HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Toronto

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #81  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 1:18 AM
haljackey's Avatar
haljackey haljackey is offline
User Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 2,293
The problem I have with burying a LRT line underground is a huge loss of potential for a huge sum of money.

Does anyone know if the Eglinton LRT underground line is designed for a future conversion to Subways (RT)? If so then it makes a little more sense, but if you're going through the trouble of putting it underground you may as well just make it a subway now.

I know a bit about Transit City and to me it makes sense to keep Eglinton mostly above ground for two reasons.
1. Cost. With Toronto and Ontario both cash-strapped, going with surface LRT means more funding is available for other projects like the Finch LRT line and extending the Shepard Subway.
2. There's right of way. The LRT line can simply run in the old right of way reserved for the canceled (Richview?) expressway. It won't take up any additional room or travel lanes, the one section where it would is planned to go underground anyway.

End rant. At least Toronto has several plans for their transit... I live in a town where buses come every 30 mins on average and there's not even a vision for LRT.
__________________
My Twitter

My Simcity Stuff
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #82  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 1:21 AM
Wharn's Avatar
Wharn Wharn is offline
Torontonian Refugee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oxy County
Posts: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis1 View Post
It got passed. Rob is mad but who cares!!
What exactly did that have to do with miketoronto's points? You've still failed to address the issues he raised.

Hopefully something good will come out of this mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haljackey View Post
End rant. At least Toronto has several plans for their transit... I live in a town where buses come every 30 mins on average and there's not even a vision for LRT.
I think we as Londoners can forget about LRT if council's attitude doesn't change. Just look at how long it took to get a rail overpass at Hale and Trafalgar. Something like a bridge linking Gainsborough and Windermere Roads over Medway Creek would turn into a year-long battle. A city-wide LRT plan? Don't even touch that with a 39 and a half foot pole.

Last edited by Wharn; Feb 9, 2012 at 1:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 1:43 AM
66days 66days is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 22
Madrid has received billions from the Spanish government and the EU to build their transportation system. Toronto, on the other hand, has been starved of funds and suffered from lack of investment from the federal government for decades.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 2:40 AM
haljackey's Avatar
haljackey haljackey is offline
User Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 2,293
So Toronto actually did something good transit-related today. They approved multiple proposals and changed others to get several new subway, rapid transit and light rail lines built, many of them in time for the 2015 Pan-Am games. Something like 13-18 billion dollars in total.

Here is a list of the project that are going to be built or are already under construction.

Air Rail link: http://media.thestar.topscms.com/ima...6724e87b5.jpeg

Eglinton Crosstown: http://www.toronto.ca/involved/proje...rt/pdf/map.pdf

Shepard Subway extension (the purple line in this image): http://ttcmultiplat.files.wordpress...._extension.jpg

Spadina subway extension: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...RTmap-2007.svg

Finch LRT: http://www3.ttc.ca/PDF/About_the_TTC...e_diagram1.pdf

Scarborough RT retrofit/extension: http://www.toronto.ca/involved/proje...it/pdf/map.pdf

...and an extension of the Yonge subway and other LRT routes are also planned but not yet approved.
__________________
My Twitter

My Simcity Stuff
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 3:12 AM
dennis1 dennis1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
And that is why transit will fail, if we have people talking like this.

The alternative is people will just drive. Don't accommodate that guy on Islington, and you think he will care? No, he will just hop in a car.
And in a city the size of Toronto, having people living 15 KM from the city centre is not far out in the North American context.
Why will transit fail? Because people expect to be subsidized for living on the
periphery? The outer region of the City is not dense eoungh for subways. A buried Eglinton east line to Kennedy will lose money and then everyone is complaing that TTC is losing (even more) money. People cannot have it both ways.

- Fair Wharn?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 12:07 PM
Tony's Avatar
Tony Tony is offline
Super Moderator / Sr. Committee
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 5,986
__________________
Hunan, China 1 | Hunan, China 2 | Hong Kong | NYC 2 | NYC 1 | Florence | Venice | Rome | London | Paris


Flickr®
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 12:14 PM
Tony's Avatar
Tony Tony is offline
Super Moderator / Sr. Committee
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 5,986
^ granted the above doesn't show an Eglinton Subway (which would have used the same streetcars for TC, but simply put underground) The FACT is, we can either spend our FINITE amount of money we are given now to serve 630,000 residents OR only the residents that live along the Eglinton line and NOTHING ELSE - INCLUDING, NO OTHER SUBWAY EXTENSIONS - NO RT replacement, NO Sheppard Ext.

What are we suppose to do? Blow all the money on the so-called "right way" to do things by building a single subway line along Eglinton then sit and pray for the next 10-20 years hoping we get more money to do more? Or do we use the money in a wiser way and serve as many residents as possible now? (then maybe pray we can get some more money in the next 10-20 years to improve some of the lines if needed)
__________________
Hunan, China 1 | Hunan, China 2 | Hong Kong | NYC 2 | NYC 1 | Florence | Venice | Rome | London | Paris


Flickr®
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 2:55 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Architect View Post
The Eglinton crosstown more than accounts for future growth, if you read anything about it you would know that. The LRT is exactly what is needed there, anything more would have been a waste of money. There have been many studies While we're wasting money on the Sheppard stubway why don't we build a subway on Trafalgar road in Oakville as well? I'm just glad the proper transit plan is back and Finch gets an LRT again like they deserved!
I hope you are going to be the first one to rely on these LRT lines architect, and not hop in your car??????? Oh wait you probably won't because you won't be willing to sit on an LRT for a 45 minute trip which only takes 10 minutes by car.

By the way, studies can be made to show what you want. Funny how studies in the 80's supported subways. You build for the demand you. Of course LRT is going to handle projected loads, because hardly anyone is attracted to it. When the LRT on Eglinton was switched to a fully grade separated system, ridership projections skyrocketed.

Really, this building for meeting present needs is total nonsense. If we did this during the time Toronto was building subways, we would not even have a subway under Yonge Street today.

Some stats:

FINCH WEST LRT
23.4 km
Projected to carry 68,000 riders a day.
Current ridership on buses 35,000 riders a day.
New ridership a day: 33,000


The Eglinton - Scarborough Crosstown LRT Subway
25 KM of fully grade separated transit
Projected to carry 279,000 riders a day. Over 205,000 to be new riders.

Projected ridership for the Eglinton - Scarborough Crosstown would likely be much higher than projections, given Toronto's success with rapid transit ridership.


SHEPPARD SUBWAY
6.5 km
Daily ridership: 45,000
Daily Ridership on bus services between Yonge and Don Mills, before the subway opened: 12,000
New ridership a day: 33,000

Sheppard LRT
14 km
Projected daily ridership: 47,000
Current ridership on bus service in the corridor: 30,000
New ridership a day: 17,000

Note that the Sheppard LRT is over double the length of the Sheppard subway.


Like my friend says. Toronto transit advocates who are in the Church of LRT are seriously hurting Toronto and setting us back decades in the transit department. We are now about to spend $8 billion on a plan that gives people a slightly nicer seat to sit on, yet no other advantages. Commute times will stay the same, and people will actually be getting less frequent service than the current buses.
Great way to spend $8 billion.

What is going to happen is in 25 years everyone is going to say we made a big mistake. Just like what happened with the SRT.
__________________
Miketoronto
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #89  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 4:38 PM
Tony's Avatar
Tony Tony is offline
Super Moderator / Sr. Committee
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 5,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
Some stats:

FINCH WEST LRT
23.4 km
Projected to carry 68,000 riders a day.
Current ridership on buses 35,000 riders a day.
New ridership a day: 33,000


The Eglinton - Scarborough Crosstown LRT Subway
25 KM of fully grade separated transit
Projected to carry 279,000 riders a day. Over 205,000 to be new riders.

Projected ridership for the Eglinton - Scarborough Crosstown would likely be much higher than projections, given Toronto's success with rapid transit ridership.


SHEPPARD SUBWAY
6.5 km
Daily ridership: 45,000
Daily Ridership on bus services between Yonge and Don Mills, before the subway opened: 12,000
New ridership a day: 33,000

Sheppard LRT
14 km
Projected daily ridership: 47,000
Current ridership on bus service in the corridor: 30,000
New ridership a day: 17,000

CANCELED PROJECTS IN RED

There, fixed it for you if we went with the Rob Ford option of using up all the money on one project.


TRANSIT CITY as now endorsed by Council (AGAIN) offers the following with the money already committed:

Eglinton Crosstown LRT (combined above & below grade)
Projected to carry 145,205 riders a day. (as compared with your 279,000 stat if it were completely buried.

Sheppard East LRT
Projected daily ridership: 47,000

Finch West LRT
Projected to carry 51,000 riders a day from Humber College to Keele, 37,500 from Keele to Yonge.

Scarborough RT Upgrade
Badly needed upgrade of RT to LRT Route with Extension to Markham Road or Malvern Town Centre. (under Ford's "blow it all on one line plan", there would be no extension)
__________________
Hunan, China 1 | Hunan, China 2 | Hong Kong | NYC 2 | NYC 1 | Florence | Venice | Rome | London | Paris


Flickr®
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 5:39 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,979
This map is a very skewed view of looking at things. All these people are already served by local transit.

A single rapid transit line regardless of the corridor can serve more people than just who live along it.

With this thinking the Bloor-Danforth subway would not be serving many people. But in fact it serves a hell of a lot of people, because most Scarborough residents rely on it to commute downtown, etc.

A rapid transit line is not just about who lives 500 meters from it. So more Toronto people would probably be served by one well placed rapid transit line, then all these LRT lines which just duplicate service that is already provided by buses.

What if we produced this map when the Yonge subway was being built. We could have built way more LRT lines for the cost of the subway.

Lets scrap Transit City LRT all together. We could get more bang for our buck doing buses instead. That last comment shows why this map is skewed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
__________________
Miketoronto
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 5:43 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,979
So the Transit City plan as it stands now is going to have vastly more length then just the Eglinton Crosstown. But it is going to carry the same or less amount of people than just an Eglinton Crosstown line would have carried.

Also, ridership on Eglinton has basically been cut in half by going with median LRT.

Hmmmmm what does that tell people? Easy. The LRT plan is not attracting people to transit

The FINCH WEST LRT figures are way off. There is no way it is going to carry that many people, if the original numbers were only 68,000.

Do people think that transit riders and Toronto residents are stupid? People are not going to be flocking to a transit line that offers basically no advantage over the current bus. And that is why the Eglinton line would carry so few riders if it went into median LRT. Because the ridership gains would basically be coming only from the underground portion.

$8 billion down the drain.

It is about quality, not quantity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
CANCELED PROJECTS IN RED

There, fixed it for you if we went with the Rob Ford option of using up all the money on one project.


TRANSIT CITY as now endorsed by Council (AGAIN) offers the following with the money already committed:

Eglinton Crosstown LRT (combined above & below grade)
Projected to carry 145,205 riders a day. (as compared with your 279,000 stat if it were completely buried.

Sheppard East LRT
Projected daily ridership: 47,000

Finch West LRT
Projected to carry 51,000 riders a day from Humber College to Keele, 37,500 from Keele to Yonge.

Scarborough RT Upgrade
Badly needed upgrade of RT to LRT Route with Extension to Markham Road or Malvern Town Centre. (under Ford's "blow it all on one line plan", there would be no extension)
__________________
Miketoronto
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #92  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 6:17 PM
Wharn's Avatar
Wharn Wharn is offline
Torontonian Refugee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oxy County
Posts: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis1 View Post
Why will transit fail? Because people expect to be subsidized for living on the
periphery? The outer region of the City is not dense eoungh for subways. A buried Eglinton east line to Kennedy will lose money and then everyone is complaing that TTC is losing (even more) money. People cannot have it both ways.

- Fair Wharn?
Not quite. You want to talk about choice, so let's talk about choice. If you do nothing to bring rapid transit to the suburbs, property values along the current "core" lines will rise disproportionately relative to everything else and people who cannot afford to live there will eventually be forced to live in the periphery. Which effectively rewards the richest members of society and punishes the poorer ones, which is what I thought you left-wingers were trying to avoid in the first place. If you're looking to create ghettos like Winnipeg's North, then ignoring transit is a great place to start.

It's like saying "Fuck Sudbury, I don't want Toronto subisidizing the Highway 400 extension". Or "Fuck Montreal, why should I have to pay to repair the Champlain Bridge?" Attitudes like that are selfish and economically damaging in the aggregate. By ignoring the outlying areas you are imposing a huge implicit cost on the city by limiting most activity and development to a few key corridors and ignoring the high marginal returns to transit in areas with comparatively less development. I suspect part of the reason why the downtowners oppose an Eglinton subway is because they don't want to realize a relative decrease in property values.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 6:39 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,979
Quote:
Why will transit fail? Because people expect to be subsidized for living on the
periphery? The outer region of the City is not dense eoungh for subways. A buried Eglinton east line to Kennedy will lose money and then everyone is complaing that TTC is losing (even more) money. People cannot have it both ways.

- Fair Wharn?
The outskirts of Toronto are not that far out, and are a natural extension of city growth. Not everyone can fit into the old City of Toronto.

And in addition, the density argument is really getting old. Transit is a success in Toronto, because our service does not discriminate based on density, and provides a similar level of service across the city, regardless of density.

Toronto's transit success stems from this and the fact that suburbanites got onto transit, when they were abandoning it in most other North American cities.

Sounds like you need to read the history of Toronto's transit a little.

If Toronto's suburbs can't support suburbs, then why are some of the busiest sections of the subway in the suburbs? Because Toronto's transit network works on the network effect, where buses extend the catchment area of the subways. This has created a very well used rapid transit network, regardless of if in the inner city or the suburbs.

In fact it can be said that it is the suburbs that keep Toronto's rapid transit system performing at such a high level. Ride the Yonge subway at 10pm at night, and it is standing room only. But almost all the riders are destined to the suburban stations. It is actually shocking how little riders get on and off at many of the inner city stations.

So the argument against the suburbs and the density arguments just don't wash.
If you pull out those arguments, then transit is never going to succeed.

And I will close with the fact that inner city bus and streetcar routes tend to have the same or worse cost recovery as the suburban bus routes.
So the inner city is no less subsidized than the suburbs.

Keep up this attitude and our traffic will just keep getting worse, as people continue to flock to their cars. Transit either rises to the challenge or loses out.
__________________
Miketoronto
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 7:13 PM
nname nname is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
So the Transit City plan as it stands now is going to have vastly more length then just the Eglinton Crosstown. But it is going to carry the same or less amount of people than just an Eglinton Crosstown line would have carried.
I don't think many people actually consider the cost of running the line...

More length and more line = higher cost
Carry same amount of people = same revenue
Higher cost + same revenue = lower recovery and more subsidy
More subsidy = more funding, higher fare, or cut service elsewhere

Running a single, high capacity, and better utilized line is actually "much cheaper" than running 3 lower capacity lines. From the ridership projection of the underground cross-town line, it seems like TTC would be able to gain profit, or at least very close to when running the line. Whereas the projection for Transit City LRT, there's no way it would be close to revenue neutral, or even match the recovery of the bus routes they'll replace (unless someone claim running a LRT line would cost 1/2 to 1/3 compared to running a street car line).

Seems like Vancouver does a better job in projecting the operating cost for rapid transit projects. The contract for Canada Line was set so that the subsidy for running the line, including repaying the 750M private sector contribution, would be no more than the subsidy for the bus routes the line replaced after year 3 (in fact, we achieved that in just 1 year). The operating subsidy for running Evergreen Line (~60M) between 2016 and 2026 was already budgeted last year, before construction even begin.

In the case for Toronto, they're just putting everything aside and worry about it later. It would be interesting to see what'll happen when the lines open...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 8:26 PM
Tony's Avatar
Tony Tony is offline
Super Moderator / Sr. Committee
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 5,986
__________________
Hunan, China 1 | Hunan, China 2 | Hong Kong | NYC 2 | NYC 1 | Florence | Venice | Rome | London | Paris


Flickr®
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 8:44 PM
Tony's Avatar
Tony Tony is offline
Super Moderator / Sr. Committee
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 5,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
Do people think that transit riders and Toronto residents are stupid? People are not going to be flocking to a transit line that offers basically no advantage over the current bus.
Actually they do. A dedicated ROW LRT is far superior to a bus, in comfort and time saving. Try it sometime. Given the choice, would you rather be living a 5 minute walk to a LRT line or a Bus Stop?

no comment on the stupidity of Torontonians... just look at who's the mayor.
__________________
Hunan, China 1 | Hunan, China 2 | Hong Kong | NYC 2 | NYC 1 | Florence | Venice | Rome | London | Paris


Flickr®
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 9:18 PM
Wharn's Avatar
Wharn Wharn is offline
Torontonian Refugee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oxy County
Posts: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
lol, the article is quoting the study by Forum Research - the question they asked being:

"Do you think that the Scarborough section of the Eglinton light rail transit line should be built above ground in its own right of way in the middle of the road like the St. Clair streetcar, or should it be built below ground like a subway? If it was built above-ground, Eglinton Avenue would be reduced to four lanes in order to accommodate the transit line right of way.'"

Pretty blatant example of "push-polling".

With the exception of the St. Clair part, everything in that is true. I will admit that the Eglinton line would be better than the St. Clair disaster since it would have fewer stops, but has anyone ever bothered to see how close together the Scarberian concessions are? They're all about 850-1000 metres apart. That's a lot of major intersections to deal with, guaranteed that is going to slow it down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Transit City serves a whole lot more people than the Ford plan, even if a few thousand of them along the outer stretches of Eglinton are going to have to suffer through marginally longer commutes.
This is the problem with government. All you have to do is add 15 minutes to a person's commute each way every day, and by the end of the week they've lost 2.5 hours in productivity. Assuming a 50-week year, that's 125 lost hours... or about 5 days of your life wasted on the commute. If you do this to enough people the economic losses will add up to a very substantial amount. Why do you think people pay good money to take the 407 vs. spending an extra half-hour to take Highway 7?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Architect View Post
No, they really won't. What they'd regret is letting the lunatic buffoon and his brother put the city back a decade.
I remember seeing a very amusing cartoon from around 1911, with an anthropomorphized streetcar looking into a tube, and a politician telling him that there wasn't "any need" for such a high-cost system. Strangely applicable to today.

Anyways, if we're going to talk about buffoons who set transit back 10 years, why don't we discuss Miller's cancellation of the previous plan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Architect View Post
The Eglinton crosstown more than accounts for future growth, if you read anything about it you would know that. The LRT is exactly what is needed there, anything more would have been a waste of money. There have been many studies on this, and no matter how much you try to stuff the Ford-esque nonsense about "subway subway subway or nothing", it doesn't make it right.
I've seen some figures that "account" for future growth along current trends, but none that account for potential shifts in demographics, or that weigh the cost of peoples' time or the opportunity costs of forgone large-scale developments that often accompany transit lines. If you could provide me with documents that discuss these factors, I would love to read them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Architect View Post
It is underground in the right areas and aboveground in the right areas. It also has the ability to be easily turned into a subway when the need arises in 100 years or so. While we're wasting money on the Sheppard stubway why don't we build a subway on Trafalgar road in Oakville as well?
Again, I don't think Sheppard was a waste of money at all. The whole street has completely transformed in the past decade with lots of dense, transit-oriented development. Looking at old photos my dad took of it in the late 1990s, it's almost unrecognizable in some spots. Anyways, if traffic patterns warranted a subway along Trafalgar, I'd say go for it. The government exists only to correct for externalities, so by all means, build one if there are massive benefits to be had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Hopefully this loss is a backbreaker for the Frauds and proof that they have no hold on the council, and the city and its politicians won't put up with their bullshit "my way or the highway" dictator crap.
Dictator? Rubbish. Even the ILO has more power than the Ford brothers could ever dream of. They're just two votes, and the council decision proved that.


NOW CAN WE PLEASE MOVE THIS INTO THE TORONTO LOCAL??

Last edited by Wharn; Feb 9, 2012 at 9:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #98  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 9:34 PM
Wharn's Avatar
Wharn Wharn is offline
Torontonian Refugee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Oxy County
Posts: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
Actually they do. A dedicated ROW LRT is far superior to a bus, in comfort and time saving. Try it sometime. Given the choice, would you rather be living a 5 minute walk to a LRT line or a Bus Stop?
miketoronto, as much as I love you, and as much as I agree with all your arguments, Tony is right.

The bus is pretty much rock bottom. Nothing short of a donkey cart could possibly be shittier, so the only way to go is up. The question is, how much is the upgrade worth?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #99  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 10:11 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wharn View Post
miketoronto, as much as I love you, and as much as I agree with all your arguments, Tony is right.

The bus is pretty much rock bottom. Nothing short of a donkey cart could possibly be shittier, so the only way to go is up. The question is, how much is the upgrade worth?
Sure riding on a larger train in its own lane is nice. But its not worth the cost of not building true rapid transit, which this city desperately needs.

The Sheppard East bus for example operates pretty well. They have the local service, and they have the ROCKET service which provides limited stop service.
Transit City.
If we are going to spend money, then it should be real rapid transit.
__________________
Miketoronto
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #100  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2012, 10:13 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
Tony. I can't take a report seriously that claims the Bloor-Danforth subway is under-used. These people have obviously never ridden the subway if they claim that stupid fact.

They also claim an underground Eglinton line competes with the Bloor-Danforth subway. Ummmm, the Bloor-Subway is beyond capacity. This is like claiming that a DRL subway should not be built because it competes with the Yonge subway.

Unbelievable is all I can say.
__________________
Miketoronto
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Toronto
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:33 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.