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  #81  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2007, 12:07 AM
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^^^Yes.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2007, 6:18 AM
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That's a pretty big structure.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2007, 9:42 AM
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Why would anybody think adding a Target store to this area is the right thing to do?? Talk about taking the san francisco out of san francisco... What would happen to the prospect of neighborhood businesses in the area if a Target opened? Wherever there's a target, there is a loss of the type of places that make this city DIFFERENT. I do not want this area to be a palace of Ulta Hair Supplies, Burger King (which it currently is), PetCo, and all the other soulless, neighborhood destroying retail. Look at the neighborhood around CostCo in soma- barren, desolate, large chunks of concrete parking lots, a confusing traffic grid.

Places like Target have dehumanized America quicker and quicker for decades. Why would anybody shop at anything within a 10 block radius if they could get it for cheaper, and generically at Target?
The prospect of a Target store downtown is something I would fight, and I don't think I'm alone on this. Keep the big box retailers out of our neighborhoods.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2007, 3:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post
Why would anybody think adding a Target store to this area is the right thing to do?? Talk about taking the san francisco out of san francisco... What would happen to the prospect of neighborhood businesses in the area if a Target opened? Wherever there's a target, there is a loss of the type of places that make this city DIFFERENT. I do not want this area to be a palace of Ulta Hair Supplies, Burger King (which it currently is), PetCo, and all the other soulless, neighborhood destroying retail. Look at the neighborhood around CostCo in soma- barren, desolate, large chunks of concrete parking lots, a confusing traffic grid.

Places like Target have dehumanized America quicker and quicker for decades. Why would anybody shop at anything within a 10 block radius if they could get it for cheaper, and generically at Target?
The prospect of a Target store downtown is something I would fight, and I don't think I'm alone on this. Keep the big box retailers out of our neighborhoods.

I think this is a ridiculous statement. I doubt that Target would "Destroy" the neighborhood as is. Rather, it would serve as an anchor store, to help allow for more smaller retailers in the area. It would allow for this area to become a destination (similar to the new Westfield mall) and people can go to other places besides Target. Target does serve a very important niche which is not being served at the moment in the city. For example, I shop at Target anyway, just have to go to Serramonte to do so. While there, I might also stop at BevMo, Petco, etc. It doesn't mean that I also don't purchase from local stores as well.

The Costco analogy was a poor one as well. We all know that SOMA is improving for the better and before Costco was there, it was ALL barren and industrial. Nearby Costco, lofts have been constructed and there are other nice shopping areas which I also frequent (Trader Joes). You have to remember that this is one of the parts of SOMA that has not yet gone chic and still has a lot of work to do for redevelopment. The same can be said for the area where Target is and often times it takes a major retailer to be the "guinea pig" in the area to help spur future developments and improvements.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2007, 6:57 PM
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^^^I'm very much with you on this one roadwarrior. Bloomingdales is a "chain store". So are Saks and Nieman's. But you can't buy laundry soap and pet food there. If San Francisco is to be home to "real people" with real budgets, it needs shopping venues for daily necessities that keep prices in line with what the rest of America pays--that's places like Target (and Wal-Mart but the politics of that are just prohibitive). Mid-Market is almost the perfect place in San Francisco for such a store. It is well-served by transit from all over the city. Retail there will serve not only the rich, but all the low income people from the Tenderloin, 6th and 7th Streets and the surrounding neighborhoods. And they need precisely the kind of shopping Target would offer.

Market St. itself cannot all be high end retail from one end to the other. San Francisco long ago decided NOT to gentrify the Tenderloin and that decision means we will not see high end retailing in the adjacent blocks of Market. But we can see modern, efficient basic retailing in clean modern locations. New York has done it for decades. It's time for San Francisco to do it.

By the way, the description Tyler gives of the neighborhood around CostCo makes me think he's talking about a different city. It certainly has no relation to the CostCo in San Francisco. The neighborhood around that has only gotten better since CotCo moved in and the only parking lot--badly needed for the nighttime enetertainment in the area--is inside the CostCo store. But, again, urban sort-of-big boxes, don't need parking lots if they are well-served by transit as any store on Market St. would be.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2007, 8:01 PM
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I agree with the comments from BT and roadwarrior about Target. Sure, Target would pull in customers from all over the city and possibly hurt some of the mom-and-pops from far-flung places - but this area of Market (and the surrounding neighborhood) isn't exactly chock full of mom-and-pops that would be hurt by a Target. You can pretty much split the retail spaces in the area into these categories:

1. Boarded up storefronts
2. Restaurants - which would clearly benefit from more traffic in the area
3. Chain stores like Radio Shack - which seem to do just fine next to Targets in suburbia
4. Porn shops - I haven't really checked at Target, but I don't believe they typically have a giant porn section or viewing booths - could be wrong though

I just don't really see the downside - we're not talking about putting a Target on Fillmore or Clement or in North Beach or Polk or Chestnut or Irving or any one of the other mom-and-pop neighborhood retail streets.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2007, 9:08 PM
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Gordo,

Even if a Target were placed on one of the shopping streets you mentioned, I doubt it would take much away from business. You're talking about stores like Rabat, Marc Jacobs, Lucky Brand Jeans, etc. Most of these are high end stores and their business will not be canabilized by Target.

I'd say that places that could be affected would be more along the lines of Walgreens, but then again, there are tons of Walgreens all over the city and none seem to be canabalized by the fact that there is another location within 2 blocks.

As mentioned, this would mainly take away business from other store locations that are not currently in the city (Serramonte, Emeryville, Tanforan, etc).
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  #88  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2007, 12:18 AM
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Oh, I agree with you, roadwarrior. I was just responding to Tyler's post about the possible effect on mom-and-pops.

I think that there are definitely stores other than Walgreens and those types that would be affected on some of the streets, though. There are large chunks of many of those streets that are not all high-end clothing flanked by Walgreens. Some of the "household item" stores on Clement and Irving, as well as hardware stores and pharmacies on any of those streets would certainly feel the pinch - but again, there is no way in hell that Target will be opening in those areas any time soon. Mid-Market is a great place for a Target.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2007, 7:17 AM
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Ridiculous? Hardly.

If it happens I just hope they don't develop it a la Safeway on Market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
I think this is a ridiculous statement. I doubt that Target would "Destroy" the neighborhood as is. Rather, it would serve as an anchor store, to help allow for more smaller retailers in the area. It would allow for this area to become a destination (similar to the new Westfield mall) and people can go to other places besides Target. Target does serve a very important niche which is not being served at the moment in the city. For example, I shop at Target anyway, just have to go to Serramonte to do so. While there, I might also stop at BevMo, Petco, etc. It doesn't mean that I also don't purchase from local stores as well.

The Costco analogy was a poor one as well. We all know that SOMA is improving for the better and before Costco was there, it was ALL barren and industrial. Nearby Costco, lofts have been constructed and there are other nice shopping areas which I also frequent (Trader Joes). You have to remember that this is one of the parts of SOMA that has not yet gone chic and still has a lot of work to do for redevelopment. The same can be said for the area where Target is and often times it takes a major retailer to be the "guinea pig" in the area to help spur future developments and improvements.
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  #90  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2007, 6:36 AM
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I notice what appears to be a pile driver or drill on or near the Trinity Plaza site. Is the project finally moving aheard?
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  #91  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2007, 7:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry of San Fran View Post
I notice what appears to be a pile driver or drill on or near the Trinity Plaza site. Is the project finally moving aheard?
I hope so !!! "Mr. Newsom, tear down this wall!!!"



This project is as exciting for me as Infinity and Once Rincon, because this is a much more vital area.
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  #92  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2007, 11:46 PM
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Cruising down Market St on a bus today, I looked between the buildings and saw what appeared to be several pieces of heavy equipment in the Trinity Plaza lot on Mission St. Tomorrow, maybe I'll be able to get over there and find out what's going on.
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  #93  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2007, 12:49 AM
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Cruising down Market St on a bus today, I looked between the buildings and saw what appeared to be several pieces of heavy equipment in the Trinity Plaza lot on Mission St. Tomorrow, maybe I'll be able to get over there and find out what's going on.
I hope this means demolition/site prep will be underway soon. I'm leaving town soon so I wont be able to go see for myself .
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  #94  
Old Posted Aug 24, 2007, 11:39 PM
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OK, so somebody who knows construction tell us: What does this mean?







I took the pics and to me it looks like they are doing test pilings--trying to find how deep is the bedrock perhaps?
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  #95  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2007, 2:27 AM
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yeah, and getting soil composition. It's a good sign!
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  #96  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2007, 9:29 AM
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is this the building with the moonstar restaurant in it? I eat there whenever I go to SF!
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  #97  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2007, 4:26 PM
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^^^Yes. For 26 years I've wondered if that restaurant was any good. Is it?
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  #98  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2007, 5:48 PM
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As excited as I am about Transbay, I'm almost as excited about this one. Not so much for the design, which is fine by me, but for what I hope it does to this stretch of Market. There is a virtual line around 6th where Market's built environment transforms from slick to seedy. I have no problem with the Tenderloin, but I'd like to see Market, as SF's main street, built and occupied (meaning the businesses not the people) to a better level than this stretch currently meets.

As much as I dismiss developer's often overstated claims that suchandsuch building will be a catalyst for a neighborhood, I think this one can actually do that. It's good to see the first signs of this project getting started.
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  #99  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2007, 7:13 PM
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Del Webb's Towne House

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^^^Yes. For 26 years I've wondered if that restaurant was any good. Is it?
I don't know if anybody remembers it, but this entire property used to be Del Webb's Towne House, a fairly large hotel. It was always criticized as not fitting that site very well, especially with the disruption of the old street line and the parking lots. It also used to host many union meetings (such as my old Teamsters local) and seemed to have shady financial connections with unions and old Las Vegas, etc. When it closed and was reopened shortly thereafter as apartments, it was supposed to be temporary until the place was demolished. The apartments were terrible, simply rented with the cheap motel/hotel furniture still in place. I'll be very glad to finally see the whole thing obliterated and replaced with something dynamic and alive that greatly contributes to the neighborhood.http://cgi.ebay.com/Del-Webbs-Towne-...ayphotohosting
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  #100  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2007, 8:16 PM
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^^^Yes. For 26 years I've wondered if that restaurant was any good. Is it?
You should try, it's an all you can eat asian buffet. Sushi, Thai, Chinese, I like the place. Pay at the door, like 15 bucks or something. Might be more or less now since I haven't gone for a couple of months.
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