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  #841  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2018, 4:49 PM
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North Hill Mall, in Calgary, is along the TCH, just a couple of train stops north of downtown. It has never been a major mall and had very little foot traffic, but when Sears announced its liqiuidation, foot traffic in this one spine retail area separating Sears and Safeway, foot traffic picked up. Now that Sears has closed, I’ve noticed that foot traffic has significantly slowed and there’s about a half dozen empty storefronts apart from the Sears one. I hope that the owners reinvent this mall. It seems popular with seniors and with Southen Alberta Institute of Technology (its adjacent to it) students.
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  #842  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2018, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
This raises an important question that I think I've kind of touched upon before: what is the role in government in all of this?

Is it simply to not get in the way of development and allow all of it to happen if boxes X, Y and Z are checked off on some form they have? Even if it means cannibalizing other areas (that can sometimes be aesthetically desirable or significant)?

Or do they have a role in determining what type of city we end up with, what it will look like, etc.?

Because what we are still seeing in lots of (most?) places is basically little regard to the latter point.

Land gets rezoned at the request of developer A, who then builds newer and cheaper spaces that is offered to retailer B who vacates his space (that he's been renting for years from developer C) just up the road.

I realize this is capitalism and free enterprise at work but lots of capitalist free market countries don't nec essarily let their cities develop in this cannabalistic way, and as a result don't have pock-marked decayed, gap-toothed commercial strips like we do.

A few weeks ago I was in an Ottawa suburb and looking for a Beer Store to return some bought-in-Quebec wine bottles for the Ontario refund. Yeah, I know that's cheating.

Anyway, I went to where I thought the Beer Store was (it had been there for years) and found out it had moved about 800 m to a brand new strip mall that had been built over the past few months in the middle of what was once I imagine to be a cornfield.

The other strip mall space, now left vacant (and one of an increasing number of vacancies in that strip mall that's barely 20 years old) wasn't any less spacious or easy to access for customers. In fact, the new location is further away for most people and doesn't have that many people living near it. Yet.
I don't understand why there isn't a broader debate on these approaches to development. Seems a lot like robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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  #843  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2018, 6:20 PM
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I appreciate your concern about the government's role in all of this but frankly it's not the governments business to be picking winners and losers. If expanding businesses don't want to go into these dead malls or near empty strip plazas there is a valid reason for that.

Businesses do not just set up shop in a place for the purpose of just cheap land. There is a LOT of planning that goes into these new developments and much of it has to do with demographics. Just as these malls/plazas looked good 30 years ago in terms of being near their shpping base so do these today. Those shoppers that patronized these mallls/plazas in the 1980s have moved away leaving older populations with less disposable income and very importantly a market that is far less concerned with getting every new gadget or buying the newest fashions or fads. This is also partly why the only stores that still hang on in these abandoned malls are the grocery and drug stores.........even if you are old you still need groceries and as you age you are more likely to visit a pharmacy then when you were younger. Does the government have the right to turn to businesses and tell them that have to expand in an a mall that's dying effectively telling these new businesses that business here failed but we expect you to fill that vacancy so you can fail too?

These new big box stores are not creating new centres as much as they are following their customer base. Is it the governments job {or even right} to tell them they can't do that? The city can certainly restrict where a business can set up shop and help densify the area but if an area is zoned for commercial they have every right to take advantage of it. What the city could do is help rezone the dying mall/plaza areas into higher density modes essentially bringing those shopper back to the area but then the city is it's own worse enemy in this. As soon as the area is designated as residential and property prices in the area start to rise then they increase the property tax rate so the cost of the leases in the mall soar to help pay for it.

Last edited by ssiguy; Feb 9, 2018 at 6:34 PM.
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  #844  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2018, 8:36 PM
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Any idea if Simons is taking over the vacated Sears space at Scarborough Town Center?
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  #845  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2018, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I appreciate your concern about the government's role in all of this but frankly it's not the governments business to be picking winners and losers. If expanding businesses don't want to go into these dead malls or near empty strip plazas there is a valid reason for that.

Businesses do not just set up shop in a place for the purpose of just cheap land. There is a LOT of planning that goes into these new developments and much of it has to do with demographics. Just as these malls/plazas looked good 30 years ago in terms of being near their shpping base so do these today. Those shoppers that patronized these mallls/plazas in the 1980s have moved away leaving older populations with less disposable income and very importantly a market that is far less concerned with getting every new gadget or buying the newest fashions or fads. This is also partly why the only stores that still hang on in these abandoned malls are the grocery and drug stores.........even if you are old you still need groceries and as you age you are more likely to visit a pharmacy then when you were younger. Does the government have the right to turn to businesses and tell them that have to expand in an a mall that's dying effectively telling these new businesses that business here failed but we expect you to fill that vacancy so you can fail too?

These new big box stores are not creating new centres as much as they are following their customer base. Is it the governments job {or even right} to tell them they can't do that? The city can certainly restrict where a business can set up shop and help densify the area but if an area is zoned for commercial they have every right to take advantage of it. What the city could do is help rezone the dying mall/plaza areas into higher density modes essentially bringing those shopper back to the area but then the city is it's own worse enemy in this. As soon as the area is designated as residential and property prices in the area start to rise then they increase the property tax rate so the cost of the leases in the mall soar to help pay for it.
To me it's the zoning and official plan that are the root problem. Specific to the case in London, I don't see any compelling reason why such a vast swath of land needed to be zoned commercial well south of where people actually lived. London already had a glut of commercial property and someone thought it would be great to add a huge amount of new commercial land that wasn't needed.

Once it's in the official plan and the zoning is in place, there's no stopping it.
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  #846  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2018, 7:27 PM
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  #847  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2018, 8:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YYCguys View Post
North Hill Mall, in Calgary, is along the TCH, just a couple of train stops north of downtown. It has never been a major mall and had very little foot traffic, but when Sears announced its liqiuidation, foot traffic in this one spine retail area separating Sears and Safeway, foot traffic picked up. Now that Sears has closed, I’ve noticed that foot traffic has significantly slowed and there’s about a half dozen empty storefronts apart from the Sears one. I hope that the owners reinvent this mall. It seems popular with seniors and with Southen Alberta Institute of Technology (its adjacent to it) students.
Now without Sears the only anchor is Safeway and maybe the Gym. The foodcourt probably still does well. I used to go there for lunch in my ACAD days.
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  #848  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2018, 10:39 PM
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I present to you... the Drumheller mall!

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Last edited by O-tacular; Mar 5, 2018 at 11:06 PM.
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  #849  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2018, 10:42 PM
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I like it. It's just so dated and cheap.
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  #850  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2018, 10:56 PM
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I like it. It's just so dated and cheap.
I don't think it's been touched since the 70's. Like so many other small town places of business it is a victim of a nearby Walmart. I think the Co-op is the only thing left open in it.
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  #851  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2018, 11:03 PM
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Remarkable similarity to Stettler's mall before the renovation a decade ago.
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  #852  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2018, 7:04 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
I don't think it's been touched since the 70's. Like so many other small town places of business it is a victim of a nearby Walmart. I think the Co-op is the only thing left open in it.
That looks more 80s than 70s.

The Greentree Mall Merchants Facebook page is quite fascinating. I shall have to stop in and say hi to Penny next time I am through Drumheller.
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  #853  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2018, 3:41 PM
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Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
That looks more 80s than 70s.

The Greentree Mall Merchants Facebook page is quite fascinating. I shall have to stop in and say hi to Penny next time I am through Drumheller.
How enticing! That actually works to have a Witch as their mascot since the Greentree mall is basically beside the cemetery.
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  #854  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 5:18 PM
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The long-demolished Rexdale Plaza.
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