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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 9:39 AM
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Rasmus... dat 5/5.

It's worth pointing out that literally nobody in either East division is below .500...

EDIT: My bad, Philadelphia is currently .491 for the lowest in either East division.

For comparison, the Jays would be 2nd in the AL West and NL Central.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2012, 2:38 PM
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Any historical comparisons should stop at 2010; first because AA took over at the end of the 2009 season and second the only regular from the 2009 lineup on this seasons regular lineup is Rickey Romero. None of the starting 9 today played significant time in 2009. To include numbers from a team that is the same in name only is really just trying to tailor the facts to your argument.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 1:17 AM
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I'm trying to show you how important it is that the Blue Jays start beating their division rivals! This has nothing to do with who's in the line-up!

2012 2011 2010 2009 Totals
TB 31-23 91-71* 96-66* 84-78
BAL 3-3' 9-9' 11-7' 10-8' 33-27
BOS 4-5' 12-6' 11-7' 9-9' 36-27
NYY 4-2' 9-9' 10-8' 7-11' 30-30
TOR 6-2' 12-6' 10-8' 14-4' 42-20
17-12' 42-30 42-30 40-32 141-104

BOS 28-26 90-72 89-73 95-67*
BAL 2-4' 10-8' 9-9' 16-2' 37-23
NYY 0-2' 12-6' 9-9' 9-9' 30-26
TB 5-4' 6-12' 7-11' 9-9' 27-36
TOR 3-3' 10-8' 12-6' 11-7' 36-24
10-13' 38-34 37-35 45-27 130-109

NYY 29-24 97-65* 95-67* 103-59*
BAL 5-3' 13-5' 13-5' 13-5' 44-18
BOS 2-0' 6-12' 9-9' 9-9' 26-30
TB 2-4' 9-9' 8-10' 11-7' 30-30
TOR 0-2' 11-7' 8-10' 12-6' 31-25
9-9' 39-33 38-34 45-27 131-103

TOR 28-26 81-81 85-77 75-87
BAL 4-5' 12-6' 15-3' 9-9' 40-23
BOS 3-3' 8-10' 6-12' 7-11' 24-36
NYY 2-0' 7-11' 10-8' 6-12' 25-31
TB 2-6' 6-12' 8-10' 4-14' 20-42
11-14' 33-39 39-33 26-46 109-132
* denotes a postseason appearance.

So what's your argument? The Jays don't need to beat their division rivals? I'm a little confused by your inability to discuss this issue.

BTW, as you could probably guess, I'm a little more than just a casual fan, as you like to put it. Where we differ is my ability to look objectively at the strengths and weaknesses of this club. They have to start beating those tough teams in their division. Full stop.

Last edited by Dr Awesomesauce; Jun 7, 2012 at 1:42 AM.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 2:08 AM
Highinthesky Highinthesky is offline
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Quote:
they can't beat their division rivals
This is your statement and this is what I have been talking about the entire time. I'm not sure how that is not discussing the topic at hand?

It is complete hyperbole. As I said before, over the past two years plus this season that would apply to two of their 4 division rivals but not against the other two. Anything beyond that time frame and it seems pointless because you're talking about the same team in name only or you're tailoring the facts to suit your argument. If the reasons why using states from a Jays team that is in fact not the same team as they are fielding now doesn't seem evident to you then yeah kinda of a casual fan move. So again Hyperbole or generic or a blanket statement that would come from a casual fan.

Are you a casual fan? Who knows, who cares; I don't. Do they need to play better and win some games against the Rays and Sox? Absolutely. Still doesn't mean that "they can't beat their division rivals" because their division is more than the Sox and Rays.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 3:06 AM
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Cool...so you're arguing over semantics. Fine, the Jays need to win more than they lose against their division. Done.

Anyway, I like the approach the starting rotation is taking this year.

Last year Morrow would go 6 or 7 innings, strike out 10 and have the bullpen let him down. This year he's not going for the K every time saving his arm for the later innings.

Love it.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 9:05 AM
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Morrow is going to get a no-hitter soon, he's just incredible this year. Definitely passed Ricky for their best starter.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2012, 5:38 PM
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Hyperbole or Semantics, whatever you want to call it sure.

Against a strike out prone Sox team if Alvarez doesn't get close to a K an inning his slow demise is going to continue.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 1:58 AM
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Alvarez is capable of getting far more strikeouts than he has to date; you can say the same for the other starters as well. However, that's not their M.O. this year under Walton and Farrell. They're pitching smarter. Rather than going for the strikeout every time they're forcing batters to put the ball in play. The result is fewer pitches and of course, fewer Ks. Superficially, Alvarez's numbers don't look great but he's getting the job done. And let's not forget that he's only 22 years old. The future looks bright for this kid.

n.b. He just gave up a 2-run homer to Rios.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 2:22 AM
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Yeah that is a legit strategy and you see a guy like Morrow executing on it and his k/9 dropped along with his success. However Alvarez has a k/9 of 2.6. That's more than choosing to pitch to contact. He hasn't demonstrated an ability to throw a strike out pitch this season. It will probably eventually hurt him because it can inflate his pitch count and sometimes you need a k to get out of a jam.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 3:38 AM
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Cordero blows another.

Where are Henke and Ward when you need them? Hell, I'd take Billy Koch at this point.

Alvarez:

I suspect it'll take him a couple years to round into form. The Ks should come in time.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 3:56 AM
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Santos trade

The Jays traded young pitching prospect Nestor Molina to the White Sox in the off-season for now-injured Sergio Santos. Here are Molina's numbers so far this season in the minors:

(W-L) 4-5
(ERA) 5.23
(G) 12
(GS) 11
(IP) 72.1
(H) 95
(BB) 16
(SO) 56

Like Alvarez, he's young and full of promise, though his stats aren't great this year. Have to watch him to see how things turn out.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2012, 3:48 PM
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Wow those numbers stink. What level is he at with the Sox? I hope not single A or this guy might not have much of a career..

I think comparing him to Alvarez is the slap to the face of Alvarez. Alvarez projects out to be a top of the rotation starter. The reason the Jays traded that guy is because their scouting department projected him to be a back end of the rotation starter at best.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2012, 2:29 AM
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^Those numbers are from AA and AAA this year. I believe he's with the Sox AAA affiliate in Charlotte now.

Last year his numbers were nearly flawless and very good in previous seasons as well. He might need a season at AAA to get everything sorted.

2011 ~ A+, AA
(W-L) 12-3
(ERA) 2.21
(G) 26
(GS) 23
(IP) 130.1
(H) 114
(BB) 16
(SO) 148
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  #34  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2012, 2:40 AM
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More Interleague tonight. Like a lot of people, I was really excited when interleague play started. However, its lustre has worn off and I really think we ought to go back to the old ways. Aside from detracting from the World Series and All Star game, there's nothing worse than losing a completely pointless game against a team with which you have no historical or geographical ties. I have the feeling that many share my thoughts on this topic.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2012, 2:51 AM
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Well might as well get used to it. Starting next season when they balance the leagues there will be at least one interleague game a day.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2012, 3:15 AM
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Hmmm I think it's a mistake.

I know my feelings are likely fueled by childhood nostalgia but Interleague play really takes away from the mystery of the other league and its players.

As a Jays fan (pre-TSN), sometimes the only time you'd see Pete Rose, Ryne Sandberg or Dale Murphy play was at the All Star Game. It was exciting and the games were often played with great prejudice.

Anyway, I guess a lot of that is just fond memories on my behalf.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2012, 3:16 AM
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Oh Gaaaaawwwwwwwwwwd...Cordero's pitching. Fingers crossed.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2012, 3:24 AM
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Horribly and tragically predictable.

Time for some cutting 'n' slashing.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2012, 1:25 PM
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I'm not a huge fan of inter-league play. But that's largely because I am a big fan of the DH and do not at all like the pitcher batting. To me it's a wasted batter in the line up, especially for AL teams where the pitchers have so little career experience of actually batting.

It's frustrating that the Jays can lose games because their pitchers don't have batting experience to get a runner scored. Lets say we lose 3 games in a NL ball park this season, then miss out on a wild card spot by 2 games in Sept. Besides the bullpen losing games for us I know where I would be looking at 'lost' games.

Maybe if the NL switched to AL rules with a DH then inter-league play would be ok. I do like the notion of getting to see teams you don't normally play, but that's all.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2012, 4:36 AM
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I have to say that I'm more of a purist...I love the NL game. However, there are times when you wonder what the point is of having the pitcher hit. It does force managers to be a little more strategic but in the end, I'm not sure whether it's better for the game or not. Anyway, that's the beauty of baseball: two leagues; two different sets of rules. How awesome is that?
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