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  #41  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 4:22 PM
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Forget for a minute the colors, forget for a minute the materials, forget for a minute the attempt to add some value to the property, what you really have here is a blatant attempt to dazzle and confuse in order to circumvent regulations.

The bottom line here is that no matter what this addition will ultimately look, like the reality is that it will extend an 11 story wall along the waterfront and set a precedent that could lead to that wall being further extended. Remember the Fortis proposal, hmmm, perhaps they should come back to the table with a revised 11 story “block” instead of the 15 story tower, and the hotel at 123 Water, didn’t they scale back from 11 stories to 8? Where has that left them?

This is not so much the thin edge of the wedge but more of a very THICK edge of the wedge.

I blame council for this as much as anyone, their attempt to rezone the AP Garage site due to its “historical” use as a parking lot has forced the developer’s hand to come back with a proposal that enhances the value of their investment. (The details in the document outline the process that was taking place behind closed doors).

My guess is that given their “druthers” SONCO would much rather bulldoze the garage and put up a nice hotel (within the guidelines) but this council is so obsessed with parking that they want to force the issue.

I have a feeling that the loudest fireworks on the 4th of July will be at the public meeting at City Hall, not over the skies of Washington.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsell View Post
I have a feeling that the loudest fireworks on the 4th of July will be at the public meeting at City Hall, not over the skies of Washington.
Very clever...

Haha I disagree with this point though, I have a feeling this proposal will see very little opposition. It virtually destroys nobodies view of the harbour and sadly that is all that our selfish citizens care about. Everyone else is in support of it because it takes an old eyesore that everyone hates and turns it into a different kind of an eyesore that we'll hate in another 40 years

Seriously though, I think this will turn out alright and will see very little opposition.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 5:47 PM
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Yup, There's a story 5:30 on Here and Now about the APP Hotel.

On a side note, I hate people. The guy on the preview was like "Why do we even need another new hotel? People always complain that we need more parking." No sir, you are an idiot. The hotel goes on top of the parkade. Dumbass.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 6:45 PM
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Here is almost 5 minutes of video talking to people downtown about the proposal.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada...ID/2391432465/
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  #45  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 7:24 PM
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"Do we really need another hotel downtown. People keep complaining about parking."

Oh boy. We have people who love to kick and holler every time a proposal for downtown is put ahead. Tourists don't come here to see these buildings they say. But in the end of the day they don't care enough to actually build places for these tourists to stay while here, and would rather kick them out of downtown to a hotel on Kenmount Road.

And I also challenge you to find a mid-sized to large city that doesn't have a parking problem downtown. People have to get over the idea that there's going to be one parking spot downtown for every individual in the city, it isn't possible. It can be somewhat of a challenge in St. John's from time to time, but I've never actually had to turn around and drive away from downtown because I couldn't find a spot.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by A325 View Post
Originally I thought Groupe Germain were in on this so I was kinda of hoping the hotel would look like their hotel in Quebec City but with some modern elements:

Maybe that is not really "Colonial" but I like the concept of "old meets new" for St. John's.

I'm not sure who is doing Philip Pratt's renders these days cause I think he's retired (especially jusging by his gmail business account on the bottom of every page). Given his age he's probably not in tune with the latest architectural software packages. At this very preliminary concept stage they are good enough to get the idea across. I'm sure they'll improve as the project progresses.
I totally agree. I am infatuated with contemporary architectural design exploring the idea of old meets new. With that said, I want something old in the equation, instead of faux-old. haha

And you're right about Pratt - haha, he's a pretty old guy and surely not up-to-date on all of the tech. We will just hope the quality of the renderings improve (for credibilities sake).

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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
As for the treatment of the façade, it also reminds me of throwing a multi coloured table cloth over an ugly table. Maybe it will be curiously odd or even ugly, but not worse than what already exists.
I agree. Maybe it will be ugly. But I would prefer something more experimental and funky that is ugly than something that is just ugly... I think 'curiously odd' would be great though! I think any attempt at reinventing something defunct should be embraced for creativity's sake!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsell View Post
The bottom line here is that no matter what this addition will ultimately look, like the reality is that it will extend an 11 story wall along the waterfront and set a precedent that could lead to that wall being further extended. Remember the Fortis proposal, hmmm, perhaps they should come back to the table with a revised 11 story “block” instead of the 15 story tower, and the hotel at 123 Water, didn’t they scale back from 11 stories to 8? Where has that left them?
Ahhh - I'm going to have to call fear-mongering on you. Yes, they are circumventing current regulations, but they are also doing a service to the City by reinventing one of the ugliest structures in the downtown district.

These 3 stories can't really be compared with the Fortis proposal for the DT-Eastend...

Also - indeed they are twisting current regulations, but have you ever considered that the regulations in place are out-dated and ineffective?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Townie709 View Post
Very clever...

Haha I disagree with this point though, I have a feeling this proposal will see very little opposition. It virtually destroys nobodies view of the harbour and sadly that is all that our selfish citizens care about. Everyone else is in support of it because it takes an old eyesore that everyone hates and turns it into a different kind of an eyesore that we'll hate in another 40 years

Seriously though, I think this will turn out alright and will see very little opposition.
There will be mixed support. But I'm sure there will be lots of opposition. Any development in this part of Water Street will cause a fight. But I trust the opposition will lose on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajcoffey View Post
Here is almost 5 minutes of video talking to people downtown about the proposal.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada...ID/2391432465/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly View Post
"Do we really need another hotel downtown. People keep complaining about parking."

Oh boy...

And I also challenge you to find a mid-sized to large city that doesn't have a parking problem downtown. People have to get over the idea that there's going to be one parking spot downtown for every individual in the city, it isn't possible. It can be somewhat of a challenge in St. John's from time to time, but I've never actually had to turn around and drive away from downtown because I couldn't find a spot.
Wow - that was a frustrating video. The first 2 were pretty middle-of-the-road and if they had any negative comments, they were a product of the journalist's manipulative wording - "but we're going to lose parking actually..." he'll say trying to instigate some emotional reaction.

The last guy is just annoying. Do people not realize that hotels are built when there is a demand for hotel rooms? haha It's not at random. It's called micro-economics. Demand leads to supply. And maybe the developer doesn't want to build parking! haha too often does the "public" confuse public and private business when talking about development.

But perfect point re downtown parking. It can be annoying. But it's annoying in every City. With that said, I always find a spot sooner or later.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 8:15 PM
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My sister was the little blonde one with the high voice in the video! I'm surprised she had a pretty positive opinion towards the subject. As one of the other women said though, 351 should ease some of the 'problems' that might arise with the 50 parking spaces they take away. Once the public becomes aware that theres a lot more pros than cons there shouldn't be much of an opposition.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 8:17 PM
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Alas, rational thinking doesn't always prevail.

Many members of the public aren't interested in pros and cons. They've already decided their position (and it's never a good thing to be inflexible while on either side of the debate!)
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 8:32 PM
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I love how 50%+ of that video is the woman who clearly stated she had no opinion on the matter, being prodded to discuss concerns about the development.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I love how 50%+ of that video is the woman who clearly stated she had no opinion on the matter, being prodded to discuss concerns about the development.
Very manipulative interview. "You don't have an opinion? Alright, here are all these negative things how do you feel now?"

In all honesty, do the public even get to park in Atlantic Place Parking? I assume it's probably filled by office personnel for Atlantic Place and Scotia Center by 9am.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 9:05 PM
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Here is the corresponding CBC article (including the video linked above).

Last edited by grovesNL; Jun 14, 2013 at 9:20 PM.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 9:13 PM
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The proposed mesh for the building: http://www.wstyler.com/html/architectural.html

I managed to make out the logo in the bottom left picture:

It's a steel wire mesh that at it's best can project images with small led's? Seems cool!
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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 9:16 PM
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The proposed mesh for the building:
Nice!

Video Link
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 9:18 PM
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Here is the corresponding CBC article (including the video linked above).
Interesting. Of all the things CBC could have quoted in their article they go with that?
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 9:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly View Post
In all honesty, do the public even get to park in Atlantic Place Parking? I assume it's probably filled by office personnel for Atlantic Place and Scotia Center by 9am.
AP Parking has reserved spaces for special permits, then has monthly payments for regular permits (which are usually given out by businesses), then paid parking (hourly rate) for those without permits. It does fill up pretty fast in the morning, but sometimes there are at least a few spots available during the day. I've parked there midday sometimes (in the higher sections) for paid parking without a problem. Many people don't attempt to park there at all because they're unfamiliar with the parking garage.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2013, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsell View Post
Forget for a minute the colors, forget for a minute the materials, forget for a minute the attempt to add some value to the property, what you really have here is a blatant attempt to dazzle and confuse in order to circumvent regulations.

The bottom line here is that no matter what this addition will ultimately look, like the reality is that it will extend an 11 story wall along the waterfront and set a precedent that could lead to that wall being further extended. Remember the Fortis proposal, hmmm, perhaps they should come back to the table with a revised 11 story “block” instead of the 15 story tower, and the hotel at 123 Water, didn’t they scale back from 11 stories to 8? Where has that left them?

This is not so much the thin edge of the wedge but more of a very THICK edge of the wedge.

I blame council for this as much as anyone, their attempt to rezone the AP Garage site due to its “historical” use as a parking lot has forced the developer’s hand to come back with a proposal that enhances the value of their investment. (The details in the document outline the process that was taking place behind closed doors).

My guess is that given their “druthers” SONCO would much rather bulldoze the garage and put up a nice hotel (within the guidelines) but this council is so obsessed with parking that they want to force the issue.

I have a feeling that the loudest fireworks on the 4th of July will be at the public meeting at City Hall, not over the skies of Washington.
Sounds good to me if Fortis came back with another proposal for Water Street and a better proposal came forward for 123 Water.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2013, 1:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
Nice!

Video Link
cool. the video is like an acid trip though!
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2013, 11:59 AM
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cool. the video is like an acid trip though!
haha it is.

I like the mesh. Based on the design plans, it doesn't seem like they intend on doing anything too multi-media-oriented. However, I find that these kinds of installations can do a lot to animate the City on a Friday or Saturday night. It would definitely animate the harbour front at night.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2013, 2:12 PM
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Yeah if it is the actual mesh that lights up as opposed to lights being shone on colored chicken wire, than I have much higher hopes for this proposal, especially at night! I think it would look really cool to have a giant discoball in the center of the city haha. It would definitely liven up Harbour Drive during the night. And if they decided to make some cash of of it, we could have a giant advertising board, visible from signal hill
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2013, 3:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Townie709 View Post
Yeah if it is the actual mesh that lights up as opposed to lights being shone on colored chicken wire, than I have much higher hopes for this proposal, especially at night! I think it would look really cool to have a giant discoball in the center of the city haha. It would definitely liven up Harbour Drive during the night. And if they decided to make some cash of of it, we could have a giant advertising board, visible from signal hill
yeah all the conversation by council was how cool and creative the lighting will be, so I'm confident that it will be something interesting .. and lets be honest anything there will improve that piece of SHYT
I'm excited to learn more and I'm not gonna jump at any conclusions this early .. I mean if Shannie is excited hahhaha it can't be too bad!
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