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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2014, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I think the PABT is fine the way it is, just perhaps needs a refreshing of design. But if it is functionally successful, why mess with it?
Both the functionality and appearance of the PABT are outdated and have been so for quite some time.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2014, 2:52 PM
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An expansion of the bus terminal (sort of)...


http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2014...r-bus-terminal

Port Authority Wants to Build Bus Terminal Annex


By Mathew Katz
April 1, 2014


Quote:
The Port Authority hopes to build a $400 million addition to the city's bus terminal in an effort to speed trips for roughly 30,000 passengers daily, according to officials and documents.

The agency's proposed Galvin Plaza Bus Annex would hold 100 buses in a depot on a vacant Port Authority-owned lot on the north side of West 39th Street, between 10th and 11th avenues, officials said. The facility would have direct connections to the Lincoln Tunnel and the Port Authority Bus Terminal, letting buses bypass city streets entirely.

The annex would help relieve pressure on the over-capacity bus terminal, especially during emergencies, officials said.

During Hurricane Sandy, when subway, train and vehicle tunnels flooded, buses traveling through the Lincoln Tunnel provided one of the only ways to get between New York and New Jersey — and the bus terminal filled up fast. After the storm, the terminal that normally serves about 233,000 passengers daily served an additional 60,000 people daily, officials said.

"The Port Authority Bus Terminal was just flooded with people trying to get in and out — it was so full people couldn't get into the building," said Andrew Lynn, the agency's director of planning and regional development.

Many buses that drop commuters off in New York in the morning can't find parking in Manhattan, and are forced to return to New Jersey until the evening rush hour, Lynn said, causing more traffic.

The proposed facility would allow buses to be parked and ready to go, letting officials feed them into the bus terminal one after another instead of clogging up city streets or looping around the cavernous terminal.

"Traffic backs up, service becomes unreliable," Lynn said. "During a peak period, 200 buses an hour can be fed into the terminal using the facility — that's a one-third increase in peak period capacity."

The Port Authority applied on Friday for a Federal Transit Administration grant meant to prepare for emergencies resulting from climate change, which would cover $230 million of the cost of the enclosed bus parking facility.

The plan already got a thumbs-up from locals: Community Board 4 wrote in a March 27 letter to the agency that it supports the hub.

"By further ensuring a resilient trans-Hudson transit network, the Galvin Plaza Bus Annex will make Manhattan’s central business district itself more resilient, providing benefits to the city of New York and the entire region," the board wrote.

If all goes well, the Port Authority hopes to build and open the annex by 2020, officials said.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2014, 8:21 PM
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New bus terminal overdue in a new century

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
July 14, 2014

Quote:
Midtown Manhattan urgently needs a brand-new, world-class bus station, and until recently that has been the impossible dream.

But now some wheels are turning that could someday -- cross your fingers -- make the depressingly dingy Port Authority Bus Terminal a thing of the past.

Here's the big thing: The West Side construction boom has driven the value of air rights over the old terminal and other agency properties in the area heavenward.

This means that a new $600-million Port Authority Bus Terminal might be possible.
This also means that a new $400-million bus garage in the area -- to be used as a staging area -- could help alleviate street congestion. So far, the idea is merely a suggestion by a few Port Authority commissioners. But it's time to bring back the awe.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 7:38 PM
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http://online.wsj.com/articles/port-...des-1406174566

Port Authority Bus Terminal to Get $90 Million for Upgrades

By ANDREW TANGEL

July 24, 2014 12:02 a.m. ET

Quote:
The Port Authority Bus Terminal is poised to get $90 million in improvements aimed at easing the plight of New Jersey bus commuters.

Board members of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey on Wednesday authorized spending $90 million from its capital budget to upgrade the 1950s-era structure in Midtown Manhattan.

Port Authority officials said they would detail improvements for the bus terminal at the agency's September board meeting. Executive Director Patrick Foye said the authority would likely initially focus on improving the bus terminal's heating and air-conditioning systems, restrooms, and cellphone and wireless Internet service. "It's not acceptable to anybody," Mr. Foye said.

Port Authority officials also expressed support for replacing the bus terminal altogether, but the project would likely cost more than $1 billion and could take as long as a decade or 15 years to complete
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 7:57 PM
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The bus terminal needs to be replaced. The parking facility would also help if it is built by 2020.

Last edited by Perklol; Jul 25, 2014 at 8:17 PM.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2014, 10:20 PM
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Why would it take 15 years?
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Eveningsong View Post
http://online.wsj.com/articles/port-...des-1406174566

Port Authority Bus Terminal to Get $90 Million for Upgrades

By ANDREW TANGEL

July 24, 2014 12:02 a.m. ET
Lipstick on a pig.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 1:35 AM
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Lipstick on a pig.
Nah, they were too cheap and opted for red Sharpie instead.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 4:08 AM
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I think the $90 million worth of upgrades is an indicator that the PABT will not be razed and replaced in the foreseeable future. It's a shame really since the current terminal is quite the eyesore. No one is thinking big for transportation infrastructure.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 5:32 PM
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Money, dollars, funding, etc.

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Originally Posted by Eveningsong View Post
I think the $90 million worth of upgrades is an indicator that the PABT will not be razed and replaced in the foreseeable future. It's a shame really since the current terminal is quite the eyesore. No one is thinking big for transportation infrastructure.
Money makes the world go round.

They (MTA, PANYNJ, etc) are not TALKING big because they already have a number of major projects they have to finish, some of which are overbudget and late (putting it mildly)

AFAIK the PANYNJ is already overextended with it's borrowing /bondage. I think the MTA is in ~the same situation.

Regarding the PRIORITIES of the ONGOING infrastructure improvements by these public benefit agencies: why is the PANYNJ raising the Bayonne Bridge deck NOW? What's the prediction for WHEN would future generation container ships (for Port of Netwark) NOT fit under the existing deck???

Priorities involve politics & politicians. NY & NJ have/had a large number of "interesting" politicians, to put it mildly. These politicians appoint the upper admin of these state & bi-state agencies. Some of these appointments do not seem to be the "best & brightest" (to put it mildly).

For example, why did NJTransit store a many rail cars & locomotives in the Meadowlands and Hoboken during SuperStorm Sandy? If you're familiar with either of these areas, they are "prone to flooding", for GENERATIONS.

That being said, the current PABT should make an interesting contrast to the announced building plans extending north from Hudson Yards.


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http://secondavenuesagas.com/2014/07...-gaping-wound/
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 5:53 PM
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Yep oh well its something a few people will care about in the next few years it seems...
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 7:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post
Regarding the PRIORITIES of the ONGOING infrastructure improvements by these public benefit agencies: why is the PANYNJ raising the Bayonne Bridge deck NOW? What's the prediction for WHEN would future generation container ships (for Port of Netwark) NOT fit under the existing deck???
That would be because of the Panama Canal expansion, which will allow larger ships to transit and is expected to be completed near year.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 7:36 PM
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Priorities - budgetary constraints, but container ships...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eveningsong View Post
Yep oh well its something a few people will care about in the next few years it seems...
I think a lot people do, will & should care about the decrepit/obsolete PABT.

Regarding PANYNJ PRIORITIES, the Bayonne Bridge Deck raising is budgeted at ~$750M.

The PANYNJ lists the follwing benefits for this $750M project:

Quote:
Benefits to our Region

“Raise the Roadway” has significant long-term benefits:

Larger, more efficient ships calling on our ports will mean cleaner air for our neighbors.
Wider lanes, shoulders and median dividers will make the bridge safer for drivers.
A bikeway and walkway the entire length of the bridge will make traveling the bridge easier for all of us.
Stairs will be replaced with access ramps.
New piers, a new roadway deck and new approach roads will ensure the bridge will be built to last for generations.
The design allows for future mass transit service.
AFAIK, the PANYNJ's Bayonne Bridge was in no danger of collapse, though it is a very old bridge.

WRT "The design allows for future mass transit service." - OK. Are there any PLANS to run mass transit (I assume light rail) between the two states over the Bayonne Bridge??? I assume further that the light rail would be NJ Transits' Hudson-Bergen Light Rail. See my earlier comments egarding NJTransit's political appointees and the results.
AND, the smaller, less efficient, container ships will still bring foreign goods to the Port of Newark because that's where the NYC metropolitan area is. I don't think we EXPORT much besides scrap metal from NYC ports...

Balance that against a functionally obsolete PABT (mass transit-bus, since 1950) that sees 225K? passengers per workday.
Quote:
"The terminal is the largest in the United States and the busiest in the world by volume of traffic,[2]"
"The terminal has reached peak hour capacity, leading to congestion and overflow on local streets. As it does not allow for layover parking, buses are required to use local streets or lots, or return through the tunnel empty. The PANYNJ has been unsuccessful in its attempts to expand passenger facilities through public private partnership and in 2011 delayed construction of a bus depot annex citing budgetary constraints. In June 2013, it commissioned an 18-month study that will consider reconfiguration, expansion, and replacement options.[6]
Note that the new shiny towers of Hudson Yards (and adjacent development) a-building will have to impact the PABT: layover "buses are required to use local streets or lots"
-wikipedia
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2015, 12:40 AM
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http://www.capitalnewyork.com/articl...cost-estimates

Plans for a new bus terminal confront steep cost estimates





By Dana Rubinstein
Mar. 16, 2015


Quote:
It could cost more than $10 billion to replace the Port Authority Bus Terminal at its current location with a bigger, better facility, according to a Port Authority study whose preliminary results will be presented to the board of commissioners Thursday.

That's 10 times the $1 billion price estimate some officials circulated last year.

Were the construction and environmental review process to begin tomorrow—which it won't, because there is no funding on the immediate horizon—it would take at least 15 years to complete, according to three Port Authority officials who would only speak on background with Capital.

Asked for comment, Port Authority spokesman Chris Valens said in an emailed statement: "In 2040, more than 42,000 commuters each hour—the capacity of Citi Field—will use the Port Authority Bus Terminal during the afternoon peak. Through the master planning process, the Port Authority and leading private sector consultants ... are focused on creating a roadmap to address the significant demand for trans-Hudson bus capacity and ensure that hundreds of thousands of commuters each day will continue to help power the economy on both sides of the river for generations to come."

Port Authority officials say one of the reasons the full-replacement option on the existing site is so expensive is because of its ambition: namely to fully accommodate the rapid increase in ridership anticipated in the coming decades (an expectation based both on population projections and bus ridership growth that has, in recent decades, already rendered the Eighth Avenue terminal over capacity).

To meet the demands of ever-rising bus ridership, Port Authority officials are talking about building a five-level terminal that, with ramps, staging and parking, would cover 3.5 full city blocks. The existing three-level facility covers slightly more than 2 blocks.

But first, the Port Authority would have to build a temporary terminal to the west of the current station, then move all bus operations to that facility to allow for the demolition and replacement of the existing terminal.

Upon its completion, the temporary terminal would be used for bus parking, thereby cutting down on the number of buses that have to return to New Jersey after dropping off passengers in Manhattan in the morning, only to make the return trip in the evening, clogging up the tunnel and city streets along the way.

The proposal might also feature a skyscraper on the new terminal's north end.

Other options, which planners believe would cost between $8 billion and $10 billion and take between 10 years and 15 years to complete, include several variations. One could push the terminal a little west, thereby allowing the development of two skyscrapers on Eighth Avenue, with the proceeds from development-rights sales going to help fund the terminal. Another could move the entire terminal west of Ninth Avenue and give all of the existing terminal site over to development.


As even casual users of the facility will tell you, the existing terminal is over capacity and sub-modern.

The terminal handles more daily passengers than Grand Central Terminal. It struggles with delays, reliability issues and buses spilling onto neighborhood streets creating traffic congestion and air pollution. Its structural slabs are deteriorating, and it has a more than $100 million operating deficit.

"Daily operations have become increasingly a delicate balance of fragile elements," Diannae Ehler, who manages the bus terminal and adjacent Lincoln Tunnel, said at a recent City Council hearing.

She also said that by 2020, bus ridership to midtown is estimated to grow between 9 percent and 18 percent. By 2040, it's expected to grow by up to 51 percent.

Because New Jersey residents comprise 12 percent of Manhattan's workforce, the bus station is an essential, if unwieldy and aesthetically unpleasing, part of the region's economy.

In recognition of that, officials have been trying to replace the terminal since the mid-1990s.

In 1999, the Port Authority agreed to sell the air rights over the terminal to a real estate company, which would, in turn build a tower on top of the terminal and help finance the restoration of the bus station underneath.

Nothing much came of that except, perhaps, the enduring concept that a good way to help fund a new bus terminal is to auction of the air above it.

The concepts the Port Authority is considering continue to involve air rights sales, though no one believes that will provide anything near the amount of money required to rebuild the station.


A full rebuild, regardless of whether it's on the existing site, would require significant federal funding as well as support from state and city partners.

Not only is no federal politician championing that sort of thing just yet, but the west side has competing needs.

Amtrak, for example, is seeking federal support to build a new cross-Hudson rail tunnel, called Gateway, to midtown Manhattan. It will cost at least $15 billion and is also not yet funded.

The Port Authority is also exploring other, more short-term ideas, like putting bus storage and staging facilities in other locations in New York and New Jersey, developing a satellite terminal for inter-city buses elsewhere in Manhattan, and making more use of the Hudson River ferries.
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2015, 1:02 AM
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Exciting times for New York! One of the reasons behind Bloomberg's big push to extend the 7 line to Secaucus was to allow the construction of a new bus terminal integrated into the station that would ease the pressure of the PABT.

It would have cut down on the number of buses using the Lincoln tunnel to enter Manhattan to reduce congestion and the need for bus parking/staging.

I would hate if an entire city block is demolished to make way for an even larger station.
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2015, 2:57 AM
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It's not really a loss though if the terminal is used to cover up the spaghetti of access ramps to the Lincoln Tunnel. Granted, half the current ramps are for the existing terminal. I'd also hopes that any plans to move the terminal west would include adding the missing infill stop on the 7 line.
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2015, 4:20 PM
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Better long term solution would be to spend that $8-$11B on increasing rail capacity, get buses off the GWB and out of the Lincoln Tunnel, and get those bus riders onto trains. Dedicating 3.5 city blocks to a bus terminal, regardless of where it is, is a pretty awful use of Manhattan real estate, esp in Midtown/Hudson Yards. But that would require expanding rail capacity on NJT, which I can't imagine the PA would want to pay for.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2015, 4:30 PM
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What about allowing development over the several blocks worth of land where the ramps to the terminal are located? I would have to imagine that said land could fetch an enormous sum for the PA, even if developers had to pay to sink ramps that rose above ground level.

The idea about expanding rail is good, but how would it be done? The only way the city could really expand rail travel would be to add lines and rebuild stations (I'm looking at you, Penn Station) which, as we all know, would take decades and cost tens of billions of dollars, and probably wouldn't be done right anyways.
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2015, 5:13 PM
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Who owns those though?

Ideally, I don't even think there's a bus terminal in Manhattan at all. It just gobbles up way too much real estate, and the buses consume way too much capacity in the Lincoln Tunnel and on the GWB. The current PA is a full city block, then there's the block and a half directly to the southwest that are just on-ramps. Imagine how much the PA, assuming they own all that land, could sell all that for? Of course, you'd need to build a facility on the other side of the Hudson, and a new rail tunnel under the Hudson.

But if you use Gateway's $15B price tag as a baseline, take into consideration the money the PA would receive for selling the land the facility currently occupies in Manhattan, and how much it would cost to build a new bus facility in NJ, just from ball parking, that sounds like it would cost roughly the same as the current plan.

But all that makes far too much sense for it to ever actually happen.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2015, 9:52 PM
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Replacing it would be a waste of time and money. Maintain and improve the existing structure.
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