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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 8:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rlw777 View Post
^Most of top of the building would fit "purest definition of what a public space is"

That's wonderful. Peachy. Amazing.

So the architects have expanded the spacial limitations of a plaza. And while that's good, it does not change the fact that museums aren't inherently public spaces—although they can be under certain situations.
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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 8:56 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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What I wish is that this building were more horizontal and less vertical. If it were just a little more spread out it would be able to pass as the Indiana Dunes which would be an extremely relevant "organic" inspiration to draw from. Take what nature gives you, but make it permanent with stone and steel.
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 9:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
What I wish is that this building were more horizontal and less vertical. If it were just a little more spread out it would be able to pass as the Indiana Dunes which would be an extremely relevant "organic" inspiration to draw from. Take what nature gives you, but make it permanent with stone and steel.
Kind of like Aqua Tower and Wisconsin Dells. I agree with you on the verticalness of the current design. Less ant hill, please.
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by alex1 View Post
That's wonderful. Peachy. Amazing.

So the architects have expanded the spacial limitations of a plaza. And while that's good, it does not change the fact that museums aren't inherently public spaces—although they can be under certain situations.
I wasn't arguing the point.
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 9:07 PM
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For the Lucas museum, I'm not sure how much the flanks of the building will ever be used as "public space". The roof of the Krannert Center at U of I is a giant public plaza, but hardly anyone ever went up there. It looks like a place that everyone will walk on once for the experience, then never visit again. For a city the size of Chicago that probably means a steady stream of people, like at the Bean. But it just screams novelty, not true civic asset.

And the first time some kids go skateboarding down all those swoops and curves, up will go the big guard rails that block all that "public space" off and ruin the aesthetic.

I don't know, architecture like this always feels like a gimmick rather than a real building.
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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 9:14 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Mr. Ma should really visit Indiana Dunes:


http://michiganexposures.blogspot.co...ana-dunes.html


If they lower the slope of the building enough then they can open the entire structure to the public to climb just like the trails at Indiana Dunes, but man made made stone and steel instead of nature made sand and vegetation. How cool would it be to have multiple entrances to the museum (almost like the Art Institute's recent bridge entrance) that can be accessed by scaling the massive rock surface. If the observation deck is really free and open to the public then why not make it possible for the public to approach this free amenity from literally any direction by ascending straight from the park onto the new surface of the building.

It would also be awesome if he softened the edges between the park space and the structure by having the stone "dissolve" into the grass by gradually increasing the spacing of the stones and allowing grass to grow between them until you reach a full lawn. Think the gradient between the completely sand portions of the dunes and the completely grass/brush portions of the dunes. Nature rarely creates hard dividing lines, this building, if done properly, should have no hard and fast borders.
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 9:24 PM
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id definitely be in favor of something more low-slung.

was hoping we would get something more in line with this:


http://s3.amazonaws.com/europaconcor...hi_2_large.jpg

Last edited by Via Chicago; Nov 5, 2014 at 12:37 AM.
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 9:37 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Mr. Ma should really visit Indiana Dunes:

...It would also be awesome if he softened the edges between the park space and the structure by having the stone "dissolve" into the grass by gradually increasing the spacing of the stones and allowing grass to grow between them until you reach a full lawn. Think the gradient between the completely sand portions of the dunes and the completely grass/brush portions of the dunes. Nature rarely creates hard dividing lines, this building, if done properly, should have no hard and fast borders.

This. Exactly.

My hope is that Gang will be involved in this process of the building meeting the landscape.
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 10:20 PM
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That Ordos museum is cool but I can't see that sort of surface existing in Chicago, the requirements for handrails, anti-skate, anti-vandalism, etc would just kill the purity of that stone surface.

Likewise, Studio Gang's grass-paved tailgate plaza is a neat idea, but tailgating for a fall/winter sport necessarily involves snow removal. I don't know how you make grasspave work with salt and plows.
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  #70  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Mr. Ma should really visit Indiana Dunes:
...

This isn't a project in Indiana; this is Illinois.

When MAD designs a world class project in Indianapolis, he can draw inspiration from the Dunes all he wants, but for a project here in Illinois, inspiration should be drawn locally. You don't fucking go out of state for inspiration on a project like this.

What's more, Ma explains his inspiration in the video posted on the project's website, rather in-depth too. He wants this building to be specific to Chicago and references the city at every level. So what the hell does something 50 miles away from our state's border have to do with the City of Chicago???
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rlw777 View Post
I wasn't arguing the point.
I get that. You were saying that the plaza was "public space". And I was reiterating the point that museums aren't inherently public spaces.
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  #72  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2014, 11:56 PM
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...

This isn't a project in Indiana; this is Illinois.
Aqua was a project in IL which was influenced by the landscape in WI. Were you okay with that?
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  #73  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 12:00 AM
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If you watch the interview with him, he says hes drawing inspiration from the lake's waves which sounds as bull-shitty as anything else, since aside from indeed being an undulating mass Im not seeing it. Honestly the whole trying to rationalize a gigantic futuristic manmade blob made in CAD as having anything to do with nature is a little silly no matter how you slice it
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 12:01 AM
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.You don't fucking go out of state for inspiration on a project like this.
OK, so a natural feature that would be visible to the naked eye from the top of this structure should be ignored because of a political boundary?
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 12:02 AM
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I like the design. One of my first thoughts was that it is evocative of the sand dunes that made up the shores of Lake Michigan around Chicago before the city of Chicago. In that regard I find it to be very contextual and blending with its surroundings. I agree with LDVW's comments about creating a gradient with natural vegetation. I also think using multiple natural shades of stone would be great and create a wonderful mosaic effect. This is a billion times better for the city and the public than the parking lots that are there now.
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
When you have a multi billion dollar personal budget there isn't as big of an emphasis on cost cutting. I hope it is made out of stone blocks, that would make this design fucking epic. If this is like a melted pyramid of actual stone blocks that would fucking be insane. People just don't build things using that method anymore. It would be particularly ironic in Chicago given our structural engineering history. I just want to know what the silver thing on top is? Observation room? Mock up of the Death Star flight deck? Lucas' private party palace?

I don't know what to think yet, but it sure is weird. As Ardecila said, it all depends on the interior. I have no idea what is going on here, so I can't tell you how it makes me feel.
This is my take on this too. This won't be VE ed. No need for a Billionaire to do that. I do think this will evolve though. More information will need to be processed before I have a firm opinion. At first glance the height is worrisome. We will see how this plays out.
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  #77  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 12:12 AM
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Aqua was a project in IL which was influenced by the landscape in WI. Were you okay with that?
I'm not a fan of Aqua beyond its superficial cool-ness. Any the comparison is not really congruent. You're comparing a low-end apartment and hotel development designed by a local architecture firm with a world class, extremely high profile museum designed by a world-renowned starchitect.

What's more, the conceptual form of Aqua was supposedly inspired by striation patterns in limestone, found all along the shores of the Great Lakes. NOT a landscape in Wisconsin. Beyond that, the design of the building itself was derived according to very specific site conditions. Period.

Again, the two projects are vastly dissimilar and share nothing in common.

My point was simple. Ma already described his design inspiration: the city, it's parks, and the connection between the two.
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
...

This isn't a project in Indiana; this is Illinois.

When MAD designs a world class project in Indianapolis, he can draw inspiration from the Dunes all he wants, but for a project here in Illinois, inspiration should be drawn locally. You don't fucking go out of state for inspiration on a project like this.
aside from whether its a good comparison or not (fwiw chicago has its own small natural dunes as well, and would probably be much larger if we werent constantly paving over them with buildings like this), architects and all artists for that matter draw inspiration from the totality of their lives lived. shapes, forms...theres only so many ways you can arrange a liveable space without being derivative of something already done. at the end of the day, the stuff that gets spouted off about "organic forms" and being drawn from the immediate land is just marketing fluff. i remember when Calatrava announced the Spire and everyone went gaga because he had like, seashell doorknobs and oh my this represents such a clear connection to the natural area around Chicago (as if the U.S. dosent have 95,000 miles of coastline where the same metaphors could be ham-fistedly applied as well)

in short: youre reading too much into this. its just as much a surface level "cool" design as aqua if not more so. its starchitecture, the guy is a brand and its what Lucas wanted. dude booted up CAD (or whatever theyre using these days), stretched some stuff around, and voila. id worry less about the inspiration (hes clearly trying to create something that looks vaguely Star Wars-y) and more about whether it actually works as an inviting, attractive, and functional building while still respecting its surroundings.

at the end of the day it just dosent look as refined as his other designs. that metal crown or whatever you want to call it looks especially tacked on and out of place with the rest of the building. get rid of that, lower the height, smooth it out a bit more, and i think it would be a lot nicer looking.

my 2 cents

Last edited by Via Chicago; Nov 5, 2014 at 12:37 AM.
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
What I wish is that this building were more horizontal and less vertical. If it were just a little more spread out it would be able to pass as the Indiana Dunes which would be an extremely relevant "organic" inspiration to draw from. Take what nature gives you, but make it permanent with stone and steel.
Agree 100%. But I would like to see the bright white surface toned down. It looks like a temporary concert tent from far away.
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2014, 1:08 AM
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In case of emergency, break glass and call Bjarke Ingels.

Hopefully George can be convinced it's time for a B.I.G. change in direction.
     
     
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