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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by AviationGuy View Post
Here's the downtown Houston Macy's (the orangish building on the left). I feel very nostalgic about this, because when it was Foley's, my grandmother would take me there on Saturdays during the 60s, when downtown was jammed with thousands of pedestrians. It was a huge store, full of cool things, including a toy department like you wouldn't believe. That's where we went to have photos taken of us with Santa Claus. Foley's also had an outstanding formal restaurant where people dressed up to dine. I think it was called the Venetian Room or something like that. I don't know when Macy's took over.

Anyone else have nostalgic stories about this store?


(from Google Earth)
No, that store to me is an eyesore and the vast majority of my memories of it are where the homeless downtown like to sleep at night; and pigeons.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 6:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Inkoumori View Post
Macy's is a vampire being run from Cincinnati.
Macys is run from 34th Street.

Official HQ is Cincy because of legacy of Federated, but upper management is all at 151 W. 34 in Manhattan.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by atlantaguy View Post
As part of this buyout, one of the first orders of business across the country was to routinely close down the beloved flagship stores in scores of Downtowns from coast to coast.
Do you have any basis for this outlandish claim?

You really think that Macys shuts down company-owned stores on factors other than sales?

Macys has more downtown stores than every other department store chain in the U.S. combined. They're putting a half-billion into the 34th Street store, and 100 million into the Downtown Brooklyn store. They're building a big new Bronx store.

They maintain big downtown stores all over the country, from SF, to Chicago, to Boston. They're easily the most pro-downtown major retailer in the U.S.

Have you been to downtown Miami? There's practically no retail there, and what exists is crap. Yet Macys still soldiers on. This is true in quite a few downtowns throughout the country, decades after the other department stores left for the burbs.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 6:55 PM
seaskyfan seaskyfan is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Do you have any basis for this outlandish claim?

You really think that Macys shuts down company-owned stores on factors other than sales?

Macys has more downtown stores than every other department store chain in the U.S. combined. They're putting a half-billion into the 34th Street store, and 100 million into the Downtown Brooklyn store. They're building a big new Bronx store.

They maintain big downtown stores all over the country, from SF, to Chicago, to Boston. They're easily the most pro-downtown major retailer in the U.S.

Have you been to downtown Miami? There's practically no retail there, and what exists is crap. Yet Macys still soldiers on. This is true in quite a few downtowns throughout the country, decades after the other department stores left for the burbs.
I think you're both right. Through a lot of the mergers that have resulted in the current Macy's the company has wound up with multiple downtown stores in the same city - Filene's and Jordan Marsh in Boston, for example. They've then closed one of them. I think the same thing happened to the Strawbridge & Clothier flagship in Philly.
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 7:19 PM
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Originally Posted by seaskyfan View Post
I think you're both right. Through a lot of the mergers that have resulted in the current Macy's the company has wound up with multiple downtown stores in the same city - Filene's and Jordan Marsh in Boston, for example. They've then closed one of them. I think the same thing happened to the Strawbridge & Clothier flagship in Philly.
Don't you think they closed the stores based on current or projected sales, rather than some evil conspiracy to close downtown retail flagships?

They probably didn't think that a single downtown could maintain two nearby flagship stores for the same retailer (which sounds reasonable to me), so closed one of them. That doesn't sound like some anti-downtown agenda.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 7:31 PM
seaskyfan seaskyfan is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
They probably didn't think that a single downtown could maintain two nearby flagship stores for the same retailer (which sounds reasonable to me), so closed one of them. That doesn't sound like some anti-downtown agenda.
That's my sense. Particularly in Boston where Filene's and Jordan Marsh were across the street from each other.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
Maybe one of the "retail components" of one of the new buildings around the new convention center hotel can house a Macy's or a Target. There would appear to be plenty of foot traffic in that part of downtown and they may make it work there by using the new downtown residents (one park place, new ball park apartments, etc.), the tourists/conventioneers (hotels), and Houston area residents coming to downtown for the park, a concert, a convention, or a ball game.
That seems shaky.

The edge of a downtown can be a good spot for a second retail core if it can draw heavily from the nearest couple hundred thousand residents (who would mostly drive there in this scenario). And a good range of events (conventions, games) can help the restaurant component. But big events can also scare off a lot of those residents due to traffic. For any retail area it's important to become a "habit" or "default" for a lot of people, and stuff like game traffic can interrupt that.

The neighborhood is obviously gaining some residents and hotels, but the numbers aren't high enough. Add another few thousand hotel rooms within an easy walk and that'll be a big component. The resident count is drops in the bucket...build another few thousand units and you'll have better groceries and takeout, but it even dozens of towers wouldn't be a serious factor for a Macy's.

A caveat...if you did add a lot of residents (say 5,000 units within 1/3 mile), you might create the sort of environment that can also attract many people from elsewhere around town...these things can snowball. For example, residents can give more restaurants a reason to open when the workers and conventioneers aren't around, bring furniture stores, add to pedestrian traffic, focus attention on nuisances, etc. Part of the snowball effect is that office workers and tourists will also tend to spend more when there's more for sale.

Convention centers and arenas/stadia are a big problem because without a major event they're dead zones and barriers on a large scale.

The bar is lower for something like a City Target. They have a lot of things but not a ton of anything, and they're smaller. I'm not impressed with Seattle's (the supermarket is 90% mass-market packaged stuff, they don't sell the other two things I've wanted to buy there, juggling balls and a computer, and they have zero ambiance) but they fill a lot of gaps.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Have you been to downtown Miami? There's practically no retail there, and what exists is crap. Yet Macys still soldiers on. This is true in quite a few downtowns throughout the country, decades after the other department stores left for the burbs.
Very True, but this round of cuts took out many of the stores where they were the sole remaining major retailer.

By my count:
NYC (historic stand alone)
Brooklyn (historic stand alone)
Boston (historic stand alone)
Philadelphia (historic stand alone)
DC (stand alone)
Chicago - State Street (historic stand alone)
Chicago - N. Michigan (urban mall)
Miami (historic stand alone)
Pittsburgh (historic stand alone)
Minneapolis (historic stand alone)
Cincinnati (urban mall)
St. Louis (historic stand alone)
San Francisco (historic stand alone)
Los Angeles (urban mall)
Seattle (historic stand alone)
Portland, OR (historic stand alone)
Spokane, WA (historic stand alone)
Walla Walla, WA (historic stand alone)
Salem, OR (urban mall)
Providence, RI (urban mall)
San Diego (urban mall)
Sacramento (urban mall)
Salt Lake City (urban mall)

Closures over last few years:
Boise (historic stand alone)
Los Angeles (mall)(other location)
Missoula, MT (historic stand alone)

2013 closures:
Houston (historic stand alone)
Honolulu (stand alone)
Pasadena (urban mall)
St. Paul (historic stand alone)

I'm sure I'm missing some of current downtown stores located in malls where the mall name makes it sound suburban. Plus it gets hard to draw the line between what is a downtown store and a suburban store, for example there is a stand alone store in downtown Walnut Creek, CA, does that count? Does Pasadena count?

I linked Google Street View for the lesser known stores in the list above

Last edited by pdxstreetcar; Jan 6, 2013 at 8:14 PM. Reason: forgot SLC
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 7:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxstreetcar View Post
I'm sure I'm missing some of current downtown stores located in malls where the mall name makes it sound suburban. Plus it gets hard to draw the line between what is a downtown store and a suburban store, for example there is a stand alone store in downtown Walnut Creek, CA, does that count? Does Pasadena count?

I linked Google Street View for the lesser known stores in the list above
I think there are plenty more, though you're right that there's a grey area. Are we talking suburban Main Street stores like Pasadena? If so, there's definitely a lot more. I would include those stores.

At least in the NYC area, I can think of the following downtown or urban stores-

Manhattan- Macys- 34th Street- freestanding
Brooklyn- Downtown Brooklyn- freestanding
Brooklyn- Kings Plaza- urban mall
Queens- Flushing Main Street- freestanding
Queens- Queens Center- urban mall
Queens- Douglaston Center- urban mall
Bronx- Parkchester- freestanding
Bronx- Bay Plaza- urban mall (u/c)

Jersey City- Newport Center- urban mall
White Plains- Galleria- urban mall
Stamford- Town Center- urban mall
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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 7:59 PM
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^^ I'm pretty sure there is a Macy's in downtown Flushing, Queens as well.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 8:03 PM
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PDX, does your list mean closures? Macy's is open in Downtown Seattle. It's the former Bon Marche.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mhays View Post
PDX, does your list mean closures? Macy's is open in Downtown Seattle. It's the former Bon Marche.
No, he's putting together a current list of downtown Macys locations.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 8:25 PM
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We have to face the fact that these large Department stores have been and are dependent on very high volume, very dense locations, and few cities in the US provide this anymore. It is incredible when you go to Paris or London to see the street density and store density in their huge Department stores (like Galleries Lafayette on Haussman). This type of dense street department store shopping was still lively in the 50s in the US and declined with the suburban Mall development. It is unlikely to rerturn and we can just see how long even cities like Chicago can hang on.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 8:52 PM
J. Will J. Will is offline
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Way too much emphasis is put by SSPers on immediate population. I doubt Houston, Phoenix, or Jacksonville had many more people living downtown 50-60 years ago than they do now, yet they all had FAR more retail than they do now. Jacksonville in particular had huge amounts of retail for such a small metro area. They could support it because the downtown was a destination. How many people live within walking distance of the typical large American mall?

Stuff like dry cleaners and convenience stores depends on population within walking distance. For things like dept. stores that is really not relevant. They need to draw from a huge population anyways.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 8:54 PM
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Sorry for the confusion, that longer list is the remaining stores. But then below that I included the most recent closures.

Thanks, Wow, I'm amazed about the Bronx Parkchester location, just looking at that on Google Street View. I'd consider Parkchester & Flushing to be urban stores.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Do you have any basis for this outlandish claim?

You really think that Macys shuts down company-owned stores on factors other than sales?
Outlandish, my ass. It's a known fact that Federated/Macy's did this from coast to coast. Either you are too young to remember, or were living under a rock.

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Macys has more downtown stores than every other department store chain in the U.S. combined. They're putting a half-billion into the 34th Street store, and 100 million into the Downtown Brooklyn store. They're building a big new Bronx store.
No shit. Because they BOUGHT EVERYONE OUT. There is a VERY small handful of regional stores left. But good news in regards to 34th Street and the former A&S in Brooklyn, nonetheless.

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They maintain big downtown stores all over the country, from SF, to Chicago, to Boston. They're easily the most pro-downtown major retailer in the U.S.
Again, of course they are. There aren't very many other chains out there anymore.

Quote:
Have you been to downtown Miami? There's practically no retail there, and what exists is crap. Yet Macys still soldiers on. This is true in quite a few downtowns throughout the country, decades after the other department stores left for the burbs.
Yes, I am very familiar with Burdine's former flagship. Which Macy's has allowed to become a dump, in my opinion. Now the flagship for South Florida is down the road at Dadeland.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 9:31 PM
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Originally Posted by atlantaguy View Post
Outlandish, my ass. It's a known fact that Federated/Macy's did this from coast to coast. Either you are too young to remember, or were living under a rock.
If it's a "known fact" that Macys closed downtown department stores because they hate downtowns, please point me to some evidence for this claim.

And then why do they have more downtown stores than the rest of the U.S. retailers combined? Why are they actually opening new urban stores? Sounds like a poor way to go about their fiendish plan.

Back in the real world, I bet you they close stores because they're unprofitable, and could give a crap if the unprofitable store is downtown or in some sprawlsville. Crazy but true.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 9:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Not surprised about Houston's Macy's either. Surprised it held on as long as it did. I'm sure it ill just sit there until they implode it. Books-a-million was no surprise either.
The new Macy's will be going into that Books A Million space. That will help out the Pavilions even more.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by J. Will View Post
Way too much emphasis is put by SSPers on immediate population. I doubt Houston, Phoenix, or Jacksonville had many more people living downtown 50-60 years ago than they do now, yet they all had FAR more retail than they do now. Jacksonville in particular had huge amounts of retail for such a small metro area. They could support it because the downtown was a destination. How many people live within walking distance of the typical large American mall?

Stuff like dry cleaners and convenience stores depends on population within walking distance. For things like dept. stores that is really not relevant. They need to draw from a huge population anyways.
Downtown Jax had seven major departments within a three block radius of each other up until the mid 1980s. At the time, about 1,000 people lived in downtown while roughly 200,000 lived within a 3 mile radius. All seven either closed as their entire chains shut down between 1981 and 1987 or relocated to new malls in the burbs.

Furchgott's and Levy-Wolf (local chains) closed all their locations. JCPenney and Ivey's closed their downtown locations but expanded into the burbs with multiple smaller new locations. Sears and Rosenblooms (local) relocated to the burbs. Jax's largest store, May-Cohens was the last to close their flagship store. Just as soon as it closed the remaining stores were acquired by Maison Blanche and through a system of mergers are now suburban Belk stores today.

Today, downtown has more than 1,000 residents, but the city's urban population within a 3 mile radius has declined 50% since 1950. The decline of the pre-consolidated 30 square mile city just happens to masked by rapid growth over the same time period in the remaining +750 square miles of suburban Duval County.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2013, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
If it's a "known fact" that Macys closed downtown department stores because they hate downtowns, please point me to some evidence for this claim.
I never said that, and you know it. Nice attempt to twist my words though, as usual.

Quote:
And then why do they have more downtown stores than the rest of the U.S. retailers combined? Why are they actually opening new urban stores? Sounds like a poor way to go about their fiendish plan.
What parts of my previous posts do you not understand? They and Federated basically bought out 85% or more of the regional Department Stores across the county. Look it up and educate yourself.

Quote:
Back in the real world, I bet you they close stores because they're unprofitable, and could give a crap if the unprofitable store is downtown or in some sprawlsville. Crazy but true.
Macy's executives obviously aren't the geniuses you seem to believe they are. Look no further than the retaining and endorsement of the very flawed Donald Trump as a recent example.

Last edited by atlantaguy; Jan 6, 2013 at 11:08 PM.
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