HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Texas & Southcentral > Austin

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #61  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2015, 5:49 PM
MichaelB MichaelB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North edge of Downtown
Posts: 2,637
This isn't about traffic or grocery stores ( and we can use mulitple choices for groceries in the area). It's about encrochment. It's about a loss of a way of life. It's a class struggle. It's a neighborhood struggle. While I am all for this being built ( with grocery strore) I am very aware that the feeling of a way of life being eroded is real.
I have been in that situation many times myself.
So, I prefer to be very aware and sympathetic to that.
Oftern neighborhoods know that if they give an inch the next developer will indeed ask for the proverbial mile.
Perhaps it's time to start offering up more stringent development guidelines within neighborhoods in order to gain more freedom on the edges of neighborhoods.
I'm not sure what that is..... but it sure beats the hell out of just yelling "NIMBY" all the time.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 12:13 AM
drummer drummer is offline
德克萨斯人 y'all
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Asia by way of Texas
Posts: 1,902
I agree, but on some degree (and not to be callous - not my intention at all), change is inevitable, especially given the proximity to the city core. I do think neighborhoods have every right to be a part of the discussion. I do think their thoughts should be weighed heavily in the planning and development. However, I don't think that nothing should be built (not that that's what you're saying). Growth is a healthy part of a city's life (preaching to the choir here). It can be done in a good way, but change will happen no matter what. It's better to be a part of the change and help craft it in a way that works with the neighborhood rather than fight it (or worse, ignore it) and be disappointed when it doesn't go your way.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 2:11 AM
MichaelB MichaelB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North edge of Downtown
Posts: 2,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummer View Post
I agree, but on some degree (and not to be callous - not my intention at all), change is inevitable, especially given the proximity to the city core. I do think neighborhoods have every right to be a part of the discussion. I do think their thoughts should be weighed heavily in the planning and development. However, I don't think that nothing should be built (not that that's what you're saying). Growth is a healthy part of a city's life (preaching to the choir here). It can be done in a good way, but change will happen no matter what. It's better to be a part of the change and help craft it in a way that works with the neighborhood rather than fight it (or worse, ignore it) and be disappointed when it doesn't go your way.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 4:22 AM
verybadgnome verybadgnome is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Holly neighborhood, Austin
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummer View Post
I agree, but on some degree (and not to be callous - not my intention at all), change is inevitable, especially given the proximity to the city core. I do think neighborhoods have every right to be a part of the discussion. I do think their thoughts should be weighed heavily in the planning and development. However, I don't think that nothing should be built (not that that's what you're saying). Growth is a healthy part of a city's life (preaching to the choir here). It can be done in a good way, but change will happen no matter what. It's better to be a part of the change and help craft it in a way that works with the neighborhood rather than fight it (or worse, ignore it) and be disappointed when it doesn't go your way.
I would also like to add that I have more respect for the other party when they are honest about the real reason(s) they oppose an idea rather than manufacturing (10k trips a day?) data to support their cause. I know politicians do this as a matter of course but I would hope neighborhood associations be above these tactics.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 5:00 AM
Digatisdi's Avatar
Digatisdi Digatisdi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Downtown Austin
Posts: 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
[...] I would hope neighborhood associations be above these tactics.
One would certainly hope, unfortunately the ANC has shown some really awful sides of itself recently. I have no idea if the ANC proper is involved but what Ingle tried to pull in that article really bugs me, and I'd argue it's a symptom of serious problems in local NAs when their representatives are willing to go to such lengths.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 5:47 AM
drummer drummer is offline
德克萨斯人 y'all
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Asia by way of Texas
Posts: 1,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
I would also like to add that I have more respect for the other party when they are honest about the real reason(s) they oppose an idea rather than manufacturing (10k trips a day?) data to support their cause. I know politicians do this as a matter of course but I would hope neighborhood associations be above these tactics.
I wholeheartedly agree. Honesty is the best foot to put forward in life in any situation. Unfortunately, people are generally greedy and selfish on both sides.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 6:03 AM
KevinFromTexas's Avatar
KevinFromTexas KevinFromTexas is offline
400 feet tall
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: sunshine and taco trucks on every corner
Posts: 43,780
We should know better by now than to assume anything that is planned is definite before it actually exists. I am of course talking about the possibility of there being two grocery stores so close to each other. Besides, we live in a capitalist society, and the early bird gets the worm. Whichever development can land the grocery store first and make it a success will push out the other one.
__________________
it's just a jump to the left and then a step to the right.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2015, 6:53 AM
Tech House's Avatar
Tech House Tech House is offline
Harbinger of Skullduggery
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
We should know better by now than to assume anything that is planned is definite before it actually exists. I am of course talking about the possibility of there being two grocery stores so close to each other. Besides, we live in a capitalist society, and the early bird gets the worm. Whichever development can land the grocery store first and make it a success will push out the other one.
I think both stores can make it. We've got so much more growth coming into that entire area, including the redevelopment of Brackenridge and the medical school, and there's also increased demand for better access to quality food as the buying ppwer of nearby neighborhoods is rapidly increasing. Also, I think both of these stores, but especially 1-2 East [I freaking HATE that name], will attract shoppers who are on their way to other parts of town. For example, someone who works downtown and commutes north on 35 might find it more convenient to stop for groceries right by the freeway instead of going to a store in their own neighborhood. There will also be a bustling daytime business for prepared foods. Ideally these would be two fairly distinct grocers so that they're not just cannibalizing one another's customer base. An HEB and a Sprouts, for example, could complement one another without having too much detrimental overlap of target markets.

The Plaza Saltillo location would be a nice opportunity for a new store from a chain that isn't in the Austin area yet, to enter the Austin market with a splash. It's going to be a highly visible location for getting the attention of the prized young, trendy, upwardly-mobile "opinion maker" demographic, and it will inevitably be a hotspot during SXSW and similar events that spill over into east Austin. It would be foolish to put a traditional supermarket there, it needs to be something that fully integrates into the scene and takes advantage of the possibilities that the location presents. A variation on the Central Market theme could work beautifully, incorporating outdoor seating, decks, and at least one music venue.

Last edited by Tech House; Dec 16, 2015 at 7:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2015, 5:26 AM
Flatiron's Avatar
Flatiron Flatiron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Austin
Posts: 170
Austin should learn from other cities:

www.salon.com/2015/04/05/the_incredible_shrinking_megacity_how_los_angeles_enginereed_a_housing_crisis/

Substitute "Austin" for "L.A." in this excerpt from the article:
And yet, L.A. is much, much closer to its residential capacity than the more compact and more populous NYC. Los Angeles has created a crisis of artificial scarcity; a burden for renters, a drain on economic growth, and an environmental disaster. The city has planned itself into a cage.

Projects like One Two East must be built.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2015, 7:33 AM
drummer drummer is offline
德克萨斯人 y'all
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Asia by way of Texas
Posts: 1,902
Interesting.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2016, 5:04 AM
Tech House's Avatar
Tech House Tech House is offline
Harbinger of Skullduggery
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 749
That's a fascinating article, and while I know we've got a lot of that type of problem here, I don't *think* we're anywhere near that level of crisis.....(?) But this illustrates one of the major reasons why it's a big problem that we're getting hemmed in by sprawling single-family suburbs and massive corporate developments, because these tend to be the most tightly controlled and zoned with lots of CC&Rs, making it difficult to even remodel your own house, let alone build a high-density development anywhere near the cul-de-sac dwellers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2016, 2:47 AM
verybadgnome verybadgnome is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Holly neighborhood, Austin
Posts: 172
I have been emailing the neighborhood groups mentioned on the anti-one two website as to the whereabouts of this traffic study, but so far no dice. Just as irksome is that website has no author or contact information, just blathering in the free market of unsubstantiated "facts."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 10:18 PM
The ATX's Avatar
The ATX The ATX is offline
Right here, right now
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Suburban Low-rise
Posts: 4,993
This rezoning case was postponed until 02/09 because traffic issues are still being worked on.
__________________
Austin on Urban Planet:
http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forum/215-austin/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 4:22 AM
The ATX's Avatar
The ATX The ATX is offline
Right here, right now
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Suburban Low-rise
Posts: 4,993
Here's an article from a couple days ago about the developers seeking debt and equity to finance the project.

https://www.multihousingnews.com/pos...ustin-project/
__________________
Austin on Urban Planet:
http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forum/215-austin/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2016, 6:13 AM
austlar1 austlar1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Austin
Posts: 2,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by The ATX View Post
Here's an article from a couple days ago about the developers seeking debt and equity to finance the project.

https://www.multihousingnews.com/pos...ustin-project/
I think it is impressive that the developers are willing to be so transparent about how they plan to secure financing. It is very refreshing to see this kind of thing. Now it will be interesting to see whether their optimism is well placed as the economy seems to be approaching a bit of a rough patch. I sure hope this thing gets built. I like the diversity of the housing options.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2016, 1:18 AM
The ATX's Avatar
The ATX The ATX is offline
Right here, right now
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Suburban Low-rise
Posts: 4,993
For those interested in development minutiae...

This is the backup file for this Tuesday's Planning Commission vote on the increased height for the project. It includes the traffic analysis report which was the reason for the latest vote delay.

http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=247838
__________________
Austin on Urban Planet:
http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forum/215-austin/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 5:44 PM
verybadgnome verybadgnome is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Holly neighborhood, Austin
Posts: 172
Well now we have good reason to believe that the 10,000 figure was BS from the NIMBYs:

"Credits for trips assigned to the existing land uses, plus deductions for non-automotive trips (bicycle, transit, pedestrian) result in an adjusted number of 5,188 net additional trips."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2016, 7:53 PM
KevinFromTexas's Avatar
KevinFromTexas KevinFromTexas is offline
400 feet tall
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: sunshine and taco trucks on every corner
Posts: 43,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas View Post
You can do daily traffic counts now for roads in Google Earth Pro. They used to charge for Google Earth Pro, but it's free now. Anyway, the four streets that surround this property are:

I-35 access: 24,000 cars per day (last count 2005)

East 11th Street: 11,803 (2012)

East 12th Street: 10,559 (2012)

Branch Street: 401 (2012)

So I would imagine their 10,000 trips per day for the project is grossly overestimated. I know there isn't a lot in that neighborhood to begin with, but to suggest that one single development will be 100% of all the traffic in the neighborhood on 2 streets, and 50% of the traffic on another is clearly not accurate.

Taking further things into consideration with another feature Google Earth Pro has now, is to show you the census tract populations of a neighborhood. So the population of the tract where this property is is 1,397.

This project will have 472 units. Let's assume every resident in the development is married. That's a fair assumption, though, not definite. So that's 944 new residents. However, it's likely that most of the people living there will only have one car at best. So let's say that even if 70% of the estimated 944 residents living there own a car, that comes to 660.8 cars. Even if each resident were to make 3 trips a day, that would still only be 1,983 trips.

By the way, if the 1,397 residents who currently live in that census tract make three trips per day, it comes to 4,191. That's assuming each one of them has their own car. If you assume that 70% of them have a car the number drops to 2,934.

So that's 4,917 car trips per day for this project and that whole census tract, assuming 70% of the residents of both drive a car 3 times a day.

By the way, something else to consider that I didn't bother with, those census tract totals are for every age level. So I doubt there's any 9 year olds driving around in those neighborhoods. So that drops the numbers even lower, in addition to the elderly who rarely drive either.

Most of the traffic from this new development will exit the neighborhood and use I-35, as well as East 11th and 12th into downtown. Very little of the traffic will likely venture into the neighborhood since almost everything east of this development is residential only.

The grocery store will likely be the one thing that adds the most traffic, but if it does, then you can say the area residents appreciate it and find it convenient. So they'd be shooting themselves in the foot not to support it. And it's not like it's going to attract outsiders to the area. I mean, I already have grocery stores in my neighborhood, i really don't need to drive 5 miles away to another one. Even for downtown residents on the west side of downtown, they'll likely go on using Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and Blue Royal.

As for the tree statement about the shade, that's bunk. I hope the developers do a shadow study based on the seasonal positions of the sun and call in an arborist to disprove it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
Well now we have good reason to believe that the 10,000 figure was BS from the NIMBYs:

"Credits for trips assigned to the existing land uses, plus deductions for non-automotive trips (bicycle, transit, pedestrian) result in an adjusted number of 5,188 net additional trips."
So I guessimated 4,917 automobile trips, and the number they came up with was 5,188.
__________________
it's just a jump to the left and then a step to the right.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2016, 3:29 AM
drummer drummer is offline
德克萨斯人 y'all
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Asia by way of Texas
Posts: 1,902
Cool, build it now.
__________________
人无完人
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2016, 6:13 AM
The ATX's Avatar
The ATX The ATX is offline
Right here, right now
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Suburban Low-rise
Posts: 4,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by drummer View Post
Cool, build it now.
It appears that the Planning Commission is OK with this project now. But I believe this will have to go to City Clowncil, so all bets are off. I hope I'm wrong about that. The opposition (or at least their speaker) is Mr. Manbun the aging hipster.
__________________
Austin on Urban Planet:
http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forum/215-austin/
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Texas & Southcentral > Austin
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:44 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.