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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 2:42 AM
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I am wondering that too. Does anyone know how many stories they are structurally able to add? I hope it will be at least six and the design will be wonderful and reduce the prominence of Atlantic Place

Edit: I hope they don't take away any levels of parking for the hotel. Well, obviously the rooftop lot would be gone but hopefully no more are taken. I also hope it would be slightly taller than AP and Scotia center to offer a bit of variety and not create a huge flat-roof effect.
I think one of the conditions upon sale of the AP garage to their current owners was that they had to keep the building a parking garage. So I would assume any parking loss would be minimal. I really do wish the same people who owned AP owned AP parking, maybe that way there'd be some joint reclad of everything. But the hotel and the reclad that will go along with the garage will definitely be a plus to the harbourfront
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 2:49 AM
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They would need to make provision for a passenger entrance and a loading service area for the hotel. They need an entrance with a driveway. Also, an elevator core and some kind of small ground level lobby would be necessary. Any changes to the existing garage might mean eliminating some parking and relocating some ramps etc. on lower floors in order to provide this. I have no idea how they would do it. A Water Street entrance might be nice as well. Also, I think it would mean a complete reclad of the existing garage.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 2:51 AM
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It'll definitely be a challenge to the developer. Cold, open parking garage doesn't turn in to a luxury hotel very easily
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 3:00 AM
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What's so special about the Atlantic Place parking garage though?

I can't imagine it being much (if any) cheaper to build on top of and extensively modify the existing structure than it would be to just tear it down and start from scratch.

It's already what, almost 40 years old?
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 3:05 AM
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If anyone can do it, It's Groupe Germain (if that really is the developer). They seem to do fantastic, innovative work. I can't wait for official news! For some reason I am imagining a small glass room being a check in desk on ground level with an elevator running up the side of the garage to the main lobby in the hotel portion. Haha, It probably will be nothing like that, but it's just all I am imagining, haha!

If this rumour is in fact true, it looks like 351 could be getting a little or big brother depending on the scale of the development!
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 3:09 AM
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What's so special about the Atlantic Place parking garage though?

I can't imagine it being much (if any) cheaper to build on top of and extensively modify the existing structure than it would be to just tear it down and start from scratch.

It's already what, almost 40 years old?
I don't think tearing it down is an option because downtown cannot function today without that garage. 351 and metropark will not have sufficient extra parking spaces to cover the need even if they are built in time for this development's approval. People need someplace to park and a large bulk of people who work downtown rely on that garage. I can't see it being possible for them to tear down the garage without massive public outcry.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 3:21 AM
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Originally Posted by CdnEh View Post
What's so special about the Atlantic Place parking garage though?

I can't imagine it being much (if any) cheaper to build on top of and extensively modify the existing structure than it would be to just tear it down and start from scratch.

It's already what, almost 40 years old?
The city is investing millions to add about 250 spaces to the 351 parking garage so I can't imagine what it would cost to tear down the AP parking garage only to resurrect a better looking one.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
They would need to make provision for a passenger entrance and a loading service area for the hotel. They need an entrance with a driveway. Also, an elevator core and some kind of small ground level lobby would be necessary. Any changes to the existing garage might mean eliminating some parking and relocating some ramps etc. on lower floors in order to provide this. I have no idea how they would do it. A Water Street entrance might be nice as well. Also, I think it would mean a complete reclad of the existing garage.
that's part of the beauty of this site .. it does not have an affect on water street .. as of now .. it only has a small allyway access (between ap and the building next to it)

unless they buy one of the buildings on waterstreet and make it like an entrance .. I dunno .. they will probably just use the current site adding a lobby on the ground floor with an elevator. Actually come to think of it that alleyway is the wheelchair access to atlantic place .. so I have no idea

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rxt...NL&form=LMLTCC
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 12:22 PM
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This is definitely going to be a veiw battle ... just look at even from the henry bell development :

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=st.+jo...,115.17,,0,6.2

that will be their biggest ammo and the threat of a "glass wall" that's what will get average people
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 12:27 PM
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True, but it's only the last few feet of Southside Hills they can see anyway. And Henry Bell itself will block this view for the houses behind.

I think we can defeat the view objections.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 12:32 PM
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True, but it's only the last few feet of Southside Hills they can see anyway. And Henry Bell itself will block this view for the houses behind.

I think we can defeat the view objections.
I don't agree with the veiw argument but you have to think about what the enemy's strategy will be in battle

That's the only one I could show using streetveiw, however I have been trying to see which veiws and trust me there are many more, many from houses and the veiws FOR the henry bell development will be blocked (but thats a lot later they will be constructing those condos

I'm just trying to get a feel for the angle they will take
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 3:05 PM
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I don't agree with the veiw argument but you have to think about what the enemy's strategy will be in battle

That's the only one I could show using streetveiw, however I have been trying to see which veiws and trust me there are many more, many from houses and the veiws FOR the henry bell development will be blocked (but thats a lot later they will be constructing those condos

I'm just trying to get a feel for the angle they will take

Pretty well their stance (the against group) will be:

1. Modern....Monstrosity
2. My View My View
3. I do not want large Cranes in MY downtown.
4. Corporate Greed
5. What about the poor
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 3:56 PM
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Pretty well their stance (the against group) will be:

1. Modern....Monstrosity
2. My View My View
3. I do not want large Cranes in MY downtown.
4. Corporate Greed
5. What about the poor
the what about the poor argument should be squashed because the ppl who can afford a row house with a narrows view are definitely not the poor .. they should campaign to have public observation areas instead
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 4:00 PM
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the what about the poor argument should be squashed because the ppl who can afford a row house with a narrows view are definitely not the poor .. they should campaign to have public observation areas instead
I agree but we all know THEY will use the affordable housing button.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 5:17 PM
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I mentioned before that it is only going to be 2-3 stories.

There is an enormous cost savings to just have to build on top of a structure like this that would probably require minimal structural upgrading (I'm sure they have looked into the condition of the garage before they started). For one the land is free and all of the site work (excavation, foundations, etc) is already done. It took 351 and Fortis almost a year to complete their site work and millions of dollars.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 5:19 PM
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2-3 stories... so help me God if people lose their minds over that, I will write an angry-worded post here several months from now.

That's nothing. Build it. Done.

Also, I'm excited to see what they'll do with those 2-3 stories. Such a small addition, in my mind, means it's going to have to be pretty cool and interesting just to be profitable.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 5:32 PM
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Groupe Germain are into the more high end hotel market so only having a few stories makes sense.

It would be cool if they expanded onto Atlantic Place too, but that won't happen.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 8:59 PM
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I mentioned before that it is only going to be 2-3 stories.

There is an enormous cost savings to just have to build on top of a structure like this that would probably require minimal structural upgrading (I'm sure they have looked into the condition of the garage before they started). For one the land is free and all of the site work (excavation, foundations, etc) is already done. It took 351 and Fortis almost a year to complete their site work and millions of dollars.
Lets hope they did their homework in regard to the structure.

Building a new building on an already 40 year old structure seems pretty risky both strucurally and financially. I'd hate to see the lifespan of the hotel be cut short because the underlying structure has served out its useful life.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2013, 10:13 PM
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40 years isn't really that old if the building has been properly maintained.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2013, 2:14 PM
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January 5, 2013

The Bowring Downtown Centre, subject of our latest rumour:



And the site of our other major rumour, the Groupe Germain hotel to be constructed atop the Atlantic Place Parkade:

A view toward the Mirador Building of the Henry-Bell Condo Complex with the Atlantic Place Parkade just beyond:



Views of the Atlantic Place Parkade from the backside of Duckworth Street:







I wish they could extend their hotel on top of all these Water Street buildings. Just imagine how beautiful it would look with all those fascades (and even the actual buildings) preserved just as they are but with a beautiful, modern, Groupe Germain hotel on top. I love it!

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