HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 5:13 PM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,313
Housing above fire stations: Does it make sense?

Quote:
SF supe urges building affordable housing above fire station
By J.K. DineenApril 24, 2017 Updated: April 24, 2017 5:56pm

Firefighters from Station 13, one of the busiest firehouses in San Francisco, regularly respond to calls from high-rises across the north Financial District.

Now, Supervisor Aaron Peskin is hoping the property, at 530 Sansome St., has the potential to help mitigate another emergency: the city’s affordable-housing crisis.

In a dense neighborhood where available development sites are scarce, Peskin is proposing that the city take advantage of the property’s 200-foot height limit to build an affordable-housing tower above a new fire station.

On Tuesday, Peskin will introduce legislation that separates out the property’s air rights, so that the Fire Department could continue to own the land and the station, while the Mayor’s Office of Housing and Community Development would own the air rights . . . .

If the housing plan goes forward, San Francisco would join a small but growing list of cities that are putting new housing above firehouses. Such projects have been completed in two Canadian cities, Vancouver, British Columbia; and Calgary, Alberta; as well as in Washington, D.C. . . . .

San Francisco Fire Commission President Ken Cleaveland said he would support the concept . . . .

“When you live in a dense, dense city like San Francisco, you have to use the space that you have.”
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/a...e-11095715.php

I think Sup. Peskin should have to live there. I live an unfortunate 4 or 5 blocks from a fire station and hear enough screaming fire trucks go by. To be right on top of one of the busiest fire stations in the cty, any city, seems like it would be very problematic, even with triple pane windows. I'm for putting a tower over the station, but maybe not housing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 5:22 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 42,256
If they catch fire they'll get a quick response.
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 5:38 PM
ChargerCarl's Avatar
ChargerCarl ChargerCarl is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Los Angeles/San Francisco
Posts: 2,325
Because its a Peskin proposal I'm automatically skeptical.
__________________
This Machine Kills NIMBYs
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 6:05 PM
LosAngelesSportsFan's Avatar
LosAngelesSportsFan LosAngelesSportsFan is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/a...e-11095715.php

I think Sup. Peskin should have to live there. I live an unfortunate 4 or 5 blocks from a fire station and hear enough screaming fire trucks go by. To be right on top of one of the busiest fire stations in the cty, any city, seems like it would be very problematic, even with triple pane windows. I'm for putting a tower over the station, but maybe not housing.
it would drive someone nuts.. i live a few blocks from a fire station and its going 24 / 7... cant imagine living above ome
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 6:48 PM
brickell's Avatar
brickell brickell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: County of Dade
Posts: 9,366
why is living on top of one any worse than living across from one or next to one?
__________________
That's what did it in the end. Not the money, not the music, not even the guns. That is my heroic flaw: my excess of civic pride.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 9:31 PM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by brickell View Post
why is living on top of one any worse than living across from one or next to one?
It probably isn't. I wouldn't want to do that either. But in the case of SF, the Supervisor wants to build "affordable housing" on top of it: That seems like discrimination against the less affluent or something. I bet having a fire station next door or across the street lowers poperty values too. On the other hand, it does save on homeowners' insurance. They raise your premiums if the nearest fire station is too far.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 10:35 PM
pdxtex's Avatar
pdxtex pdxtex is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,247
that seems mean. here poor people, you get to live above the firestation, and hear the trucks all night long. why don't they just upzone more residential neighborhoods. what the height restriction in some the close in neighborhoods?
__________________
Portland!! Where young people go to retire.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 8:26 AM
Minato Ku's Avatar
Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
Tokyo and Paris fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 3,747
Housings above fire station are not uncommon in the City of Paris but it's housing for firemen and their families.

Port Royal fire brigade

Menilmontant fire station

Parmentier fire station

Massena fire brigade

Even those where I don't know if there are housing or/and office above, fire brigade station are well integrated

Saint-Anne

Chateau d'Eau fire station
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 1:24 PM
hauntedheadnc's Avatar
hauntedheadnc hauntedheadnc is offline
Sentence fragments!
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Asheville, NC - "Home of the Pernicious Poem Place"
Posts: 5,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
I think Sup. Peskin should have to live there. I live an unfortunate 4 or 5 blocks from a fire station and hear enough screaming fire trucks go by. To be right on top of one of the busiest fire stations in the cty, any city, seems like it would be very problematic, even with triple pane windows. I'm for putting a tower over the station, but maybe not housing.
How long have you lived there? I live on one of only two main north-south roads that traverse my city, which means that cop cars, ambulances, and fire trucks go by house constantly. Sirens are background noise at this point. The only time I even notice them anymore is when there's dozens of each going to something major.
__________________
"Asheville air affects me like champagne; it goes to my head. I'm apt to do things for which I will be sorry in the grim dawn of New York." -- William G. Raoul, 1898
"After 30 years here, all I know is Asheville is a place where old souls and terrible angels walk among us..." -- Dale Neal, 2015
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 2:53 PM
Hamilton Hamilton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Journal Square
Posts: 362
It seems meaner to completely deny people a place to live at all than to offer them the choice of a place to live above a fire station.

This same sort of paternalitsic attitude that eliminated much of the affordable housing stock to begin with--boarding/rooming houses, SROs, tenements, micro apartments etc: Because *I* can't imagine living under those conditions, we shouldn't allow anyone the choice of living in those conditions. As a poor grad student I actually lived in a 80-sq-ft room in a traditional SRO in the Bay Area for a while, and I felt lucky that I had found such a good deal. It worked perfectly for me given my situation. I know many people who wouldn't mind living on top of a fire station in SF in exchange for slightly cheaper rent, and I even know some who would pay decent money for the privilege. Even worse are the affordable housing rules in many municipalities that say that affordable units in new developments need to have exactly the same fixtures, appliances, etc as the luxury units. Wouldn't the money spent on giving a small number of lucky affordable tenants the same luxuries enjoyed by the rich be better spent providing a larger amount of run-of-the-mill housing for a larger portion of those who are unable to afford exorbitant rents?

Of course upzoning or transferring air rights to nearby properties would probably be closer to an ideal outcome, but good luck with that.

Last edited by Hamilton; Apr 26, 2017 at 3:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 3:19 PM
eschaton eschaton is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,468
Maybe it could be specialized housing for the hearing impaired?

I don't entirely mean it as a joke. I remember in my own college town, the cheapest apartment was located directly above a pizza place which was open for awhile after the bars closed. As a result, there would be 100-200 drunk people who would congregate around the pizza place at around 1AM every single night. The apartment ended up being rented by a deaf girl who was very happy with the money she was saving.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 3:41 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,951
i don't think there are apts, but there are fire stations below office buildings around nyc.

i cant imagine trying to work above a busy station, much less live.

we do live on a main street for a hospital and that was annoying with all the ambulance sirens, so that is similar, but since the hospital unfortunately closed its very noticeably quieter as you could imagine.

so i dont have any problem with this proposal because it cant be much worse than living across the street or nearby to a busy firehouse. in fact, it may even be quieter than it is for the neighbors if they build the new apts right -- with double-pained glass and insulation and all that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 7:58 PM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc View Post
How long have you lived there? I live on one of only two main north-south roads that traverse my city, which means that cop cars, ambulances, and fire trucks go by house constantly. Sirens are background noise at this point. The only time I even notice them anymore is when there's dozens of each going to something major.
35 years
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2017, 8:21 PM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,595
It would drive me nuts to live there, but this seems like a great way to leverage limited dollars to house more people than otherwise possible.
__________________
"Everyday" as one word just means "ordinary." "Every day" as two words is about frequency.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2017, 12:01 AM
ChargerCarl's Avatar
ChargerCarl ChargerCarl is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Los Angeles/San Francisco
Posts: 2,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
It would drive me nuts to live there, but this seems like a great way to leverage limited dollars to house more people than otherwise possible.
Yep. One persons crappy living space is a another persons affordable unit.
__________________
This Machine Kills NIMBYs
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2017, 3:23 PM
brickell's Avatar
brickell brickell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: County of Dade
Posts: 9,366
Win-Win: exchange the air rights to a luxury developer for something not over a fire station. They build million dollar condos with all the best sound proofing. City gets affordable units somewhere else and those poor poor people are not getting dumped on.
__________________
That's what did it in the end. Not the money, not the music, not even the guns. That is my heroic flaw: my excess of civic pride.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2017, 7:06 PM
muppet's Avatar
muppet muppet is offline
if I sang out of tune
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London
Posts: 4,309
London Chinatown's fire station is built below a block of flats:

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2017, 8:41 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,951
^ well, there you go. good example. i'm not sure living above that is any worse than across the street.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2017, 3:42 AM
xzmattzx's Avatar
xzmattzx xzmattzx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 4,635
Wilmington just built affordable housing over a fire station. It replaced a cramped, aging, historic fire station down the street that was tough for fire trucks to get in and out of.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7589...2!8i6656?hl=en
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2017, 7:05 AM
muppet's Avatar
muppet muppet is offline
if I sang out of tune
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London
Posts: 4,309
More from London, all designed with public flats above:






















Plus gems like this:


Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:53 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.