HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Downtown & City of Ottawa

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1901  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 9:35 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,617
For the love of God, NO! Them threatening to sue should have disqualified them automatically.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1902  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 9:38 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,617
In other new, no surprise here.

Watson: No municipal money for downtown Ottawa NHL arena

OBJ staff
Jan 11, 2018 5:38pm EST


As negotiations continue to build a new home for the Ottawa Senators at LeBreton Flats, Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson said local taxpayers will not contribute a cent towards the construction of a new arena.

Speaking on CBC’s Ottawa Morning, Watson referenced a council mandate that directs the mayor and and city manager Steve Kanellakos to “protect” city taxpayers should Senators-backed Rendezvous LeBreton – which is in negotiations with the National Capital Commission to develop the 53-acre property west of downtown – look to access municipal financing.

Watson said Thursday that responsibility of building a new home for the Senators lies in the private sector’s hands.

“We’re not interested in subsidizing an arena … It’s not the public that should be putting tax dollars into that,” he told host Hallie Cotnam.

Watson’s comments come less than a month after Senators owner Eugene Melnyk said the redevelopment of Lebreton Flats is not a given, adding he's not convinced a downtown arena is a necessity for the franchise.

In December, members of the city’s business community heard how Edmonton used a public-private partnership to construct a new NHL arena in Alberta’s capital city. Edmonton taxpayers are footing the bill for roughly half of the arena project’s cost, and officials in that city said residents eventually came around to view the expenditure as “investing into a product that is going to generate revenues which are going to keep your taxes lower and bring new infrastructure and vitality to the city.”

In terms of the LeBreton Flats project, Watson said Thursday that the city will be responsible for the accompanying infrastructure and affordable housing, but the remainder of the development will be commercial space.

He did say that any new arena would likely receive similar benefits to Lansdowne Park, whereby citizens who buy a ticket to see RedBlacks games can take a free trip to the game on OC Transpo.

http://obj.ca/article/watson-no-muni...tawa-nhl-arena
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1903  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 9:42 PM
FutureWickedCity's Avatar
FutureWickedCity FutureWickedCity is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 104
I really hope this happens. the DevCore bid was miles ahead of Melnyk's proposal for condos, condos and more condos (which would probably never get built anyway in the current saturated market). I've heard people on here dismiss the DevCore bid for having too many novelties or showy components, but if you look closely at Melnyk's bid, it's filled with exactly that kind of garbage. Cheap illuminated "public art" abounds. If we want people to come to Lebreton for more tha hockey game, we need more than condos. the swimming pool idea is excellent, for one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1904  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2018, 9:48 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,265
I realize everyone is in the posturing phase with Melnyk threatening to move, Watson threatening to spend no money and the NCC demanding cash up front and both the city and NCC demanding Melnyk also pay for the cleanup. But at some point everyone has to stop trying to figure out who has the biggest antlers and start negotiating seriously.

It is not clear to me how the math would work any better for Devcore. There were hardly any potential revenue sources in their proposal and a lot of unfunded pavilions.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1905  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 12:12 AM
ac888yow's Avatar
ac888yow ac888yow is offline
Melissa: fabulous.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YOW/CYOW/CUUP
Posts: 1,788
The math making sense to you or any anyone but those involved is not pertinent.

My favourite part of the article is the Godfatheresque conclusion:

"(National Hockey League commissioner Gary) Bettman is a good friend of André Desmarais, you know,” Poulin remarked, oh-so smoothly. “I’m sure between those three guys, something could be worked out. We’re creative, you know.”

It's good entertainment if nothing more.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1906  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 2:21 PM
rocketphish's Avatar
rocketphish rocketphish is offline
Planet Ottawa and beyond
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
Second-place bidder still keen on LeBreton Flats if Sens' bid falters, but patience is waning

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: January 12, 2018 | Last Updated: January 12, 2018 3:31 PM EST


The second-place bidders for LeBreton Flats are still ready to step up if the National Capital Commission’s negotiations with Eugene Melnyk fall through, one of the group’s leaders says, but time is running out.

“We’re wondering why it’s taking the National Capital Commission so long. We’re worried they might ask for another extension, which would be ridiculous,” said Jean-Pierre Poulin, the president of Gatineau-based land development company Devcore. “There’s a process in place and it should be respected. It’s a major development and the best should be done. It should not be that complicated.”

Poulin’s bid group, called DCDLS, lost out to the Ottawa Senators’ owner’s “RendezVous LeBreton” group when the NCC picked the bid for LeBreton Flats it liked better in spring 2016.

Besides Devcore, it includes commercial developer Canderel; money men André Desmarais (of Power Corp.), Guy Laliberté (of Cirque du Soleil) and William Sinclair (formerly of JDS Uniphase) as core partners; and affiliates like the Ripley’s Aquarium company.

In a nutshell, DCDLS’s vision for 21.6 hectares of prime downtown land is flashier, riskier and backed by more money. It has more museums and public buildings in it. Melnyk’s proposal, at least as it was presented in 2016, is less adventurous and more clearly doable, heavier on the condo towers. He also has the advantage of actually owning the pro hockey team for which both groups want to build a new arena. The NCC liked that the Melnyk-RendezVous plan proposed to cover the light-rail tracks through the property.

The NCC has been negotiating with Melnyk’s group exclusively for more than 18 months and has promised a major update when its board has its next open meeting in two weeks. Just before Christmas, with talks obviously at a critical point, Melnyk mused publicly that maybe RendezVous LeBreton and the commission won’t reach a deal and the Senators will look for someplace else to build a new arena, in language vague enough to suggest that place might even be outside Ottawa.

Melnyk blusters so it’s wise not to freak out about every little thing he says, but it’s easier to summon the necessary serenity if we know we have DCDLS waiting in the hall.

Yeah, they’re still there, Poulin said Friday, by cellphone from Las Vegas where he’s checking out smart-home technologies at the huge CES electronics show. “We’ve been on the sidelines since the beginning. The group is very much united. We’re still there, still united, still have the same vision for the site and we’re willing to participate,” he said.

If the NCC turns to them, they’ll have to take another pass through their financials and confirm the participation of some of the players outside the core group (the Ripley’s Aquarium people, for instance), but DCDLS is ready to talk, Poulin said. Assuming the commission makes up its mind soon. The longer DCDLS waits, the greater the risk.

“We could lose some players and it would not be our fault,” Poulin said.

Financing a first-rate new arena, which is the core of both bids, is challenging, Poulin said.

“The NCC requires no public money (be built into any bid). It has to be private financing for every aspect of it. And that’s not easy to do,” Poulin said. Especially with Mayor Jim Watson’s having said firmly that the city’s not sinking any of its money into a Senators rink, either.

“I’m sitting right now in front of the new stadium they built here in Vegas. It’s the new milestone, the bar is at $500 million,” Poulin said.

Public figures put the construction cost for the Las Vegas Golden Knights’ shiny new hockey arena at about $470 million Cdn, but close enough. Although a privately owned sports franchise’s value is hard to peg unless somebody buys it, Forbes magazine just in December estimated the Senators’ worth at about $525 million Cdn.

So a new rink for the Senators would cost about as much as the franchise is worth. Melnyk has the team in hand but he’s not as rich as Desmarais, Laliberté and Sinclair put together.

The first time around, Melnyk said flatly, again and again, that the Senators aren’t for sale.

Poulin on Friday repeated the offers DCDLS made then: to simply hand land at LeBreton over to Melnyk and the team to build a new arena on their own; to build an arena and invite the Senators in as tenants; to buy the team if Melnyk changes his mind.

“(National Hockey League commissioner Gary) Bettman is a good friend of André Desmarais, you know,” Poulin remarked, oh-so smoothly. “I’m sure between those three guys, something could be worked out. We’re creative, you know.”

dreevely@postmedia.com
twitter.com/davidreevely

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ence-is-waning
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1907  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 2:41 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
The math making sense to you or any anyone but those involved is not pertinent.
Well, a lack of "financial viability" was a big part of the reason why Devcore lost in the first place so their math problems are certainly pertinent to the NCC (which I believe is involved).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1908  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 9:32 PM
J.OT13's Avatar
J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,617
DCDLS will never happen. No credibility. The money came from Desmarais and Laliberté, and there participation might have only been a ploy to buy an NHL team. If the rumours are true and they do buy the Sens, I cold see them abandon DCDLS (or would it become DCS) to jump ships to Rendez-Vous, which is a much more competent group that includes some big local developers (Mattamy, Brigil), one of the most respected green builders (Windmill), OSEG partner Trinity that has experience with this type of sports centered developments. Even outside partners like CCOC and Abilities Centre are fully committed to the project compared to DCDLS' outside partners that have merely signed intent letters.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1909  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2018, 9:36 PM
ac888yow's Avatar
ac888yow ac888yow is offline
Melissa: fabulous.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YOW/CYOW/CUUP
Posts: 1,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Well, a lack of "financial viability" was a big part of the reason why Devcore lost in the first place so their math problems are certainly pertinent to the NCC (which I believe is involved).
I accounted for the NCC when I said "anyone but those involved". See it now?

How about letting the boys with the money decide what's viable or not instead of continuing to pretend like you have some specific insight into any of this.

Just like a few pages back where you kept insisting that there's no new potential ownership waiting in the wings and yesterday's article taught you otherwise.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1910  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 1:44 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
I accounted for the NCC when I said "anyone but those involved". See it now?

How about letting the boys with the money decide what's viable or not instead of continuing to pre[/URL]tend like you have some specific insight into any of this.

Just like a few pages back where you kept insisting that there's no new potential ownership waiting in the wings and yesterday's article taught you otherwise.
Yes, Mr. Poulin has been reporting an interest in buying the Senators since 2016

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...yk-source-says

so last week's article is not exactly news. Telling the press something that helps to hype one's construction company and putting together money for a serious offer are two different things.

You're also mixing up different fanboy theories. Is Mr. Demarais trying to buy (or has secretly already bought) the Senators, which would make him the owner of SSE, the lead partner in the RVL group or is Mr. Demarais hoping RVL fails, hoping the NCC turns to Devcore (despite concerns about the proposal's viability), hope that Mr. Poulin can get the band back together, and hope that Mr. Melnyk decides he wants to sell to Mr. Poulin and others? Those two fanboy theories are mutually exclusive (i.e. buying the Senators would screw Mr. Poulin).

Meanwhile, Mr. Demarais just returned to work last week after being on medical leave for most of the last year. There is no evidence he is taking steps to set himself up to purchase the Senators, such as selling significant numbers of Power shares (which would have to be publicly disclosed). There is no evidence he is trying to build any ties to the Ottawa community (the Devcore presentation didn't event warrant a two hour limo ride). There is no evidence he was willing to put significant money into the Devcore bid (the NCC wouldn't have had as many concerns about viability if he had).

So we have the owner of a mid-sized construction company who put together a pretty flimsy bid two years ago, who likes to talk big and a bunch of fanboys on twitter grasping at a theory of the week.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1911  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 2:31 PM
daud daud is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Yes, Mr. Poulin has been reporting an interest in buying the Senators since 2016

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...yk-source-says

So we have the owner of a mid-sized construction company who put together a pretty flimsy bid two years ago, who likes to talk big and a bunch of fanboys on twitter grasping at a theory of the week.
2 sources for a sale to Desmarais or Laliberte are hardly "Fanboys on twitter";

Francois Gagnon from TSN/RDS
JC Lajoie from 91.9sport Montreal

In addition to numerous hockey insider blogs like danslescoulisses. Its always the same people involved and the name Alfredsson keeps coming up.

regardless of what stage a sale or no sale is at; I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Yes, fanboys on twitter have expressed a desire for the team to be sold-with due cause IMHO.

At the end of the day 2 things are clear;

1. We will get a hint on January 25 of where Lebreton is at
2. Melnyk is going to have to do something-his cashflow and the fans disgust for him are going to force movement of some type.

I personally believe Laliberte and/or Desmarais with Alfredsson in tow are trying to buy the team. maybe an offer has been made.

Another twitter fanboy states that a firm offer has been made which is conditional on the lebreton deal getting done. His source is "someone from inside". He even cites specific numbers.

You can believe it or not, what will be will be but it is real smoke people are seeing, not idle chit chat.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1912  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 3:01 PM
ac888yow's Avatar
ac888yow ac888yow is offline
Melissa: fabulous.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YOW/CYOW/CUUP
Posts: 1,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Yes, Mr. Poulin has been reporting an interest in buying the Senators since 2016

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...yk-source-says

so last week's article is not exactly news. Telling the press something that helps to hype one's construction company and putting together money for a serious offer are two different things.

You're also mixing up different fanboy theories. Is Mr. Demarais trying to buy (or has secretly already bought) the Senators, which would make him the owner of SSE, the lead partner in the RVL group or is Mr. Demarais hoping RVL fails, hoping the NCC turns to Devcore (despite concerns about the proposal's viability), hope that Mr. Poulin can get the band back together, and hope that Mr. Melnyk decides he wants to sell to Mr. Poulin and others? Those two fanboy theories are mutually exclusive (i.e. buying the Senators would screw Mr. Poulin).

Meanwhile, Mr. Demarais just returned to work last week after being on medical leave for most of the last year. There is no evidence he is taking steps to set himself up to purchase the Senators, such as selling significant numbers of Power shares (which would have to be publicly disclosed). There is no evidence he is trying to build any ties to the Ottawa community (the Devcore presentation didn't event warrant a two hour limo ride). There is no evidence he was willing to put significant money into the Devcore bid (the NCC wouldn't have had as many concerns about viability if he had).

So we have the owner of a mid-sized construction company who put together a pretty flimsy bid two years ago, who likes to talk big and a bunch of fanboys on twitter grasping at a theory of the week.
Right. So fanboy (of himself) acottawa on SSP wants us to believe that Mr. Poulin is talking a bunch of nonsense in the media and in doing so is implicating the names of a couple high power billionaires, among others. We're also to believe that said billionaires have no interest in any of this but are sitting idly by while this guy uses their names to plug his construction company. Said billionaires must think it's adorable. We're also to think that said billionaires need to sell off considerable assets to make such a deal happen (I guess acottawa knows somehow that they don't have the necessary liquidity) thus providing the necessary "evidence" to convince acottawa on SSP.

How's that for theory of the week? Methinks you like the sound/look of your prose a bit much.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1913  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 4:39 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
Right. So fanboy (of himself) acottawa on SSP wants us to believe that Mr. Poulin is talking a bunch of nonsense in the media and in doing so is implicating the names of a couple high power billionaires, among others. We're also to believe that said billionaires have no interest in any of this but are sitting idly by while this guy uses their names to plug his construction company. Said billionaires must think it's adorable. We're also to think that said billionaires need to sell off considerable assets to make such a deal happen (I guess acottawa knows somehow that they don't have the necessary liquidity) thus providing the necessary "evidence" to convince acottawa on SSP.

How's that for theory of the week? Methinks you like the sound/look of your prose a bit much.
75% of the family's assets are in public company stock. Unless Mr. Melnyk or the NCC want their payment in Power shares then he would need more liquidity.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/list...marais-family/

I can't imagine Mr. Demarais or Mr. Bettman are too thrilled with Mr. Poulin's bragging. The Godfather talk you so admire creates a lot of risk for them.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1914  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 5:12 PM
acottawa acottawa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by daud View Post
2 sources for a sale to Desmarais or Laliberte are hardly "Fanboys on twitter";

Francois Gagnon from TSN/RDS
JC Lajoie from 91.9sport Montreal

In addition to numerous hockey insider blogs like danslescoulisses. Its always the same people involved and the name Alfredsson keeps coming up.

regardless of what stage a sale or no sale is at; I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Yes, fanboys on twitter have expressed a desire for the team to be sold-with due cause IMHO.

At the end of the day 2 things are clear;

1. We will get a hint on January 25 of where Lebreton is at
2. Melnyk is going to have to do something-his cashflow and the fans disgust for him are going to force movement of some type.

I personally believe Laliberte and/or Desmarais with Alfredsson in tow are trying to buy the team. maybe an offer has been made.

Another twitter fanboy states that a firm offer has been made which is conditional on the lebreton deal getting done. His source is "someone from inside". He even cites specific numbers.

You can believe it or not, what will be will be but it is real smoke people are seeing, not idle chit chat.
But as I said, these theories are mutually exclusive. SSE has a agreements with its own consortium in RVL (not devcore) and the consortium is negotiating with the NCC. If somebody buys SSE they assume all of the agreements. Said potential buyer cannot at the same time be hoping the talks with the NCC collapses and risk the NCC does not turn to devcore. If a buyer is comfortable with the NCC and city terms and is willing to pay what Melnyk wants then he has no use for Mr Poulin and his big talk.

But if the NCC are offering terms where Melnyk can break even (Lebreton land + CTC land + increased revenue > arena cost + NCC cost + cleanup/landscaping/amenities) it is hard to see why he would be looking for a buyer (a partner maybe). If he is not being offered a break-even deal then a potential buyer would have to lose money on the Lebreton deal plus have to pay for the team. If the rumoured buyer were a Paul Allen type who has so much money they don't care about losing a few hundred million then the rumours would be more believable but this would be a significant portion of the net worth of any of the rumoured buyers.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1915  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 7:35 PM
ac888yow's Avatar
ac888yow ac888yow is offline
Melissa: fabulous.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YOW/CYOW/CUUP
Posts: 1,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
75% of the family's assets are in public company stock. Unless Mr. Melnyk or the NCC want their payment in Power shares then he would need more liquidity.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/list...marais-family/

I can't imagine Mr. Demarais or Mr. Bettman are too thrilled with Mr. Poulin's bragging. The Godfather talk you so admire creates a lot of risk for them.
What's 25% of 8.38 billion? What's the liquidity of that amount? How many players are involved in this group? What would be the ownership breakdown among those players?

Last edited by waterloowarrior; Jan 14, 2018 at 7:51 PM. Reason: personal attack
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1916  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2018, 8:05 PM
ac888yow's Avatar
ac888yow ac888yow is offline
Melissa: fabulous.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YOW/CYOW/CUUP
Posts: 1,788
Apparently saying someone needs a better imagination constitutes a personal attack. Noted.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1917  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2018, 9:29 PM
daud daud is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 350
Just to add even more speculation to all this...

There is a poster at HF boards who relayed an exchange they had with a senior executive at OSEG.

The conversation said that NCC has imposed some financial milestones for the Rendez-Vous project to continue. The NCC has made it clear that they do not believe Melnyk's finances are there and that there is the "groundwork" agreement for the team to be sold (in this version to OSEG). The first part is in agreement with other statements on this thread.

Someone then goes on to confirm this story and says that Melnyk is furious about getting muscled out of his team which contributed to those comments in Mid December.

I would not in one bit be surprised if Melnyk was sitting on 2 hard offers for the team. This is what Liam McGuire's blog stated that there actually 3 interested parties in buying the Ottawa Senators.

ACOttawa I do concur that it appears that any "milestone" at this juncture would have to involve Rendez-Vous. My impression from that article on Devcore was that Mr. Poulin was out of the loop. That does not necessarily imply that the money behind his bid (Desmarais and Laliberte) haven't done anything on the Senators front though.

If we were to believe Liam McGuires blog that 3 interested parties are looking to buy the sens you could venture a guess that these parties might be:
1. OSEG
2. Desmarais and/or Laliberte
3. A quebec city group-which stands very little chance but would explain Melnyks comment that the team "could look very very nice somewhere else"

The NHL's Bill Daly or Gary Bettman also are on record stating in December that they know of interested groups from "Quebec, Ontario and the Local area" but that Melnyk had not in the past shown interest in selling.

My popcorn machine will be set to overdrive on January 25 as I watch the NCC webcast.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1918  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2018, 9:36 PM
daud daud is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 350
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1919  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2018, 5:55 PM
eltodesukane eltodesukane is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 529
Welcome to the Neighborhood: America's Sports Stadiums Are Moving Downtown
The New York Times, By KEITH SCHNEIDERJAN. 19, 2018
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/b...velopment.html


"And Sacramento is not alone. Across the country, in more than a dozen cities, downtowns are being remade as developers abandon the suburbs to combine new sports arenas with mixed-used residential, retail and office space back in the city."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1920  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2018, 10:32 PM
Vixx Vixx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Wild Rose Country/Worst Case Ontario
Posts: 295
So the 25th is almost here, I hope that the info we get isn't a let down and we can actually get a clear picture of how things have been going.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Downtown & City of Ottawa
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:14 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.