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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2015, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
It actually seems like a good fit. There's already a good amount of low to mid rise residential in the area, and it would be replacing a poorly used strip center. That shopping center is probably one of the strangest places around downtown. It's so uncharacteristic of the area.

And their argument against it is kind of funny. "Neighbors worry they won’t be able to see the skyline anymore" - so a sort of "we won't be able to see the forest for the trees" argument. I like seeing the forest, I just don't want it to thrive and grow in my direction...

Also the same old tired argument of more traffic. While it's true there will be some more traffic, people will still go out on foot or ride a bike. I don't know about you other guys who ride your bike, but riding a bicycle through a neighborhood is much more preferable to driving a car through one. Not to mention most of the auto traffic would be headed in the other direction (away from the neighborhood) to access I-35 and downtown. It's kind of a weak argument really. And I'm not sure where they get their 10,000 cars a day number from. That seems very high even when you consider the planned grocery store, which by the way I would imagine would be heavily used by residents of the neighborhood.
Emphatic agreement with all the above. It's a perfect location for something that seems well designed and much needed. Love the analogy about "forest for the trees," how apt. And that traffic hyperbole is hilarious! A few hundred new residents and a grocery store are going to generate 10,000 vehicle trips through the neighborhood? I need to invest in that grocery store and get a piece of the action! And, apparently, everyone who shops and lives there is going to go on several sight-seeing tours of the neighborhood every day. Are we all this goofy with exaggeration when it comes to the pursuit of our own personal causes? I hope not!

The comments are surprisingly sane. This one is dripping with sarcasm and is perfectly written so as to confuse the obtuse:
"I don't know about you but I like having a rundown CVS and Bingo parlor instead of a grocery store. Can you really trade those East Austin institutions for easy access to food and housing for seniors? I think not."

Sweet.
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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2015, 2:55 AM
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I live in that area and would love this development to happen. This area really is a grocery desert. It is apropos that this site once housed a Safeway. There hasn't been anything of consequence on this site since Safeway pulled out of Texas in the late '80s and left the site abandoned. There has long been rumblings about this, as well as the lack of development on East 12th in comparison to East 11th, which were once in similar states of disrepair in the 90's. Well, more recently, the drug market @ 12th/Chicon is gone, and the associated dealers, crackheads, crackhouses, and brothels have been replaced with a coworking space, food trucks, an art gallary, restaurants, a few bars, and a lot of new housing in the area. Between that, and all the redevelopment planned for the areas of downtown nearby (capitol area, medical district, brackenridge redevelopment, waller creek-related redevelopments), the areas around the frontage road were bound to get denser, as was started by the new apartment complexes in the area.

During their design commision presentation, the developers said they were working with TxDOT in terms of developing plans to use part of the space to add new through lanes through lanes to 12th street from the frontage road.
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2015, 10:55 PM
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I live in that area and would love this development to happen. This area really is a grocery desert. It is apropos that this site once housed a Safeway. There hasn't been anything of consequence on this site since Safeway pulled out of Texas in the late '80s and left the site abandoned. There has long been rumblings about this, as well as the lack of development on East 12th in comparison to East 11th, which were once in similar states of disrepair in the 90's. Well, more recently, the drug market @ 12th/Chicon is gone, and the associated dealers, crackheads, crackhouses, and brothels have been replaced with a coworking space, food trucks, an art gallary, restaurants, a few bars, and a lot of new housing in the area. Between that, and all the redevelopment planned for the areas of downtown nearby (capitol area, medical district, brackenridge redevelopment, waller creek-related redevelopments), the areas around the frontage road were bound to get denser, as was started by the new apartment complexes in the area.

During their design commision presentation, the developers said they were working with TxDOT in terms of developing plans to use part of the space to add new through lanes through lanes to 12th street from the frontage road.
I like your attitude. I used to own a cute little house off of Manor Rd. near the Vortex Theater, and if something like this were to have been planned for that neighborhood I may not have danced for joy, but I certainly wouldn't have actively opposed it. It's unfortunate that a majority of humanity places such an irrationally high value on the avoidance of disruption.

Regarding the "through lanes" you mentioned, what does this refer to more specifically? A new road between 11th and 12th, or...?
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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2015, 2:24 AM
verybadgnome verybadgnome is offline
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Originally Posted by Tech House View Post
I like your attitude. I used to own a cute little house off of Manor Rd. near the Vortex Theater, and if something like this were to have been planned for that neighborhood I may not have danced for joy, but I certainly wouldn't have actively opposed it. It's unfortunate that a majority of humanity places such an irrationally high value on the avoidance of disruption.

Regarding the "through lanes" you mentioned, what does this refer to more specifically? A new road between 11th and 12th, or...?
Wherever they can TxDOT wants to put in additional capacity via express lanes:

"Evaluating alternatives for additional capacity by using express lanes (auto and transit) to provide reliable travel times for all users and create a dependable and consistent route for transit and emergency responders."

I'm thinking they might need to push the frontage road a little farther east to accomodate these new toll main lanes.

I'm still not clear on the height restrictions of this non-CBD tract. Anyone know? If this were proposed on E. Cesar Chavez it probably wouldn't make it to first base knowing the neighborhood associations in the post-Jumpolina era.
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  #45  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2015, 8:30 PM
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The Planning Commission was scheduled to hear this one again on 12/08, but it was postponed until 01/12 so more traffic analysis can be done.

My analysis is that a full service grocery store and several hundred apartment units will create more traffic than an abandoned grocery being used for bingo. So what. Let's get rid of an eyesore and build this already.

http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=243701
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2015, 8:11 PM
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Originally Posted by The ATX View Post
The Planning Commission was scheduled to hear this one again on 12/08, but it was postponed until 01/12 so more traffic analysis can be done.

My analysis is that a full service grocery store and several hundred apartment units will create more traffic than an abandoned grocery being used for bingo. So what. Let's get rid of an eyesore and build this already.

http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=243701
The traffic will increase regardless of whether this project is built. My analysis is to build it, because people who live in the area will benefit from the grocery store and the apartments will be located in an area where you don't need a car. The walk score for that block is high (~89).
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2015, 10:49 PM
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The traffic will increase regardless of whether this project is built. My analysis is to build it, because people who live in the area will benefit from the grocery store and the apartments will be located in an area where you don't need a car. The walk score for that block is high (~89).

If new traffic is the the only key metric for new development decisions, then nothing should ever be built other than a mass transit system. Some of these metrics are just horrible... change is inevitable and we need metrics that can direct change for the better - not attempt to stop it which results in a pile of hot trash development, sprawl and laggard infrastructure.
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  #48  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2015, 5:42 PM
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  #49  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2015, 5:56 PM
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I love this bit: "[Residents] barely survive with the car traffic lined up for Franklin Barbecue"

I'd argue that's a little bit melodramatic. CM Houston has been... Interesting...
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  #50  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2015, 8:38 PM
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I have driven by Franklin's many times around 10 in the morning and never seen a line of cars, only a line of people. I also can't get around over 10k in daily traffic, the loss of a beautiful canopy of trees, and a city further divided. Hack...bs...
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  #51  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2015, 9:11 PM
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Yeah, the only way I get to Franklin is by bus honestly.

In the event of a grocery store I'd be wiling to bet a good chunk of those 10k car trips would be made by existing residents of the area.

The tree argument is also unconvincing. I'm no arborist but I have a hard time believing that this one development will starve all those trees of sunlight, because at most I can see the trees losing a few hours of sunlight in the afternoons, and at that it would depend on the year.

At any rate I did write my CM urging their support for the development but as I'm in D9, I'm not particularly optimistic.
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  #52  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2015, 9:22 PM
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I've lived on East 12th since 2004 and as near as I can tell the biggest increase in traffic has come from the Mueller development and people using 12th to get to and from downtown to Airport Blvd. I really don't think a grocery store on the I35 access road will have much impact on 12th Street traffic.
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2015, 10:06 PM
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You can do daily traffic counts now for roads in Google Earth Pro. They used to charge for Google Earth Pro, but it's free now. Anyway, the four streets that surround this property are:

I-35 access: 24,000 cars per day (last count 2005)

East 11th Street: 11,803 (2012)

East 12th Street: 10,559 (2012)

Branch Street: 401 (2012)

So I would imagine their 10,000 trips per day for the project is grossly overestimated. I know there isn't a lot in that neighborhood to begin with, but to suggest that one single development will be 100% of all the traffic in the neighborhood on 2 streets, and 50% of the traffic on another is clearly not accurate.

Taking further things into consideration with another feature Google Earth Pro has now, is to show you the census tract populations of a neighborhood. So the population of the tract where this property is is 1,397.

This project will have 472 units. Let's assume every resident in the development is married. That's a fair assumption, though, not definite. So that's 944 new residents. However, it's likely that most of the people living there will only have one car at best. So let's say that even if 70% of the estimated 944 residents living there own a car, that comes to 660.8 cars. Even if each resident were to make 3 trips a day, that would still only be 1,983 trips.

By the way, if the 1,397 residents who currently live in that census tract make three trips per day, it comes to 4,191. That's assuming each one of them has their own car. If you assume that 70% of them have a car the number drops to 2,934.

So that's 4,917 car trips per day for this project and that whole census tract, assuming 70% of the residents of both drive a car 3 times a day.

By the way, something else to consider that I didn't bother with, those census tract totals are for every age level. So I doubt there's any 9 year olds driving around in those neighborhoods. So that drops the numbers even lower, in addition to the elderly who rarely drive either.

Most of the traffic from this new development will exit the neighborhood and use I-35, as well as East 11th and 12th into downtown. Very little of the traffic will likely venture into the neighborhood since almost everything east of this development is residential only.

The grocery store will likely be the one thing that adds the most traffic, but if it does, then you can say the area residents appreciate it and find it convenient. So they'd be shooting themselves in the foot not to support it. And it's not like it's going to attract outsiders to the area. I mean, I already have grocery stores in my neighborhood, i really don't need to drive 5 miles away to another one. Even for downtown residents on the west side of downtown, they'll likely go on using Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and Blue Royal.

As for the tree statement about the shade, that's bunk. I hope the developers do a shadow study based on the seasonal positions of the sun and call in an arborist to disprove it.
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2015, 5:33 AM
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Kevin, you clearly don't have the same sources as they do...so you're obviously not in the know.
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2015, 6:42 AM
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I suppose that's true, but I was using the first thing I could think of for traffic counts. And Google Earth was it. I would be interested to know where they got that 10,000 a day trip number from. They don't cite their source either.
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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2015, 8:20 AM
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Haha, I was being sarcastic, but they may actually have up-to-date counts. Not sure. Nonetheless, my sarcastic point was to say that people often use their own version of facts to make an argument. Given that most of us on here agree that the arguments against One Two East and the shopping center, etc., are mostly bogus, I would assume that they're pulling numbers out of thin air.
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2015, 5:13 PM
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I don't have a car. I'm interested in this development because it's a potential place for me to live in the future (because of the walk score factor). If the goal is to reduce traffic, we need more projects like this.
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2015, 7:09 PM
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Austin Towers has a good post about the opposition:

http://austintowers.net/news/
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2015, 11:21 PM
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At any rate I did write my CM urging their support for the development but as I'm in D9, I'm not particularly optimistic.
I wrote the city council and well and encourage others to do the same. I think the council often gets an unbalanced view of public opinion because the neighborhood groups routinely have the loudest voices even when they do not represent the majority opinion.
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2015, 5:45 AM
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So this new grocery store will be built half a mile north of the 55k sq ft grocery store in the Saltillo development? Not sure if there is enough demand for both.
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