HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted May 22, 2012, 7:18 PM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 6,985
SAN FRANCISCO | Golden State Warriors Arena

Warriors to build new arena, move back to S.F.

SFGate.com
Phillip Matier, Andrew Ross
Tuesday, May 22, 2012


Quote:
The Golden State Warriors are jumping across the bay, with plans for a privately financed, $500 million waterfront arena that would allow the team to play its home games in San Francisco for the first time in more than four decades.

The NBA franchise would leave Oakland for a 17,000- to 19,000-seat arena that would be built on Piers 30-32 near the foot of the Bay Bridge, a short walk from downtown, and open in time for the 2017-18 season.

"It is going to happen - let there be no doubt," Warriors co-owner Joe Lacob said Monday.










Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted May 22, 2012, 7:28 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 14,126
How can you build an arena on top of a pier?

I mean, it could be done, but you would need a massively reinforced new pier, and you certainly couldn't do it for $500 million. A conventional urban arena on "dry land" costs upwards of a billion.

It would be very cool if it could be done, but I would guess this would cost bare minimum $1.5 billion in 2012 dollars when all is said and done. That's serious cash, but they're VC guys, so maybe they don't mind it.

The Barclays Center in Brooklyn costs a little over $1 billion, and has no radical engineering issues. The MSG renovation in Manhattan (which is really only a temporary stopgap until they eventually relocate) will cost nearly $1 billion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted May 22, 2012, 7:43 PM
Xelebes's Avatar
Xelebes Xelebes is online now
Sawmill Billowtoker
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rockin' in Edmonton
Posts: 12,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
How can you build an arena on top of a pier?

I mean, it could be done, but you would need a massively reinforced new pier, and you certainly couldn't do it for $500 million. A conventional urban arena on "dry land" costs upwards of a billion.

It would be very cool if it could be done, but I would guess this would cost bare minimum $1.5 billion in 2012 dollars when all is said and done. That's serious cash, but they're VC guys, so maybe they don't mind it.

The Barclays Center in Brooklyn costs a little over $1 billion, and has no radical engineering issues. The MSG renovation in Manhattan (which is really only a temporary stopgap until they eventually relocate) will cost nearly $1 billion.
Edmonton is building a top-of-the-line arena for less than 500 million. Our cost of labour is likely higher and spottier than in SF.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted May 22, 2012, 7:48 PM
Xelebes's Avatar
Xelebes Xelebes is online now
Sawmill Billowtoker
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rockin' in Edmonton
Posts: 12,455
I moved the thread since the discussion has turned rather quickly to only the arena. You can link to a new thread about only the relocation of the Golden State Warriors in the Skybar.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted May 22, 2012, 8:08 PM
mt_climber13 mt_climber13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
Our cost of labour is likely higher and spottier than in SF.
And what would make you say that?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted May 22, 2012, 8:17 PM
fishrose's Avatar
fishrose fishrose is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Midtown Detroit
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
How can you build an arena on top of a pier?

I mean, it could be done, but you would need a massively reinforced new pier, and you certainly couldn't do it for $500 million. A conventional urban arena on "dry land" costs upwards of a billion.

It would be very cool if it could be done, but I would guess this would cost bare minimum $1.5 billion in 2012 dollars when all is said and done. That's serious cash, but they're VC guys, so maybe they don't mind it.

The Barclays Center in Brooklyn costs a little over $1 billion, and has no radical engineering issues. The MSG renovation in Manhattan (which is really only a temporary stopgap until they eventually relocate) will cost nearly $1 billion.
There have been several new arenas constructed within the last 10 years that cost FAR less than $1.5 billion in 2012 dollars.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted May 22, 2012, 8:19 PM
Xelebes's Avatar
Xelebes Xelebes is online now
Sawmill Billowtoker
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rockin' in Edmonton
Posts: 12,455
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakamesalad View Post
And what would make you say that?
Edmonton has major trade shortages, most of it tied up in multi-billion dollar upgrader projects and work in Fort McMurray. Wages typically start 35 dollars an hour on these projects so they have quite the draw.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted May 22, 2012, 8:21 PM
spyguy's Avatar
spyguy spyguy is offline
THAT Guy
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,594
A conventional basketball arena does not cost a billion dollars. Amway Center in Orlando is only two years old and was less than $500 million.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 12:03 AM
NOPA NOPA is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New York City
Posts: 261
I'm really excited this is happening! It helps take the sting out of the 49er's move, and a basketball arena is much better for the city in general because it opens up a number of entertainment options that the city didn't previously have (just imagine the Madonna concerts here!).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 1:07 AM
Gordo's Avatar
Gordo Gordo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, WA/San Francisco, CA/Jackson Hole, WY
Posts: 4,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelebes View Post
Edmonton has major trade shortages, most of it tied up in multi-billion dollar upgrader projects and work in Fort McMurray. Wages typically start 35 dollars an hour on these projects so they have quite the draw.
Average construction labor in the Bay Area is probably quite a bit more than that for a project like this (in other words, not a project that can use undocumented labor). Being on state-owned port property they'll likely have to use all union labor, which could quickly rise to double that or more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishrose View Post
There have been several new arenas constructed within the last 10 years that cost FAR less than $1.5 billion in 2012 dollars.
None of those arenas were built on a 100 year old rotting pier in a seismic zone on the shore of one of the most expensive urban centers in the country though. They've still got multiple years of lawsuits to get through (an arena blocking some views of the Bay? Dozens will be filed, many by folks with very, VERY deep pockets).

All of that said, I like this idea and location - hope it happens. I'm just skeptical at this point.

Last edited by Gordo; May 23, 2012 at 1:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 1:22 AM
minesweeper minesweeper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 586
Those renderings look much better than I expected. It’s a spectacular location for an arena. Still, even with the entire SF political machinery behind the project, it’s going to be an uphill battle to get all the approvals.

I imagine the Warriors will have to grease the wheels a bit to get their approvals. Tossing some money to affordable housing, public transportation, wetlands restoration, etc. will probably be necessary to get a project like this approved.

FYI, the Warriors have posted ridiculously high resolution images of those drawings online (images are 25-40 MB each):

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.ele...ing1_HiRes.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.ele...ing2_HiRes.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.ele...ing3_HiRes.jpg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.ele...ing4_HiRes.jpg
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 5:51 AM
Rail>Auto's Avatar
Rail>Auto Rail>Auto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 497
I love this concept and am glad the Warriors are moving back to SF and are picking a bay view location.

My only complaint is the renderings. The Warriors kept druming it up like it was going to be architecturally significant. Although it has a nice open glass view on the one side, this looks to be a basic arena that would be in the lower tier of the NBA if it weren't on the pier. I hope these are just basic outlines/ place holders for a better design.

Overall, great work. What will happen to Oracle Arena after 2017? Will the Warriors give up the territorial rights to Oakland if another team were to want to relocate there?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 11:50 AM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 6,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rail>Auto View Post
What will happen to Oracle Arena after 2017? Will the Warriors give up the territorial rights to Oakland if another team were to want to relocate there?
Will another team be interested in relocating to Oakland, particularly when other sports franchises appear to be leaving? And if there are any available NBA teams, might they head up the coast to Seattle? Or maybe to the nice new arena in Kansas City? Inland Empire? I'm guessing the Warriors wouldn't be particularly interested in any Bay area competition either.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 1:22 PM
OhioGuy OhioGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 6,985
Warriors face many hurdles in building S.F. arena

SFGate.com
Heather Knight,John Coté
Wednesday, May 23, 2012


Quote:
It's yet to be seen whether this particular production will be a feel-good story, as the Warriors and city officials pledge, or a heartbreaker like so many previous efforts to develop the 13-acre patch of crumbling concrete and pilings just south of the Bay Bridge.

Lack of money and frustrations with the politics of San Francisco have sunk at least five previous efforts, some with major players behind them like Oracle billionaire Larry Ellison, who backed out of a plan this year to build on the piers as part of the America's Cup sailing race deal.
Quote:
The Port of San Francisco estimates the piers will be condemned in 10 years if not dramatically overhauled, but that's exactly what the Warriors have in mind to support their new stadium: a $75 million to $100 million repair job on the pilings supporting the piers and a brand new surface on top of it.

An iconic, high-tech arena, retail center, restaurants, parking garage and public park space is estimated to cost an additional $500 million - all to be privately financed except for the handover of the piers and an adjoining lot across the Embarcadero from the city to the team on long-term leases. The combined value of those properties - with Piers 30-32 in usable condition - was about $55 million, according to city officials. But in its current state, the piers have a negative value, they said.

Ellison's loss may prove beneficial to the Warriors because the team now has access to the Oracle co-founder's extensive engineering studies done on Piers 30-32, which were provided to the port, and to thousands of pages of public documents produced last year for the environmental impact review of the America's Cup regatta that include analyses of the piers' physical condition, animal species in the water and traffic issues. Guber and Warriors co-owner Joe Lacob say they're fully aware of the condition of the piers and will soon be putting out a bid to fix them.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted May 23, 2012, 1:36 PM
topota topota is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 11
fantastic that this project would be done, maybe some Olympic games in the future could be in the city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted May 25, 2012, 4:32 PM
plinko's Avatar
plinko plinko is offline
them bones
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Barbara adjacent
Posts: 6,845
Given the location, I'd like to see something a bit more iconic in the roof shape, but otherwise a great project in terms of infrastructure. They should have game day ferries as well from other piers and east bay locations.

...not that I actually believe that this will get built in the next 10 years...
__________________
Even if you are 1 in a million, there are still 7,000 people just like you...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted May 25, 2012, 5:45 PM
1977's Avatar
1977 1977 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by plinko View Post
Given the location, I'd like to see something a bit more iconic in the roof shape, but otherwise a great project in terms of infrastructure. They should have game day ferries as well from other piers and east bay locations.

...not that I actually believe that this will get built in the next 10 years...
This is more of a massing study to show how it relates to the pier and the city in general. I don't think an architect has even been hired, so there should be a lot of changes in the coming years.

Also, I heard on the radio that a ferry dock will be part of the plan.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted May 25, 2012, 7:37 PM
peanut gallery's Avatar
peanut gallery peanut gallery is offline
Only Mostly Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marin
Posts: 5,218
^That's what I've read as well. These aren't real designs at all. Just some sketches to get the imagination going.

I'm with Gordo on all of this: very excited, but also very dubious. They have Coastal Commission, Bay Commission, Port of SF and city approvals to get through. Not to mention the residents of the area who are already voicing concerns about traffic, parking, views, access, etc. I think their timeline is a fantasy, but if they can tough it out through a laborious approval process, they might get there some day.

An arena would be a great adjunct to the convention center (for larger events). For example, Oracle would no longer need to run busses out to TI for their OpenWorld parties. Unfortunately for Oakland, the arena that bears that corporate name will suddenly find itself getting skipped for much more than just basketball games if this happens. Many of the acts that normally use it will shift those over to this arena instead.

As for building on piers, I've read that they need about $100M of work to be ready to build upon and the arena should cost about $500M on top of that. Not sure if it's mentioned above somewhere, but the Warriors are also after the parking lot across the street, which is currently zoned for residential. That would certainly help offset some of the cost for them.
__________________
My other car is a Dakota Creek Advanced Multihull Design.

Tiburon Miami 1 Miami 2 Ye Olde San Francisco SF: Canyons, waterfront... SF: South FiDi SF: South Park
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted May 28, 2012, 4:19 PM
edsg25 edsg25 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 557
personally I'd rather have seen the 49ers build a stadium in the area (perhaps on the Giants' parking lots across the bridge, south of the ballpark....and send the Warriors to Santa Clara.

No team has ever been so attached to and so much about San Francisco as the oldest (by far) professional franchise in the west, the 49ers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2012, 4:15 PM
1977's Avatar
1977 1977 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 814
Snohetta was chosen to design the new Warriors arena! I have high hopes for this one.


Quote:
The Golden State Warriors have selected the fast-rising firm Snøhetta as design architect for the arena that the team seeks to open in 2017 on Piers 30-32, just south of the Bay Bridge. And, according to Snøhetta co-founder Craig Dykers, the two immense projects have more in common than meets the eye.
"There's an interesting set of connections between these two worlds of culture that hasn't been fully explored," Dykers said last week. "They share a similar need to attract people in such a way that they feel comfortable in various settings, from large groups to individuals."
Snøhetta will be paired with the San Francisco office of AECOM, an international firm with broad experience designing sports facilities. The firms were chosen independently and have yet to begin work on the arena project, which also includes 2.3 acres on the inland side of the Embarcadero. Dykers said he hopes an initial design will be ready for release within the next two months or so.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/place/...#ixzz24fYteGEH
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:45 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.