree this will be amazing. Honestly, over an HEB or Whole Foods which we've seen rumored in WPP, Plaza Saltillo, One-two east, I really hope this is a Target or the equivalent. Downtown residents desperately need something like a Target....
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  #74  
Old Posted May 15, 2017, 4:24 AM
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..... there will be a target by UT now. which is great.... maybe someone else will jump in to compete closer to the center of downtown instead of just on the edge!
Sooo happy to see more choices coming into the area.
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  #75  
Old Posted May 16, 2017, 2:47 AM
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The Target is at Doby, right? That's what I'm recalling anyway. So that serves UT/West Campus, obviously, but could also benefit those on the northern/western part of downtown. Another Target here or over at Plaza Saltillo would be great to serve other areas, including East Austin.
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  #76  
Old Posted May 16, 2017, 3:48 AM
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The Target is at Doby, right? That's what I'm recalling anyway. So that serves UT/West Campus, obviously, but could also benefit those on the northern/western part of downtown. Another Target here or over at Plaza Saltillo would be great to serve other areas, including East Austin.
yep... and yep!
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  #77  
Old Posted Yesterday, 7:06 PM
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  #78  
Old Posted Yesterday, 8:31 PM
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WOW! Me likey!!!
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San Antonio (City): 1,469,845 +10.73% - '10-'15 | San Antonio MSA (8 counties): 2,429,609 +13.40% - '10-'16
AUS-SAT "CSA" (13 counties): 4,486,014 +16.25% - '10-'16 | *SRC: US Census*

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  #79  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:13 PM
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Another example of how a CVC forced a great thin angle. !
I like!
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  #80  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:06 PM
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That's a great park on the podium as well.
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