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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by utenation View Post
Great post.. Right on the money. Good luck to BSU this year..
Thank you! Good luck to Utah this season, I've enjoyed watching the Utes over the past few years.
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by utenation View Post
You sure about that record Hoss? I'll give you a couple of clues. The MWC was formed in 1999 and TCU didn't join the MWC until 2005..


Get back to me on that record.. BTW, the combined record of the MWC teams BSU has beat is 44%... Nothing to brag about. You lost to our second place team last year as the WAC champ.


BTW, the P10 is all about being a research university conference.. BSU doesn't make the grade..
I would agree with this if it were still 1995...
but boise state actually has quite a bit of research going on at it's university.. and could hold its own with making the grade...
Boise state is blowing up with new academic programs and facilities for them... I think boise state's breast cancer research could hold a candle to wsu's soy bean agriculture research... I dunno..lol

As for the MWC... the only team that has beat bsu recently is TCU.. and surprisingly that is the only other team that holds a chance at a bcs bid from the mwc...It wasn't too long ago in 2006 when bsu handed utah its ass on a platter at their own home...
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
I would agree with this if it were still 1995...
but boise state actually has quite a bit of research going on at it's university.. and could hold its own with making the grade...
Boise state is blowing up with new academic programs and facilities for them... I think boise state's breast cancer research could hold a candle to wsu's soy bean agriculture research... I dunno..lol

As for the MWC... the only team that has beat bsu recently is TCU.. and surprisingly that is the only other team that holds a chance at a bcs bid from the mwc...It wasn't too long ago in 2006 when bsu handed utah its ass on a platter at their own home...

I think you better check a little closer on what the P10 considers a research level school for their conference.. BSU is not there.. Just the facts.

We can get as deep as you want to here.


As far as BSU's record against the MWC, it's impressive, but not what you claimed..

The 2006 Utah team wasn't very good, we were 4th in the conference that year and BSU was much better, no way to spin it.. It would be nice to see BSU play some MWC teams above .500 more often.. Hard to schedule perfectly though.


BSU is a fantastic team.. I just popped in to expose your horrible numbers and faulty P10 theory.
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 6:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Evo5Boise View Post
Yes, Boise State does have a winning record against the MWC. You can argue against whom and when, but that is fact.
I never said it wasn't...
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 7:20 PM
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Research universities take much more that even "from 1995" lead you to believe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
I would agree with this if it were still 1995...
but boise state actually has quite a bit of research going on at it's university.. and could hold its own with making the grade...
Boise state is blowing up with new academic programs and facilities for them... I think boise state's breast cancer research could hold a candle to wsu's soy bean agriculture research... I dunno..lol

As for the MWC... the only team that has beat bsu recently is TCU.. and surprisingly that is the only other team that holds a chance at a bcs bid from the mwc...It wasn't too long ago in 2006 when bsu handed utah its ass on a platter at their own home...
Research universities take time to evolve a real credibility. Utah has accolades and awards for many years well before the 90's...80's.

The investment made into Utah is pretty staggering and you will not go to any appraisal of research universities where Utah is not in the very upper part.

I agree that BSU has a fine football program and I have long championed you for the MWC. I am personally not the biggest MWC fan but it always has at least 4 teams that kick a**...rarely more. In truth, I would like to see BSU and Fresno State for sure.

Uhhhh... we have not been in 2006 for 3 years. Utah went through a growing
period that resulted in the Sugar Bowl beat down with Alabama.

Utah is in much the same situation as 2006. Many new faces including the QB.
I like your QB. Tough and talented. I am pretty much always impressed by you guys. Utah, as far as athletic programs go, has many serious teams in various sports.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 7:21 PM
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Oakland next, should be a good game. The way the Defense is playing I think the Broncos have a good shot at winning.
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 7:34 PM
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Originally Posted by East2Westback View Post
Research universities take time to evolve a real credibility. Utah has accolades and awards for many years well before the 90's...80's.

The investment made into Utah is pretty staggering and you will not go to any appraisal of research universities where Utah is not in the very upper part.

I agree that BSU has a fine football program and I have long championed you for the MWC. I am personally not the biggest MWC fan but it always has at least 4 teams that kick a**...rarely more. In truth, I would like to see BSU and Fresno State for sure.

Uhhhh... we have not been in 2006 for 3 years. Utah went through a growing
period that resulted in the Sugar Bowl beat down with Alabama.

Utah is in much the same situation as 2006. Many new faces including the QB.
I like your QB. Tough and talented. I am pretty much always impressed by you guys. Utah, as far as athletic programs go, has many serious teams in various sports.
I understand all this... idaho has issues with the university system..
where our population is a bit disconnected.. even worse when the university system was founded.
Boise was the capital and therefore the other two regions (north) (east) got the universities...
As boise grew a junior college what is now boise state was founded and has now grown into the largest institution in the state because the population base is here..
So while the resources of the state are long standing, the namesake of boise state is very new and lacks historical significance...Those resources are very much one of the same now... just a matter of which banner it's under. There's been talk of just having ONE idaho university in the same manner UC is structured... who knows what will eventually happen though
Granted, the law school in Moscow is bringing its resources to boise already, and there has been talk about a medical school as well being incorporated into BSU or ISU boise campus... it really is a mess though
There is a fight over which school and which city should have these resources....
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 7:52 PM
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
I understand all this... idaho has issues with the university system..
I don't have a problem with your opinion of wanting to go to the P10, but your information of where BSU is at currently as a research school is completely off in the standards and most definitely for the P10.

There are only a few non P10 western schools that fit the P10 academic profile, Utah is one.. Check plenty of info on what the P10 claims is their standard and you will clearly see this...

Bob Kustra has been begging to get into the MWC and a few years ago, BSU's academic profile was questionable for MWC standards. Now that they have shed the community college image, they might be closer to that standard but certainly not P10 worthy..

I just find it ironic that you would claim a conference your president wants to get into is over-hyped...

I respect Kustra but clearly you don't know what direction your program wants to go at this point...

I won't hold these things against you but when you try to portray your opinion as fact, it looks sloppy...
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by utenation View Post
I don't have a problem with your opinion of wanting to go to the P10, but your information of where BSU is at currently as a research school is completely off in the standards and most definitely for the P10.

There are only a few non P10 western schools that fit the P10 academic profile, Utah is one.. Check plenty of info on what the P10 claims is their standard and you will clearly see this...

Bob Kustra has been begging to get into the MWC and a few years ago, BSU's academic profile was questionable for MWC standards. Now that they have shed the community college image, they might be closer to that standard but certainly not P10 worthy..

I just find it ironic that you would claim a conference your president wants to get into is over-hyped...

I respect Kustra but clearly you don't know what direction your program wants to go at this point...

I won't hold these things against you but when you try to portray your opinion as fact, it looks sloppy...
I never once have said anything is fact... I've only expressed my opinion
sports wise boise state has a good program... comparable to anything in the pac-10 IN MY OPINION...
you are the one bringing the academics into it.. and that very well is the case, but bsu did not get into the MWC because of academics.. so please be careful what you're saying as well...
You're misunderstanding my origional post... its about getting into a schedule that's more challenging for our football team... MWC hasn't proven itself really that challenging to bsu... MWC would only benefit from having bsu.. everyone knows that...

As for the research levels.. East2West hit the nail on the head.. its about reputation and even more so money and funding... boise state is a relatively newer institution.... that is comparible in size to any other regional university..
I'm origionally from Washington state.. and I know that there isn't anything more ground breaking in research that's light years ahead of boise state happening at WSU ... it's all about the establishment.. nothing more...
Boise state is and has been recently pulling much of the academic resources of the state to it's campus.... and you will see the result in the next 5-10 years... The only draw back is boise state can't re-write its history.. because it was technically just a simple jr college 30 years ago...


What looks sloppy is you disappearing from the message boards only to return when something utah/boise/idaho related is brought up...

cheers...

Last edited by Boiseguy; Sep 21, 2009 at 8:55 PM.
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 9:02 PM
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http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/65818

"Because some feel Boise State's record is skewed, they feel the Broncos will not be as competitive in the MWC. But Boise State is 12-0 against MWC teams in football since the conference began in 1999."

12-1 now with the only loss being to TCU....

and that's from the folks at BYU...
so how is that not something to brag about utenation?
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
I never once have said anything is fact... I've only expressed my opinion
So is posting a set of numbers like record is opinion?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
you are the one bringing the academics into it.. and that very well is the case, but bsu did not get into the MWC because of academics.. so please be careful what you're saying as well...
Conference allegiance is more than just sport's programs. Conferences like the P10 put academic profile ahead of everything else..

The fact is, the MWC has been in no mood to expand after TCU but it's been brought up many times over the years and BSU's academic profile has been questioned by MWC leadership more than once when they were a tech school.. They are doing much better these days..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
You're misunderstanding my origional post... its about getting into a schedule that's more challenging for our football team... MWC hasn't proven itself really that challenging to bsu... MWC would only benefit from having bsu.. everyone knows that...
Just like teams like USU in the WAC aren't challenging for Utah.. When the teams you've beat have a 44% winning %, there is a good chance that's not challenging to BSU(a good team). What we do know is once BSU faced off with a quality MWC team, they lost.. In fact, BSU is 1-4 in their last 5 bowl games. As far as the MWC needing BSU, we were ranked ahead of two big conferences last year without BSU in the final BCS standings as a conference... We aren't begging to get BSU in the MWC, they are begging to get in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
As for the research levels.. East2West hit the nail on the head.. its about reputation and even more so money and funding... boise state is a relatively newer institution.... that is comparible in size to any other regional university..
I'm origionally from Washington state.. and I know that there isn't anything more ground breaking in research that's light years ahead of boise state happening at WSU ... it's all about the establishment.. nothing more...
As I've already said a few times, the P10 has outlined their research level requirements which includes funding, focus and establishment..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
What looks sloppy is you disappearing from the message boards only to return when something utah/boise/idaho related is brought up...
I'm mostly a lurker here and I tend to stick to regional topics, a few comments here and there on non region stuff but I saw a football thread and your poor work and couldn't resist..

I mostly post on sports' message boards and topics like this are child's play for me, especially against ignorant folks that try to pass their numbers or theories off as fact.

I'd be happy to take you to my playground and we could see who's information really holds water...
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 9:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/65818

"Because some feel Boise State's record is skewed, they feel the Broncos will not be as competitive in the MWC. But Boise State is 12-0 against MWC teams in football since the conference began in 1999."

12-1 now with the only loss being to TCU....

and that's from the folks at BYU...
so how is that not something to brag about utenation?
Not every article is right just because it's printed..

It's actually 10-1... TCU 2003 was in CUSA. BSU beat Utah in 1998 when they were in the WAC... The record is impressive but when you look deeper, they mostly beat bad MWC teams. Hardly a domination of the cream of our conference. BYU under Crowton was a pretty bad program and Utah 2006 was pretty average.. Perhaps their best win was over a 1999 Co-Champ Utah team that shared the title three ways...

I think TCU on a neutral field in 2008 is a great example of how both the top of both conferences compare in today's world, don't you think?
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by utenation View Post
Not every article is right just because it's printed..

It's actually 10-1... TCU 2003 was in CUSA. BSU beat Utah in 1998 when they were in the WAC... The record is impressive but when you look deeper, they mostly beat bad MWC teams. Hardly a domination of the cream of our conference. BYU under Crowton was a pretty bad program and Utah 2006 was pretty average.. Perhaps their best win was over a 1999 Co-Champ Utah team that shared the title three ways...

I think TCU on a neutral field in 2008 is a great example of how both the top of both conferences compare in today's world, don't you think?
lol... so now you're going to ride the heals of TCU to prove a point for your conference when you know as well as I do that if bsu was in the MWC they'd be in the top tier of your conference consistently....
it's still an impressive record against your conference.. you can't downplay that with YOUR opinion as you've accused me of doing.. you just can't...but it's interesting to watch you do it..

utah bad year this.. byu bad year that..
lol....
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
lol... so now you're going to ride the heals of TCU to prove a point for your conference when you know as well as I do that if bsu was in the MWC they'd be in the top tier of your conference consistently....
The fact remains, when they have played a MWC champ or something close in the modern era, they have lost.. Otherwise, they have beat up sub .500 teams or very average teams. This is a fact.

I don't recall claiming BSU wouldn't be in the top tier. I think they would, they are a good program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
it's still an impressive record against your conference.. you can't downplay that with YOUR opinion as you've accused me of doing.. you just can't...but it's interesting to watch you do it..
Yeah, I think beating teams with a 44% winning % is questionable and that's my opinion.. Where you went wrong was claiming a set of numbers is fact along with P10 academic requirements..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
utah bad year this.. byu bad year that..
lol....


If you're talking when BSU played these teams, you have to give BSU credit, they can't control who is good or not but it still doesn't change the facts...

Last edited by utenation; Sep 25, 2009 at 11:32 PM.
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 10:18 PM
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no just seems a bad year for a mwc team is justifiable.. when a bad year for bsu is not...
fact of the matter is.. the mountain west is seeking respect... and well you lose all your gains from the previous year when your last years conference champ loses out to oregon.. and your other conference heavyweight loses to an unranked team all in the same weekend...
Perhaps we should ask TCU their opinion on the matter?
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2009, 11:57 PM
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no just seems a bad year for a mwc team is justifiable.. when a bad year for bsu is not...
fact of the matter is.. the mountain west is seeking respect... and well you lose all your gains from the previous year when your last years conference champ loses out to oregon.. and your other conference heavyweight loses to an unranked team all in the same weekend...
Perhaps we should ask TCU their opinion on the matter?

Wow, it seems you have a real bone to pick with the MWC.. I like BSU as a program and wouldn't mind seeing them in the MWC...

And to BSU's credit, they are very consistent although, I think being in the WAC helps them "rebuild" easier than other conferences.

Utah has won two BCS Bowls in the last 5 years, they don't need to answer any questions, they caused BSU to stay home twice..

Most Ute fans knew this year would be a growing year.. Don't be too shocked if Utah still wins 9-10 games...

It's a good thing the CFB season is 12-13 weeks and not just one.. Maybe the conference is not doomed quite yet?

Have you seen the overall conference rankings from the sites in the BCS formula? Not looking too bad..

If you really want to know what TCU fans think, I can point you to the direction of many...

Like me, they might question some of your numbers though..
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2009, 1:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Boiseguy View Post
I never once have said anything is fact... I've only expressed my opinion
sports wise boise state has a good program... comparable to anything in the pac-10 IN MY OPINION...
you are the one bringing the academics into it.. and that very well is the case, but bsu did not get into the MWC because of academics.. so please be careful what you're saying as well...
You're misunderstanding my origional post... its about getting into a schedule that's more challenging for our football team... MWC hasn't proven itself really that challenging to bsu... MWC would only benefit from having bsu.. everyone knows that...

As for the research levels.. East2West hit the nail on the head.. its about reputation and even more so money and funding... boise state is a relatively newer institution.... that is comparible in size to any other regional university..
I'm origionally from Washington state.. and I know that there isn't anything more ground breaking in research that's light years ahead of boise state happening at WSU ... it's all about the establishment.. nothing more...
Boise state is and has been recently pulling much of the academic resources of the state to it's campus.... and you will see the result in the next 5-10 years... The only draw back is boise state can't re-write its history.. because it was technically just a simple jr college 30 years ago...


What looks sloppy is you disappearing from the message boards only to return when something utah/boise/idaho related is brought up...

cheers...
And BSU wouldn't benefit from playing ranked teams in Conference and OOC, a higher SOS, higher revenues from Bowls, TV Contracts, better competition in Basketball and other sports, etc? BSU wouldn't benefit from being in a much more respected conference, one that has a firmer financial situation, offers better competition, and recruits better despite the fact that ESPN doesn't carry MWC home games?

Boise State is rapidly transforming their academic and athletic programs before our very eyes in the crappy situation they stuck in with the WAC. Imagine what we could do with even more money and a fairly possible AQ bid if we were to join the MWC. The MWC is not over-hyped, and I'm fairly sure that the MWC would offer competition in all sports that is light years ahead of anything the WAC could muster.

Besides even though its all about "prestige" I'm pretty sure average GPA of incoming students, retention percentage, the amount of money granted to the school for research, and doctorate-level programs might have something to do with it, and right now we don't even stack up to the MWC, let alone the PAC-10. We are improving, and the further away we can get from the "BJC" legacy the more it will. The first two will improve themselves over time due to the spinning off of community college programs to CWI.

Now, enough about this, lets discuss some football.
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2009, 1:07 AM
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I think we all understand what it takes to move conferences. And Boise State has, and continues, to grow by leaps and bounds. Most forget that BSU was a 1-AA divisional small university, what, 15 years ago or so. So just the fact that they are being held in conversation such as this shows how far they have came. However, I would not go as far as to say that Boise State is begging to get into the MWC.

The WAC is a weak alignment. I think even BSU fans can admit that. It may not provide multiple ranked teams at any given time, but on the contrary, it has had teams in the ranked system for many years now. From Fresno to Hawaii to Boise State. And sure, we may have been soft in our bowl game records lately, but in my opinion we really won the one that mattered. And that game alone helped propel the Broncos into a household name, which, also carries over into recruiting.

And besides, WAC or not, it is never easy to dominate a division and go undefeated on a consistent basis. The term any given "sunday" still applies to the college ranks. To me, it just shows how much ahead of the curve we really are.
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2009, 6:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Evo5Boise View Post
However, I would not go as far as to say that Boise State is begging to get into the MWC.
Begging might be too strong.. Kustra has been very public about wanting to get into the MWC, he even sent letters to all MWC schools showing his strong interest to get in..

IMO, Kustra is the only leader in the WAC with a clue.. I think Bleymaier is a quality AD too.. Maybe needs some more focus on hoops is all..

I really like BSU as a program.. All kinds of things involved with AQ status but BSU couldn't hurt our chances.
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