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  #81  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:20 PM
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No. Market potential is huge in the valuations.
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  #82  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:22 PM
Hackslack Hackslack is offline
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^ Very interesting. Why couldn't the publicly owned teams be put up for sale, if an interested buyer approached them with an above market price? I'd think the other privately owned teams would support that.

Though, when times were slow, I'm sure it was the publicly owned teams that really supported the entire league.
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  #83  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:24 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
No. Market potential is huge in the valuations.
To a point. No question that Toronto has a huge unrealized upside. But let's get real here, the Argos likely bring in peanuts relative to some other CFL teams. If that was worth $50 million two years ago then there's no way the higher earning, profitable teams aren't substantially higher.
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  #84  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:30 PM
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No. Let's really get real. Earnings are what $3 million a year for the Roughriders in a tapped out market. You think that makes them worth tens of millions more than the Argos?
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  #85  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:38 PM
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^ That number is guaranteed to jump significantly with their new stadium. So yeah, for now the Riders likely have a much higher value. Granted if the Argos get traction in their market under MLSE's watch they could blow away the other teams, which was no doubt part of their appeal to Rogers in the first place.
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  #86  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
Why couldn't the publicly owned teams be put up for sale, if an interested buyer approached them with an above market price?
Tradition.
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  #87  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 3:46 PM
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Tradition.
And stability too, I'd argue. Calgary, Ottawa and I think maybe even BC ceased being community owned teams back in the 80s. In some ways it hindered the franchises a bit and cost them some stability.

Being a community owned team means that you get a lot of support from across the community... it generates a lot of goodwill. Fans also have the confidence of knowing that the team won't be held for ransom by an owner.
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  #88  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 8:21 PM
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Market potential is likely the reason the Rangers are worth more than the Leafs, but I think the Riders would have to be worth somewhere close to 100 million if they were sold. Toronto has a huge market value but the Argos were a damaged brand which definitely hurt their overall value.

Has there ever been a study to show how much CFL teams are worth? Isn't Braley triyng to sell the Lions for twenty million or something?
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  #89  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 8:30 PM
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To be honest, let us not forget that Brayley was pulling numbers out of the sky when he got rid of the Argos. His valuation was more about covering all of his bleeding from when he owned the team and nothing about the actual value of the team (If I recall he has burned about $20 million in his CF rescue operations). Barley included perspective Grey Cups (which he at first wanted a cut of) and other magic until ultimately finding a number Bell could stomach.

If I recall, the number floated around way back was $5 million. If you break down what a standard CFL team more or less brings in and has to push out that valuation makes sense, just doing day to day in the league, you will get about $3.5 million from TV money which for many teams covers salaries and much of the football operations. Argos likely had $5 million of activity going on in total and came out at loss each year. $50 million is a big stretch for a team that has no assets and only makes a profit every year it hosts a Grey Cup.

Just because Bell paid $50 million, does not mean that is what the Argos are worth. What new value is in place now? If and when MLSE builds the Argos a new practice facility, maybe a new office headquarters, etc then the value will jump up quite a bit but until then it is just TV money, a bunch of helmets and jock straps and the promise you will make lots of money with a Grey Cup every few years.

This isn't exclusive to the CFL as most sports valuations don't make any sense. The type of stuff going on in the NBA, for example, is nuts with the Clippers being sold for $2 Billion. Nobody with a straight face can say a team that does not even have its own building is worth $2 billion but Steve Balmer was willing to pay any price to get a team, just as Bell was in the corner and Brayley was able to shake them down. If Bell didn't step in the Argos may have folded on the spot.
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  #90  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Interesting little factoid in this Globe ROB article about the MLSE Argonauts acquisition...



https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle37337507/

So with the Argos worth $50 million and a bit (given that a couple years have passed since that value was established), it's probably not much of an exaggeration to say that some of the higher-revenue teams are probably into the nine figures when it comes to value. Of course it's moot because the Roughriders, Bombers and Eskimos are community-owned teams that will never be for sale, but it certainly puts the lie to the idea that CFL teams are near-worthless entities that people could buy for peanuts.

It kind of makes you wonder what the expansion fees will be like for the 10th team.
What was it for Ottawa?
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  #91  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 10:30 PM
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A team is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for them. How they justify it, or what they have going that makes it make sense for them, most outsiders will never know.

For the record, I believe the TV deal is 40 million split 10 ways (9 teams + the league) so 4 million each. Salary cap is min 4.55 and max 5.15 million- So teams do have work to do to pay for everything else.
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  #92  
Old Posted Dec 15, 2017, 11:39 PM
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What's the fee for an expansion team? IE, what would Halifax be paying?

CFLDB has this write-up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CFLDB
Like anything, the value of a CFL franchise is subjective and varies from day-to-day based on what anyone interested in purchasing is willing to pay. That said, based on known information in 2013 and standard business valuation formulas CFL franchises have a value of approximately $4 million for liquidation purposes and $8 - $12 million for on-going operation purposes. These values fluctuate with the fortunes of an individual team, the league and overall economy.

The expansion fee for the last expansion franchise awarded in 2008, the Ottawa RedBlacks who took to the field in 2014, was $7 million. The expansion fee for the Ottawa Renegades franchise awarded in 2001 was reportedly approximately $4.5 to $5 million. It is speculated/estimated the expansion fee for the next franchise will be in the $9 to $10 million range.
https://cfldb.ca/faq/league/

If an expansion franchise is worth $10M then i'm guessing a general franchise would be valued anywhere from $35M-$75M. As Whipper has mentioned, if Saskatchewan has reached peak exposure and growth in that market then their market valuation would have lower assumed potential than that of a Toronto or Vancouver. $50M in Toronto is $40M or $30M elsewhere based solely on market size alone.
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  #93  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 2:57 AM
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The Ottawa Rough Riders were never really community owned. There was a limited partnership in the late 80s but they did not have the financial wherewithal to run the franchise properly. Before that David Loeb owned them and back in the 60s, it was Sam Berger.
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  #94  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 1:09 PM
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The CFL needs to hire a good graphic design firm. In pains me to say this but NFL logos, jerseys, and merchandise is much nicer. It's not even close. For a league that struggles with perception and looking for revenue streams they sure don't do themselves any favours.

The Alouettes logo and jerseys are way too busy. The Argos logo is UGLY. The merchandise is un-purchasable, tacky, low brow garbage. I've been looking for 15 years for something I could buy and only found 1 thing I was willing to wear. I'm seriously contemplating designing something then having it made.
Calgary's uniforms are by far the worst, followed closely by Montreal. Both are far too busy.
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  #95  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
The Ottawa Rough Riders were never really community owned. There was a limited partnership in the late 80s but they did not have the financial wherewithal to run the franchise properly. Before that David Loeb owned them and back in the 60s, it was Sam Berger.
Thanks for clarifying. I recall some sort of "Rough Rider Rooters" group being involved in the 80s, but it sounds like it was a private ownership group with many players involved as opposed to community ownership as such.
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  #96  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 6:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
Calgary's uniforms are by far the worst, followed closely by Montreal. Both are far too busy.
I don't know about worst but they both could do better. That said, the Christmas tree game looks good on tv.
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  #97  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 6:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny24 View Post
A team is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for them. How they justify it, or what they have going that makes it make sense for them, most outsiders will never know.

For the record, I believe the TV deal is 40 million split 10 ways (9 teams + the league) so 4 million each. Salary cap is min 4.55 and max 5.15 million- So teams do have work to do to pay for everything else.
Do you know how much the league brings in from online sources, revenue from the USA, and revenue outside Canada/US? If you have data on revenue growth in those streams that would be fantastic.
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World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
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  #98  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 10:15 PM
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I have a very hard time believing the argos are worth $50 million when Braley wants $20 million for the Lions and the people to buy the Lions are offering $15 million.


For a guideline check below the Blue Bombers 2016 financial report from pages 12-15

The Bombers brought in $27 million in revenue in 2016.

http://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net...-Lower-Res.pdf
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  #99  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 2:55 AM
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^ The NY Rangers are worth $1.5 billion according to Forbes, and bring in $250 million in revenue. So by that admittedly simplistic but not entirely inaccurate metric, with $25 million in revenue it's not farfetched to say the Bombers are worth over $100 million.
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  #100  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2017, 8:56 PM
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BC Lions

While it is not a huge story, I think the fact the Lions hired a new President, and one with experience with one of the premier clubs in the league, shows that Braley is not sitting on his hands doing nothing this year.

https://www.tsn.ca/lions-continue-fr...ident-1.947344

The B.C. Lions named Rich LeLacheur as the CFL's club new president on Monday.

LeLacheur was the president and CEO of the Edmonton Eskimos from 2002 to 2011. He will start his new job in January.


The role has been vacant since Dennis Skulsky stepped aside as Lions president and CEO in April 2016.

"I am extremely pleased that Rick has accepted this critically important role with the Lions," team owner David Braley said in a statement. "I have a great deal of respect for what he has accomplished both in private business as well as during his time in the CFL. I know he will be a tremendous asset to our organization and help guide it to new heights."

LeLacheur, who is currently chairman of the board of Horse Racing Alberta, joins the Lions as the 30th president in franchise history at a critical time. Attendance has dipped dramatically in recent years, and Braley has been looking to sell the club.

"I am honoured and excited to be part of this historic and respected organization," LeLacheur said in the statement. "The B.C. Lions have been an integral part of the Canadian sports landscape for more than six decades, and there are tremendous opportunities for it to experience unprecedented growth.

"I know the passion David has for this team and this community, and I'm grateful for the confidence and trust he has placed in me. I can't wait to get started."

An Edmonton native, LeLacheur's addition is just the latest connection to the Eskimos for the Lions. B.C. hired former Eskimos player and executive Ed Hervey as its GM last month, while former assistant coach Jarious Jackson was named the club's new offensive co-ordinator last week.
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