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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2016, 7:26 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
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Originally Posted by Flyers2001 View Post
I don't know if it was previously discussed, but how much do you think the advance in trauma treatment has affected the Homicide Rate?
im sure its helped a lot. its probably more useful to look at shootings as opposed to murders.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2016, 11:12 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
im sure its helped a lot. its probably more useful to look at shootings as opposed to murders.
For Chicago what I could find was this:
In 2002, there were 4176 shootings and 648 homicides
In 2014, there were 2084 shootings and 407 homicides

The homicide numbers are totals, so some are not gunshots.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2016, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by j korzeniowski View Post
yeah, just saw that 3 people were killed today. a wednesday. and it was snowing out all day.

this year is going to be ugly.



everyone was a few days behind.. Tribune says 24 as of today

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...114-story.html
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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2016, 4:49 PM
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Baltimore, MD is at 7
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2016, 7:14 PM
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2016, 7:51 PM
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Philadelphia is at 7.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2016, 11:50 PM
Visualize Visualize is offline
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Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
For Chicago what I could find was this:
In 2002, there were 4176 shootings and 648 homicides
In 2014, there were 2084 shootings and 407 homicides

The homicide numbers are totals, so some are not gunshots.
So much for the idea of advancement in trauma care, unless the nature of the shootings have changed. According to these statistics the shootings are actually becoming deadlier.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jan 16, 2016, 9:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Visualize View Post
So much for the idea of advancement in trauma care, unless the nature of the shootings have changed. According to these statistics in the shootings are actually becoming deadlier.
I don't think trauma care is what resources should be allocated too, nor should gunshot wounds be the reason for advancement in medical care. There are definitely systemic issues at hand and I think its in part due to poverty levels, gang affiliation, gun ownership/access rates to people who really shouldn't have access, and crime enforcement being spread too thin in some areas; and too much enforcement in others.

It's quite the conundrum as to where resources should be allocated to bring violent crime down, and what the best starting point is. It's definitely interesting to watch from afar.

It's also great to see the reduction from 2002-2014, and I hope it's a lasting trend in Chicago
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  #89  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2016, 3:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Visualize View Post
So much for the idea of advancement in trauma care, unless the nature of the shootings have changed. According to these statistics the shootings are actually becoming deadlier.
Chicago has closed A LOT of hospitals and treatment centers making the distance victims have to travel before surgery can take place much greater. This surely plays a role in there being no great difference since 2002.

I watched a documentary that stated Dr's in Chicago have saved a great number of lives that most likely wouldn't have been possible in previous decades due to medical science advancement and the vast amount of experience they have treating gun shot victims. I can't remember the hospitals but a few have Dr's who specifically treat gun shots to the head. There are so many variables at play with survival that I wouldn't eliminate trauma care as having a significant impact on survival rates because of statistics.

Any number of factors could contribute to the homicide rate being similar like increasing travel time to reach adequate care.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2016, 12:48 AM
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Ok we in Canada & elsewhere all know that America's Murder Rates are the highest in the Developed world, but has any American on this Forum every been killed b4 that anyone knows of? Has any American on here had a brush with death?
Just curious plz weigh in lol.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2016, 1:22 AM
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Ok we in Canada & elsewhere all know that America's Murder Rates are the highest in the Developed world, but has any American on this Forum every been killed b4 that anyone knows of? Has any American on here had a brush with death?
Just curious plz weigh in lol.
Back in the 90s when Philly truly lived up to it's title of 'Killadelphia', both of my parents were held at gunpoint. However I'm pretty sure that was a common thing back then. On top of that, one of their friends(who was a professor at UPenn) was murdered right by Penn Campus.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2016, 6:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriusly View Post
Chicago has closed A LOT of hospitals and treatment centers making the distance victims have to travel before surgery can take place much greater. This surely plays a role in there being no great difference since 2002.

I watched a documentary that stated Dr's in Chicago have saved a great number of lives that most likely wouldn't have been possible in previous decades due to medical science advancement and the vast amount of experience they have treating gun shot victims. I can't remember the hospitals but a few have Dr's who specifically treat gun shots to the head. There are so many variables at play with survival that I wouldn't eliminate trauma care as having a significant impact on survival rates because of statistics.

Any number of factors could contribute to the homicide rate being similar like increasing travel time to reach adequate care.
trauma care very definitely involved. Many advancements since Chicago routinely tagged 700-800 etc.

more doctors here trained in what amounts to battlefield medicine. also improvements once they open your chest up that someone more qualified than me could explain
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  #93  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2016, 7:01 PM
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Back in the 90s when Philly truly lived up to it's title of 'Killadelphia', both of my parents were held at gunpoint. However I'm pretty sure that was a common thing back then. On top of that, one of their friends(who was a professor at UPenn) was murdered right by Penn Campus.
Oh wow thats actually kind of terrifying.. If I had to say the scariest moment I've ever experienced in Canada was probably when there was a lockdown @ a Mall I was just at a few hours prior (When they said there could have potentially been a person in the building with a Gun). Other than that I can't think of anything else :/

Story -> http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/11/01...l-near-calgary
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  #94  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2016, 7:55 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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^^^ Most people on this forum are not likely to live or work in the areas that are dangerous in these cities. In Chicago I only know of one frequent forum member who lives in a relatively dangerous area on the South Side. Everyone else lives on the North Side or gentrifying areas. There are still incidents in these areas, but you are not likely to be involved.

For example, during the murder wave of 2012 there were multiple incidents where people were shooting at each other on my block on Chicago's relatively safe NW side. I know all the people on my street and it was a very interesting and real peak into the dynamics of gangs and crime. All the shootings were related to one kid whose parents lived down the block from me. He got out of jail after 18 months of being put away for drugs and other gangbanging related offenses and the shootings began almost immediately and all targeted or were perpetrated by him. He started trying to claim our street and area as Latin Kings territory, but traditionally everything on this side of Milwaukee Ave is Spanish Cobras. There's none living on my block, but some live down around the corner, so it's not even like he was that close to them, Milwaukee ave is just an invisible line and if you are in one gang or another you stay on your side or else.

As soon as he crossed the line, people starting coming IN to my neighborhood specifically to shoot at him. He would go around tagging things with the Cobra's sign and bring all his buddies over to bang on the corner by my house. My neighbors are all ex-gang members who grew out of it and moved out here from their old hood around United Center to specifically avoid these types of problems and would go up to them when they are hanging out on the corner and tell them to bugger off. One night the oldest brother in my neighbor's family goes out there after dark to chase them off and one of the little dumbasses friends is wasted and started shooting at my neighbor and hit him in the shoulder. He was fine, but is an illegal immigrant (has lived here for 38 of 39 years and barely has any accent) so he wouldn't talk to the cops and thus the little shit gets away with it. He knew exactly who did it, but the system makes it impossible to prosecute or get cooperation so the crime continues.

Eventually the neighbors banded together and got him caught by calling the cops on him every time we saw him up to shit. We even got the alderman to start the condemnation process on his parents house for code violations. He got out of jail again after two years and whatdayaknow? Start hearing gunshots again. Luckily this time he was out for his nightly shooting and pulled a gun out on Milwaukee Ave and starts shooting at a couple of Cobras. Well there happened to be an Uber driver with a concealed carry license sitting right there waiting for a customer. He saw it all happen and pulls out his gun and caps dummy who actually missed everyone he was aiming at. Now numnuts is in the hospital and going straight to jail when he gets out. Uber+concealed carry = backup cops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maru2501 View Post
trauma care very definitely involved. Many advancements since Chicago routinely tagged 700-800 etc.

more doctors here trained in what amounts to battlefield medicine. also improvements once they open your chest up that someone more qualified than me could explain
I think I remember reading during the occupation of Iraq that many doctors/medics with the Army are sent to Chicago's (and probably other major American cities) hospitals for their residency to gain experience with this type of trauma. Chicago's South and West sides also see a lot of injuries from industrial accidents due to the industrial nature of these areas. Those types of injuries also provide valuable experience with burns, shrapnel, crush injuries, etc that are also common on the battlefield. It's also true that many medical advances in treatment of these wounds have occurred in these same hospitals including things like inflatable tourniquets and blood coagulant laced bandages.

Last edited by LouisVanDerWright; Jan 20, 2016 at 8:15 PM.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2016, 8:52 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
Eventually the neighbors banded together and got him caught by calling the cops on him every time we saw him up to shit. We even got the alderman to start the condemnation process on his parents house for code violations. He got out of jail again after two years and whatdayaknow? Start hearing gunshots again. Luckily this time he was out for his nightly shooting and pulled a gun out on Milwaukee Ave and starts shooting at a couple of Cobras. Well there happened to be an Uber driver with a concealed carry license sitting right there waiting for a customer. He saw it all happen and pulls out his gun and caps dummy who actually missed everyone he was aiming at. Now numnuts is in the hospital and going straight to jail when he gets out. Uber+concealed carry = backup cops.
not sure if i agree with your conclusion, but that is a whole other discussion/argument.

your whole post is a fascinating and simultaneously infuriating read, thank you for posting. these frigging gangbangers. . .

i clearly remember that uber-driver-shooting-incident from the news.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2016, 3:16 AM
Tosin007 Tosin007 is offline
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Originally Posted by j korzeniowski View Post
not sure if i agree with your conclusion, but that is a whole other discussion/argument.

your whole post is a fascinating and simultaneously infuriating read, thank you for posting. these frigging gangbangers. . .

i clearly remember that uber-driver-shooting-incident from the news.
Ya I agree with you that was a pretty interesting read, wow the Gun culture is just so different in the U.S. I'd say Realistically few people own Guns up here in Canada. & The Majority of People that do are either law enforcement or Criminals (The small percentage of them anyways). Most Canadian Gun owners have long Guns I think. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong). Anyway our Homicide Rates are stupid low anyways so I don't really think we need as many Guns as American do. (Not yet if ever). One of my friends that has lived in both countries is adamant that the U.S. has more crime simply cause it has more people but I told him that's not completely true either because of the Toronto example. (Its a heavily populated city also with low levels of crime).
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  #97  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2016, 3:22 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by j korzeniowski View Post
not sure if i agree with your conclusion, but that is a whole other discussion/argument.

your whole post is a fascinating and simultaneously infuriating read, thank you for posting. these frigging gangbangers. . .

i clearly remember that uber-driver-shooting-incident from the news.
Yup, I don't actually think we should have Uber militia, but at least one good thing happened because of concealed carry. The irony is that one of the brothers actually got arrested during that time for chasing the gang bangers (who had just pulled up in front of their house and pointed a gun at his sister) down the street with a gun that he had a FOID for, but no concealed carry permit. But that was before the Supreme Court struck down the CC ban. The cops had been loitering since they kept getting so many calls, saw him running, and figured he was up to no good so he ended up getting in trouble.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2016, 4:16 PM
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  #99  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2016, 8:24 PM
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Update for Police Authorities in England & Wales, these are for the 12 months to September 2015, a slight increase in the previous year due to a bad spate of homicides in June for some reason.



Gold medal for lowest homicide rate over the 12 months goes to Durham in Northeast England which had 1 homicide among its approximately 600,000 residents.



Meanwhile the murder capital over the year was Gloucestershire which saw 9 homicides in its area home to 550,000.

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  #100  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2016, 11:39 PM
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