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Old Posted Jul 24, 2013, 4:09 PM
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Smile NEW YORK | Port Authority Bus Terminal Replacement

Midtown Bus Master Plan could usher in PABT replacement
By Benjamin Kabak

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“The development of a Master Plan underscores the Port Authority’s commitment to make the Bus Terminal a world-class facility and bus transit the most reliable mode of access to midtown Manhattan,” said Port Authority Chairman David Samson. “While the Port Authority has already begun the work of revitalizing the Bus Terminal, including the recent acquisition of top-shelf tenants like Starbucks and Cake Boss Café and the installation of WIFI in the South Wing concourse, this comprehensive approach is the best way to ensure the Bus Terminal keeps pace with future passenger growth over the next fifty years.”

Setting aside the hilarity of considering Starbucks and Cake Boss Cafe to be top-shelf tenants, the Port Authority should assess if its infrastructure can keep up with bus commuting over the next fifty months, let alone fifty years. With 65 million people passing through the Port Authority Bus Terminal each year, the structure, this monstrosity that breaks up the city grid, is nearing the end. What the future holds though is anyone’s guess.

In announce the new Midtown Bus Master Plan, Port Authority identified a series of goals in addition to expanding, repairing or even replacing the terminal building. The study, to be conducted by Kohn Pedersen Fox and Parsons Brinckerhoff, will look to integrate the bus terminal into the development to the west. Right now, Port Authority is very focused on sending its customers east, but with the growth in Hell’s Kitchen and Hudson Yards, the west demands attention. “Modernizing the bus terminal will keep it apace with other public investments in the area and enable it to accommodate increases in customers and commerce,” the PA said.
I'm so excited right now, can't wait to see this POS get torn down!

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  #2  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2013, 4:49 PM
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We discussed this over in the tower thread. They've already done studies, and this is yet another study. Ultimately, the terminal will be renovated for sure. It won't be replaced because it's too vital, has direct connections to the tunnel, and there just isn't another site for it.

The current buiding is no Grand Central, but is not as horrible as many like to make it out to be either. I use the terminal often. Like Penn Station, it should be opened up to more natural daylight, but like Penn Station, its basically a multi-level shopping center with "gates".
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Old Posted Jul 24, 2013, 6:11 PM
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I know this may sound like a dumb question by are so many people taking the bus when there are subways running all through NYC?
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Old Posted Jul 24, 2013, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rail>Auto View Post
I know this may sound like a dumb question by are so many people taking the bus when there are subways running all through NYC?
These are generally buses that go to New Jersey or parts of the city that are not serviced by the subway. it is a very heavily used terminal.
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Old Posted Jul 24, 2013, 10:49 PM
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I know this may sound like a dumb question by are so many people taking the bus when there are subways running all through NYC?
Close NJ suburbs across the Hudson north of the Jersey City / Hoboken border have no access to rail. This means tens of thousands of commuters have to take the bus in. It is literally jammed every morning and every evening. That's why extending the 7 to Secaucus with a stop in Weehawken and then Union City is desperately needed. They can build a new terminal.. but there simply isn't capacity in the HOV lane approaching the Lincoln Tunnel.
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Old Posted Jul 25, 2013, 12:13 AM
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It's the busiest bus terminal in the world, 8000 buses per day, and 225,000 passengers per day, according to Wiki, but yeah, it is awful in every way possible. Anything would be an upgrade.
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Old Posted Jul 25, 2013, 5:49 AM
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I am surprised it is the busiest in the world. I would have thought somewhere like Bogota, Mexico City, or Caracas would have the busiest. Maybe their bus lines are just far more decentralized.
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Old Posted Jul 25, 2013, 8:13 AM
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its just an incredibly clever bldg that gets a tremendous job done in such a small, compact space. i have no complaints about it at all, all things considered. i just hope they don't mess up the flow when they eventually build a tower over it. thats going to be some crazy project to watch rise for sure someday.
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Old Posted Jul 28, 2013, 3:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 401PAS View Post
These are generally buses that go to New Jersey or parts of the city that are not serviced by the subway. it is a very heavily used terminal.
Its also the greyhound terminal
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Old Posted Jul 30, 2013, 3:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
its just an incredibly clever bldg that gets a tremendous job done in such a small, compact space. i have no complaints about it at all, all things considered. i just hope they don't mess up the flow when they eventually build a tower over it. thats going to be some crazy project to watch rise for sure someday.
Same here. I really don't get the hate for it. It's well air conditioned and is relatively clean, one can even sit on the floor while waiting for a bus. I like that I can grab a quick snack while I wait for my bus and never step outside, which is great whenever it's too hot or freezing cold out.
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Old Posted Jul 30, 2013, 4:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rail>Auto View Post
I know this may sound like a dumb question by are so many people taking the bus when there are subways running all through NYC?
To Boston, DC, Harford, all over the NE of the U.S. pretty much. The prices are pretty good too for a day trip to any of these cities. Much like every mass transit station in NYC, this one does need a overhaul. Its still impressive given the capacity in such a dense local that it works with a good record.
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Old Posted Jul 30, 2013, 4:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
its just an incredibly clever bldg that gets a tremendous job done in such a small, compact space. i have no complaints about it at all, all things considered. i just hope they don't mess up the flow when they eventually build a tower over it. thats going to be some crazy project to watch rise for sure someday.
The whole city amazes me when it comes to just moving people around. A daily ridership of 5 million plus for the subway. Something like 700,000 between Grand Central, PATH, NY Penn. Then you got the airports,buses & waterways. Its just a complex and efficient system. Like a ant colony really
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Old Posted Mar 23, 2014, 7:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tubeworm View Post
Crain's New York:

Port commish wants new bus terminal, not WTC
A Port Authority official calls for switching funds from World Trade Center rebuilding to a billion-dollar expansion of the badly overcrowded station that serves 200,000 commuters a day.

BY DANIEL GEIGER
MARCH 21, 2014 1:42 P.M.


A step in the right direction!
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Old Posted Mar 23, 2014, 4:47 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
The whole city amazes me when it comes to just moving people around. A daily ridership of 5 million plus for the subway. Something like 700,000 between Grand Central, PATH, NY Penn.
Almost 9 million for the subway, per the APTA numbers. And almost 700k in Penn alone.

The PABT has to be redeveloped. It's a completely absurd situation with hundreds of buses all over the neighborhood idling. Probably the best solution is just taking the buses out of Manhattan, and doing the subway extension to Secaucus, where a bus terminal can be built.
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Old Posted Mar 23, 2014, 4:55 PM
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Why aren't the Feds funding this important tranportation project?

Why does the PA have to choose between this and the WTC, which was also the Fed's failure to protect this country that caused it in the first place?
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Old Posted Mar 23, 2014, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Eidolon View Post
A step in the right direction!
Yes, but at what expense? Certainly shouldn't be that of the WTC redevelopment.

I'm glad the PABT is receiving some fresh attention - there's no doubt improvements (and vast ones at that) are needed. I don't feel though that reallocating funds meant for the WTC redevelopment will be the right way to go about that. Two totally different projects that serve two totally different needs.
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Old Posted Mar 23, 2014, 5:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dac150 View Post
Yes, but at what expense? Certainly shouldn't be that of the WTC redevelopment.

I'm glad the PABT is receiving some fresh attention - there's no doubt improvements (and vast ones at that) are needed. I don't feel though that reallocating funds meant for the WTC redevelopment will be the right way to go about that. Two totally different projects that serve two totally different needs.
As I said in the WTC thread, normally I'm not a fan of public subsidies of private development. I'm also not a fan of the PA's disastrous mismanagement of the WTC rebuild. That being said, with all the money that has been spent on the WTC site so far, it would be silly to abandon it right now, especially considering that the PA would have a lien on WTC3 - it's not as if the money is "lost" per se - it's just tied up in another project. The WTC is a fairly unique project in terms of it's design and it's origins nd given the scope of what happened on 9/11, it's best for Lower Manhattan (and NYC as a whole) to get the WTC back online.

The Bus Terminal is an unmitigated disaster, but I have to think there are other ways to fund it than by diverting funds away from the WTC. A good friend of mine worked in Massachusetts state government for years - he was of the opinion that every time a state agency said it had run out of money or something to that effect, it was because of comical (and criminal) mismanagement, waste and fraud, not because of actual revenue shortfalls...
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Old Posted Mar 23, 2014, 5:57 PM
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I think the PABT is fine the way it is, just perhaps needs a refreshing of design. But if it is functionally successful, why mess with it?

This is different from Penn Station, which while functional, is just a crappy place to wait for a train
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Old Posted Mar 23, 2014, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Why aren't the Feds funding this important tranportation project?

Why does the PA have to choose between this and the WTC, which was also the Fed's failure to protect this country that caused it in the first place?
Probably because it's buses, and the Feds would rather fund light rail projects in Oklahoma City that will get 5,000 riders as opposed to bus projects that will benefit 100 times as many riders.
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Old Posted Mar 23, 2014, 6:43 PM
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Probably because it's buses, and the Feds would rather fund light rail projects in Oklahoma City that will get 5,000 riders as opposed to bus projects that will benefit 100 times as many riders.
Crawford, I wholeheartedly agree!! The Federal Transit Administration should delve out transit dollars to where it is most needed and would benefit the most people. This is not the system in place today. A cost benefit analysis for the Port Authority Bus Terminal or any formula system that looks at hard numbers would be such a better use of federal funds than just pissing it away on places that don't even value transit.

Both Penn Station and the Port Authority Bus Terminal are an embarrassment as the gateways to New York City. They both need major capacity improvements and brought into the 21st century.

I am very intrigued at the proposal to extend the 7 line into Secaucus. That could reduce bottlenecks at Penn Station, PABT, Lincoln tunnel, NY Transit and PATH. It would also take a lot of idling buses off the streets of NYC.
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