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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 4:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rs913 View Post
It does. Nordstrom and Macy's are part of a downtown development called Paseu Nuevo that, while technically a "mall", is outdoors and feels like an extension of downtown SB. There's also a Saks 5th Avenue downtown.
Paseo Nuevo is indeed a downtown mall, but the State Street frontage is mostly original buildings and IIRC there was a Broadway (now Macy's) prior to completion of the mall in 1991. Nordstrom's is all 'new'.

The downtown Macy's (there is a 2nd Santa Barbara location at the more removed La Cumbre Plaza, also a Macerich mall) is pretty small and quite lousy though. The selection compared to the other location is atrocious. There was some discussion 4-5 years ago that it would end up a Bloomingdale's, but that was pre-recession.

Saks is not in this complex and is freestanding.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 4:29 AM
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I'm still amazed that Macy's closed their store (Marshall Field's first branch) in Lake Forest a few years ago. I mean, if they can't make it in Lake Forest, one of the most affluent places anywhere, that's pretty telling. Now the building houses bluemercury and j.crew.


Marshall Field's in Lake Forest by phantom_xtl, on Flickr
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 4:36 AM
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Originally Posted by atlantaguy View Post
Then you would be mistaken. I have been in Holt Renfrew on Bloor in Toronto. While the merchandise was impressive, the downright icy to totally absent customer service negated it. Nordstrom has perfected customer service to an art form in comparison. Anyone who's been to both can tell you the same thing.
yeah, holt renfrew is like shopping at prada or something, not very fun - nordstrom is way better for that. but holt renfrew is definitely a more upscale shop, and the clientele is not precisely the same.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 8:21 AM
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Originally Posted by spyguy View Post
I'm still amazed that Macy's closed their store (Marshall Field's first branch) in Lake Forest a few years ago. I mean, if they can't make it in Lake Forest, one of the most affluent places anywhere, that's pretty telling. Now the building houses bluemercury and j.crew.
The soon-to-close Belmont, MA store reminds me a lot of the former Lake Forest Field's.

I think both stores were ultimately unsuccessful because they were unable to offer the selection and range of their mall counterparts, for obvious reasons. People expect to browse several lines of clothing, jewelry, cosmetics, etc at a department store, and since Macy's didn't bother to brand these stores any differently, the small stores couldn't live up to customer expectations.

A different strategy might have saved them; focusing on a smaller group of departments, or selling more unique/limited-edition stuff.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 2:54 PM
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Macy's in DT Honolulu is only about 2 miles from Macy's at Ala Moana Shopping Center.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 3:55 PM
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A lot of suburban malls have been dying too...most metro areas have at least one, if not several, dead malls in the suburbs, so it isn't all a downtown issue.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 4:24 PM
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I don't know if this is still true as of today, but several years ago I read that there wasn't a single old-fashioned mall under construction anywhere in the US. I don't think this is just because it's "trendy" to build lifestyle centers, but rather because mall developers have figured out that the 30year shelf-life of a traditional mall just isn't worth it. Better to build something that can be tweaked and changed and added onto later, than something you have to completely bulldoze in 30-40 years. I think this says more about real estate development though than it does about Macy's and their business model.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 4:30 PM
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To me there are multiple factors operating here. First the density street sidewalk pedestrian issue, which we have largely lost in most American cities - but remains in most comparable size cities in Europe (visit any central core of a big city in Germany for example); second is the "destination" idea, formerly US downtowns were destinations, but no longer in many cases; third "destination-malls", most big cities have destination malls such as Lenox in Atlanta, Galleria in Houston, etc that have replaced the downtown shopping; fourth, dying suburban malls that are not destinations, many suburbanites drive right by local area malls to go to the "destination-mall'; fifth, so-called "department" stores long ago gave up having many departments, those who are older remember big dept stores (e.g. Marshall-Fields, Hutzler's, May, etc. having book depts, stationary, hardware, etc. many of these department areas have been replaced by big box units, Staples, Home Depot, BBand B, etc; finally, internet shopping is probably beginning to take a toll and will increasingly.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 5:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
The soon-to-close Belmont, MA store reminds me a lot of the former Lake Forest Field's.

I think both stores were ultimately unsuccessful because they were unable to offer the selection and range of their mall counterparts, for obvious reasons. People expect to browse several lines of clothing, jewelry, cosmetics, etc at a department store, and since Macy's didn't bother to brand these stores any differently, the small stores couldn't live up to customer expectations.

A different strategy might have saved them; focusing on a smaller group of departments, or selling more unique/limited-edition stuff.
There are also quite a few chains that consist ONLY of these kinds of stores: freestanding stores in central business districts in suburbs and small towns, kind of like mall department stores only smaller, usually not very trendy or fashion-forward (more like "where your grandmother would shop"). McCaulou's in the Bay Area is one of them. Definitely a good point that it probably did Macy's no good to have their name on stores like this.

As for dying suburban malls, seems like every other one of them has a Macy's too. Hilltop, Eastridge, Vallco, Newpark, Bay Fair, and Southland malls here in the Bay Area all have Macy's locations. Each of these malls has become run-down, empty, or both - and Macy's has let their locations at these places go to seed just like some of their urban stores.

Maybe Macy's just needs to have fewer stores (if not from a short-term dollars-and-cents perspective, then from a long-term brand management perspective).
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  #90  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 7:17 PM
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Originally Posted by atlantaguy View Post
The only converted downtown Macy's I've been in lately that seemed halfway acceptable was the old Marshall Fields in Chicago. But even that formerly grand flagship seemed somehow "gutted" to me. And all of my Chicago friends absolutely hate the fact that they erased the Marshal Fields name....all of these years later. That's pretty damn telling.
Gutted? I shop here all the time and - from my perspective - seems just as busy as Field's was back in the day. . . and I don't know of anyone who gives a shit anymore about the brand change. . .

In regards to the Houston closure, if they're closing the one downtown, why aren't they closing the old one at the Galleria. . . there's no reason to have 2 Macy's in the same mall fer-chrise-sake!!!

. . .
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  #91  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 7:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Trae View Post
The new Macy's will be going into that Books A Million space. That will help out the Pavilions even more.
source?

a drawing for a proposed redevelopment of the current downtown houston macy's.

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  #92  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom In Chicago View Post
Gutted? I shop here all the time and - from my perspective - seems just as busy as Field's was back in the day. . . and I don't know of anyone who gives a shit anymore about the brand change. . .



. . .
Can't agree Marshall-Fields, like Hutzler's (Baltimore), Wannamakers (Philly), Rich's (Atlanta), etc etc etc all had strong home town connections, founded by locals and in addition supported the arts, culture and many activities that were unique to the particular town. Of course, from a pure shopping merchandise perspective Macy's carries pretty much what these stores carried - but it does not have the same local Geist; much like a Home Depot does is not a substitute for a local hardware store - but on abigger scale.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 8:30 PM
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Yeah, Same for Dayton's in Minneapolis. I really feel like Dayton's and MF were more upscale than Macy's. Macy's feels almost tacky compared to those stores. Anyway, they carry on some of the old Daytons traditions at the Minneapolis store...but it isn't quite the same. For example, each Christmas there is a sort of walk through diorama presentation on the 8th floor...before Macy's, it was custom made each year with a different theme...different fairy tales usually. Since Macy's, it is the same one every year "Life of an Elf" or something like that. They still put some money into it, they added a puppet show this year. It just isn't the same to take your kids downtown each year to see the same presentation.

They also still do the flower show on the 8th floor auditorium each year.

Haha, here is a kind of funny commentary on the situation by a local:
http://minnesota-life.tumblr.com/pos...istmas-display

History of Dayton's...yes the same Dayton family that is the governor of MN right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayton's

To summarize, opening in 1902, Dayton's became quite the entity...started Target in the early 60s, took over Hudson's out of Detroit in the late 60s, started B. Dalton book stores in 66(to later be sold to Barnes and Noble, and then closed), acquired Mervyn's in 1978(Making Dayton's holdings the 7th largest retailer in the US)...bought out Marshall Fields in 1990...Changed the name of the whole company to Target Corp around 2000, and then sold off all of the traditional dept stores to focus on the big player, Target. I think not a ton of people know the relationship between all of these places.

With such a history, a lot of Minnesotans are still sad that Dayton's is no more.

The original 1902 store (with 2 large additions that were added in the 40s and 60s you can see wrapping the original) still stands as macy's on Nicollet Mall.


The store has now been pared down to 5 levels of retail, from the former 7+. There is also the "Skyroom" on the 12th floor, which is a popular food court with great views.

Last edited by MNMike; Jan 7, 2013 at 9:01 PM.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 9:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuckerman View Post
Can't agree Marshall-Fields, like Hutzler's (Baltimore), Wannamakers (Philly), Rich's (Atlanta), etc etc etc all had strong home town connections, founded by locals and in addition supported the arts, culture and many activities that were unique to the particular town.
The store does not feel gutted to me either. Macy's has invested a ton of money in that store because of the enormous volume of people that pass through that area everyday. It is as busy as when Marshall- Fields was there. What's happening now is, a whole new generation of young shoppers and new transplants are shopping there. You also have hundreds of thousands of office workers, tourist/conventioneers and, students passing through 7 days a week. Some older customers/shoppers did not return but others did on a limited bases.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 9:16 PM
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I think what they may mean is that it seems much less upscale than MF...that is what I have been saying anyway. SALE SALE SALE all the time at Macy's, it isn't classy like MF or Dayton's. The merchandising is messy, the fitting rooms are unattended and a disaster. You can get really good deals though, so I like that!
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  #96  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MNMike View Post
I think what they may mean is that it seems much less upscale than MF...that is what I have been saying anyway. SALE SALE SALE all the time at Macy's, it isn't classy like MF or Dayton's. The merchandising is messy, the fitting rooms are unattended and a disaster. You can get really good deals though, so I like that!
I Agree.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 9:24 PM
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In many ways this is a matter of perception as well. In Atlanta we still shop regularly at the former Rich's in Lenox (now Macy's) and yes it is very busy, but somehow doesn't quite have the same feel. I grew up with MF in Chicago and when I go there now it is only for nostalgia of what once was; MF was a special place, not just another store that I could visit in any big city. I am not a nostalgic person, I like change in cities, but also recognize then institutions pass.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 9:24 PM
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Maybe the issue is that a downtown Macy's is either crowded or dead? For example, the one in the former Wanamaker's--an undersized store due to its legacy--outperforms every other Macy's in the region (and that includes King of Prussia), while Pittsburghers always fear the one in the former Kauffman's is going to be axed...And those are in the same state.
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  #99  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 9:47 PM
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Originally Posted by WesternGulf View Post
source?

a drawing for a proposed redevelopment of the current downtown houston macy's.

Huh? What is that from? The Chronicle said it would be an office tower not a new shopping mall.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2013, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Double L View Post
Huh? What is that from? The Chronicle said it would be an office tower not a new shopping mall.
I do not think it is suppose to depict a shopping center. It is Munoz and Albin Architects rendered proposal for the site that depicts corporate office space and the Macys department store on the bottom level(s). From what I've read this area is zoned to be the retail district for the CBD and it is the mayor's intention to lure retail to the area. Getting rid of a department store space and bringing in a single use office tower or building may not support that goal.
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