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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2012, 2:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shevchenko View Post
Once everything in this render has been built, All Toronto needs is three to four 300m+ towers and we'll have surpassed Chicago. Great post, thanks!
Toronto overtake Chicago? That's never going to happen.


Buildings Over 500ft (Roof Height)


Built
Chicago: 100
Toronto: 23

U/C
Chicago: 1
Toronto: 18

Proposed:
Chicago: 12
Toronto: 39



So like I said, it will never happen. Once the Chicago economy recovers, a mass amount of projects will once again mobilize and new proposals will come to the table.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 3:59 AM
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Looks like the gap will be substantially narrowed however. I know I'd never say 'never.' This assumes that Chicago will hold serve. I don't.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 4:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hed Kandi View Post
Toronto overtake Chicago? That's never going to happen.


Buildings Over 500ft (Roof Height)


Built
Chicago: 100
Toronto: 23

U/C
Chicago: 1
Toronto: 18

Proposed:
Chicago: 12
Toronto: 39



So like I said, it will never happen. Once the Chicago economy recovers, a mass amount of projects will once again mobilize and new proposals will come to the table.
If it (along with the rest of America's economy) ever recovers...

In the early 20th century, people had hoped that Toronto would one day become the equal to cites like Cleveland or Detroit. We all know how that turned out.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 5:11 AM
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HERE HERE! Totally agreed Ramako.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 5:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayCortese View Post
I have an old (2009) render of the skyline, but still kind of works for except for 50 Bloor (Holt Renfrew Tower) and 90 Harbour residensial are not included, and it shows the RBC Centre being built.

^
Toronto 2020

Sites:
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthr...-1-Bloor/page2

or...

http://www.upside-down.ca/sdphotos/10york.jpg
Would be AMAZING if someone could update this!
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 5:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale View Post
Looks like the gap will be substantially narrowed however. I know I'd never say 'never.' This assumes that Chicago will hold serve. I don't.
What does "hold serve" mean?
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 7:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
What does "hold serve" mean?
In tennis if you hold serve you keep pace with your opponent. He's arguing that there's no guarantee that Chicago can match Toronto is new construction.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 7:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Hed Kandi View Post
Toronto overtake Chicago? That's never going to happen.
Not only is it just a matter of time, but it will likely happen within the next 20 years. By some metrics, Toronto's already over taken/about to over take Chicago: density, city population, prominence around the world, as a centre of world immigration, cultural industries, manufacturing, international banking, capital markets, etc.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 7:57 AM
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Chicago seems to have an edge on building office space, but Toronto has the edge on residential. Hard to say how it'll play out really. I definitely think the deciding factor will be in the upper echelons. Neither city is going to win by having more 500 footers. It will be very tall towers, and Toronto would need something at least 375m.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 8:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Chicago seems to have an edge on building office space, but Toronto has the edge on residential. Hard to say how it'll play out really. I definitely think the deciding factor will be in the upper echelons. Neither city is going to win by having more 500 footers. It will be very tall towers, and Toronto would need something at least 375m.
Agree. Those people stating that Toronto will never surpass Chicago seem to have their heads so deeply planted in the ground that they're going to be in shock when it actually happens. Besides, it's not just about how many 150 m buildings you have. Chicago is known as a big powerful famous city in the US (and to a lesser Canada), but around the world, not so much. Smaller cities like Sydney, Toronto, Madrid, etc. are better known and enjoy far more recognition as they're the face of their respective nations.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 9:34 AM
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Toronto's more globally known than Chicago? Ehh I'd argue that. Chicago's been the setting of enough famous events and films to make it more famous as a city.

You don't see Chicago standing in as a filming location for Toronto.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 11:58 AM
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I don't disagree however, Hollywood caters to 300 million people that largely suck at world geography.
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52 built and 25 under construction for a total of 77 towers over 150 metres.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Chicago seems to have an edge on building office space, but Toronto has the edge on residential. Hard to say how it'll play out really. I definitely think the deciding factor will be in the upper echelons. Neither city is going to win by having more 500 footers. It will be very tall towers, and Toronto would need something at least 375m.

I wouldn't say Toronto has the edge on residential when you can build a 25 storey condo tower with 100 units and 4.5 metre slab to slab height on a 10 storey parking podium over a 50 storey building with 9 foot ceilings and 500 units.

A supertall may help Toronto but, I don't see it as a deciding factor when even in Chicago they are so few and far between.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
I don't disagree however, Hollywood caters to 300 million people that largely suck at world geography.
Well lets be real, Hollywood caters to about 3 billion people...

Anyway I think one day Toronto will surpass Chicago in most metrics as countries centralize their key business operations Chicago will be left behind as New York will see the lions share. The same phenomenon will help Toronto continue its torrid growth.

Where I do think people are wrong is their timeline. I dont see Chicago just kicking over any time soon, it is in line for another boom cycle and all of a sudden Toronto isn't going to look like it's going to steam roll past it any time soon. This is going to be a long and interesting race, but in the long run my money is on Toronto.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 2:57 PM
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On a side note, isn't it amazing that Toronto, a great world city in and of itself, is within a two hour flight of so many of the other great world cities: New York, Chicago, Montreal, Boston, not to mention Philadelphia, Washington, Quebec City, Ottawa, etc. I used to envy Europeans for having such easy access to other major world cities, often a short train ride away, but the Great Lakes/northeast region can definitely go toe-to-toe with almost any part of Europe on that front. The region is absolutely loaded with amazing cities.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Well lets be real, Hollywood caters to about 3 billion people...
perhaps but, it doesn't negate the fact it is the 300 million that are geographically challenged and those are the people the investor care most about.

Quote:
Anyway I think one day Toronto will surpass Chicago in most metrics as countries centralize their key business operations Chicago will be left behind as New York will see the lions share. The same phenomenon will help Toronto continue its torrid growth.
Toronto may surpass Chicago as Americans continue to flee to the southern states, however the difference in population between countries is so vast that a major regional centre in the US is more than sufficient to compete with Toronto for major head offices. I'dalso be concerned with our key business as they are taking full advantage of the financial situation in the states and become less and less Canadian. How long until they more their entire international operations south of the border? I'm aware at two banks with key operations here that are already reporting there. Where's the famous Manulife 1000 footer now that they aquired John Hancock. Surely they will move operations here.
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52 built and 25 under construction for a total of 77 towers over 150 metres.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2012, 4:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
I wouldn't say Toronto has the edge on residential when you can build a 25 storey condo tower with 100 units and 4.5 metre slab to slab height on a 10 storey parking podium over a 50 storey building with 9 foot ceilings and 500 units.
So you're saying that residential buildings in Chicago tend to be a lot taller relative to their residential density than in Toronto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
A supertall may help Toronto but, I don't see it as a deciding factor when even in Chicago they are so few and far between.
They are few and far between, but they make the skyline IMO. Without them, the skyline is just a large, but fairly undefined mass of buildings within a similar height range, which is the case for several other skylines around the world. The few supertalls shoot up so far above everything around them that they appear as powerful and dramatic focal points making the skyline jagged and aggressive.

Remember than when talking skyline, I'm talking actual skyline, not the cities' appearance from street level. In terms of street level impressiveness, Chicago is a lot farther ahead and will be much harder to catch due to the incredible historical layers and the assortment of midrise and highrise buildings that wouldn't even be considered skyscrapers by today's standards.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2012, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
Would be AMAZING if someone could update this!
I've tried, its extremely difficult. But I'm glad this thread was reborn (hypothetically speaking, (I think))
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  #39  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2012, 8:00 PM
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here is my attempt at that angle with my model .... not the same i know, but still.

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  #40  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2012, 10:33 PM
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Great stuff as always insertnamehere.
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