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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 6:21 AM
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Awful. Honestly I'd give a small child the contract to design a supertall over H-M. This is terrible.
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 10:10 AM
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For such a prominent building, the city should consider having HM work with another great architect to do a redesign of this tower. Although it looks like HM is trying their best to improve their style -- and they are, it still looks almost as if a grade school kid designed this with the Building Architect Tool for the Simcity 4 computer game. Remember the huge improvement over HM's original design for the Infinity? I think it might be good to have another architect help here as well. San Francisco's tallest buildings, should also be among its best buildings. This tower should be more compatible in quality and style with the Transbay Transit Tower, Piano towers, and Millenium nearby. Otherwise, I am glad to see this project developing.

Last edited by SFView; Sep 2, 2007 at 10:24 AM.
     
     
  #83  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 10:18 AM
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Awful. Honestly I'd give a small child the contract to design a supertall over H-M. This is terrible.
I don't know why you all rag on them so much, Manass has created some really great stuff in the city. I took a look at their portfolio and was quite impressed.
     
     
  #84  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 10:49 AM
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Heller Manus is extremely well connected politically in San Francisco, and have succeeded in designing many large projects in the city. Some of their best solo work has been various mid to low rise buildings. Their two best tall buildings, 555 Mission and the Infinity, were done with the help of other architects - Kohn Pedersen Fox for 555 Mission, and Arquitectonica for the Infinity.
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 4:45 PM
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^^^This project, surprisingly, is "only" 500,000 sq ft of office. Prop M allows about 900,000 sq ft per year (I can't recall the exact number). And remember what I posted last week--there's a move afoot to strip some "entitled" buildings that haven't started construction within the required 18 months of their "entitlements", making that "banked" square footage again available. If that happens, this building could easily be built within a few years I believe. Even if it doesn't happen, I doubt Prop. M would stop it--it wpould have to compete with some other projects but given the emphasis on the TransBay area, I think it would get an allocation.
I was also surprised about so little floor area for a 900 footer, but then again there is only so much space you can fit on such a small site. Great news for San Francisco in either case.
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 6:08 PM
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For such a prominent building, the city should consider having HM work with another great architect to do a redesign of this tower. Although it looks like HM is trying their best to improve their style -- and they are, it still looks almost as if a grade school kid designed this with the Building Architect Tool for the Simcity 4 computer game. Remember the huge improvement over HM's original design for the Infinity? I think it might be good to have another architect help here as well. San Francisco's tallest buildings, should also be among its best buildings. This tower should be more compatible in quality and style with the Transbay Transit Tower, Piano towers, and Millenium nearby. Otherwise, I am glad to see this project developing.
View, I really can't agree. I guess it's because I like this building as it is (not sure about the glass color because I'm not sure what it is). This strikes me as radically unlike most other H-M buildings which usually have an odd mix of glass areas and some other surface (the two you like--Infinity and 555 Mission--are the other two prominent exceptions). Also, I'd rather NOT see any coordination between the designs of the very tall buildings in the TransBay Area. I sure don't want it to look like some kind of overgrown planned community. I've said before that I like cities that grow organically, one building at a time based on one inspiration at a time. Let Piano do his thing, SOM (hopefully) do theirs and, (crossing all fingers and toes) H-M do theirs if they get the commission.
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 7:02 PM
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View, I really can't agree. I guess it's because I like this building as it is (not sure about the glass color because I'm not sure what it is). This strikes me as radically unlike most other H-M buildings which usually have an odd mix of glass areas and some other surface (the two you like--Infinity and 555 Mission--are the other two prominent exceptions). Also, I'd rather NOT see any coordination between the designs of the very tall buildings in the TransBay Area. I sure don't want it to look like some kind of overgrown planned community. I've said before that I like cities that grow organically, one building at a time based on one inspiration at a time. Let Piano do his thing, SOM (hopefully) do theirs and, (crossing all fingers and toes) H-M do theirs if they get the commission.
I love this building, it exudes power, and masculinity and femininity at the same time, which is rare in a building this tall. I don't think it needs to be tweaked too much, or at all, but the glass could either make or break this design. The Infinity Green and Intercontinental blue are great- for their respective personalities and locations, but I don't want more buildings like these early iMac colors because, unlike a computer, you have to live with a building for 100 or more years.

As far as planning at the ground level, I think that each building should be distinct in its own ways, but in a way that still brings its neighbors together and doesn't single or exclude any one place out. I don't think it should look like one big planned community, with all the bases of these towers looking exactly the same and therefore "planned," but instead a bunch of little communities, block by block, coming together.
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 7:13 PM
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^^^We could use another "emerald green" a la 560 Mission, though.


Photo source: http://hines.com/property/detail.aspx?id=220
     
     
  #89  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 8:17 PM
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^Love that tower.

I think the main thing that's bothering my about the design is the color/tint of the glass. Not a great design by any stretch, but is a decent start.
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  #90  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 8:25 PM
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^^^We could use another "emerald green" a la 560 Mission, though.


Photo source: http://hines.com/property/detail.aspx?id=220
One thing that surprises me about this building is that the building materials, at least at the ground level, are very cheap. Go up to one of the columns in front of the building and bang on it with your hand, you will hear a hollow echo sound and feel the hollowness and plastic feel/ sound of the columns. The column will actually even cave in a little if you bang hard enough. I thought that it would be some sort of metal or steel, but it appears to be thin, hollow plastic like material, which is very upsetting to me.
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 10:01 PM
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Okay. As long as there are some who think the design is good enough, I will settle for that. Like I said before, this is a good start for Heller Manus, and is one of their better designs. Perhaps before I judge the design any further, I would like to see more renderings from other angles.
     
     
  #92  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 10:16 PM
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I also think that seeing others come out in defense of Heller Manus for this project, is also a good sign.
     
     
  #93  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 10:24 PM
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One thing that surprises me about this building is that the building materials, at least at the ground level, are very cheap. Go up to one of the columns in front of the building and bang on it with your hand, you will hear a hollow echo sound and feel the hollowness and plastic feel/ sound of the columns. The column will actually even cave in a little if you bang hard enough. I thought that it would be some sort of metal or steel, but it appears to be thin, hollow plastic like material, which is very upsetting to me.
Hmm, I am not sure about the columns, but the material on the curtain wall that connects the window panes is a dark green metal, maybe aluminum (you might be able to check it out in the street level cafe, but I can't remember for sure).

I don't know so much about steel frame construction, but wouldn't the columns at street level be casing around the steel beams? Maybe for street level they chose a plastic to resist denting or scratching. I will have to feel it next time I'm there

It has been interesting watching 555 go up and just how fast it rises. I have been waiting to see how the covering gets put around the steel frame and when/how they install the curtain wall.
     
     
  #94  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2007, 10:36 PM
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Really? I think it reminds me more of the bay bridge, structually, than the Pyramid. I don't know where you crazies are getting the pyramid reference. If this building were in any other city, would you still be thinking "OMG, Transamerica!" ??
'who said "OMG, Transamerica? ..and 'crazies'? YOU sound like the nut. Get some therapy..Geez.
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2007, 1:26 AM
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Whoa! Looks awesome. Ugly and dated...but it works!
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2007, 2:27 AM
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Okay. As long as there are some who think the design is good enough, I will settle for that. Like I said before, this is a good start for Heller Manus, and is one of their better designs. Perhaps before I judge the design any further, I would like to see more renderings from other angles.
I agree. I'm pretty impressed with what I've seen so far, but I think its too premature to make any solid assumptions yet. After all, we've only seen one side of the building, the other side might make us love it or hate it (hopefully love it).
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  #97  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2007, 8:45 PM
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This will be sitting directly south of SOM's proposed park just outside the Transbay grand entrance, so it's a good thing it will be extra thin. Something wide would shadow that park a good portion of the day.

I don't yet have a definitive opinion about the design. I'd like to see more renders from different angles and get a better sense of the color. I like the height though.
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  #98  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2007, 11:20 PM
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The folks at Screampoint (http://www.screampoint.com/v2/index.htm) who also did those wonderful animations for SOM's Transbay Competition submissions, have done some very basic generic massing studies showing 181 Fremont at 900', Transbay at 1200', and Piano at up to 900'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cOJrdhaJoI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgw3b4j6f7M
     
     
  #99  
Old Posted Sep 5, 2007, 11:29 PM
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^^^Those make the TransBay tower look much blockier and "massier" than any of the submitted designs looks to me. Even I might not want a supertall "refrigerator" on our skyline.
     
     
  #100  
Old Posted Sep 6, 2007, 1:20 AM
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^^^Those make the TransBay tower look much blockier and "massier" than any of the submitted designs looks to me. Even I might not want a supertall "refrigerator" on our skyline.
I think BofA at 1200' would be pretty cool
     
     
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