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  #181  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
The relative dominance of Montreal (almost 50% of the population of Quebec) probably accounts for this. ..
And radiating outwards from Montreal, you reach extremely high percentages of Canada's francophone population within a range of a 2-3 hour drive of Montreal. Quebec City is over 2 hours - about 2 and a half. It's the second largest francophone population in the country. So if you say 2.5 hours from Montreal, you encompass Sherbrooke, Trois-Rivières, Gatineau plus eastern Ontario and Ottawa, in addition to all of the most populated rural areas of Quebec.

So it's fair to say 80-90% of Canada's francophone population is within a two and a half hour drive of Montreal.

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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
The competition from the Anglosphere is simply much larger, especially from the largest English-speaking country in the world next door. Montreal's competition is France, but that is mitigated by distance..
Montreal is obviously also rivalled by the NYC-LA behemoth as well, though the relevancy and "fit" isn't as nearly as lock-stock-and-barrel for us as it is for you guys.


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I'd imagine somewhere like Copenhagen or Stockholm exhibits a similar effect on their populations.
Yes, the feel is definitely similar.
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  #182  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 8:23 PM
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Winnipeg is sometimes described as more "eastern" than "western" based on its earlier development and larger prewar city. But do the "old" parts of Winnipeg more closely resemble Ontario cities or the "old" parts of Vancouver?

Vancouver and Winnipeg had similar growth patterns in the early 20th century and were similar in size, but Van grew more rapidly in the postwar period so it feels "newer" overall.

Is there a Western urban typology in Canada?
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  #183  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 10:15 PM
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Well Vancouver has its own tower style. Something few if any other cities in Canada can claim so there's that.
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  #184  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 10:31 PM
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Regarding comparing "new", fast-growing cities in Canada to the fast growing American "Sunbelt", are there American cities with the Mississauga-style "high rise towers mixed with low density" style suburbs?

I know LA has been compared to Toronto in this way, but I haven't got that much experience in Sunbelt suburbs to tell.

Some Americans seem to think that the ubiquitous "high-density from towers in suburbia" in places like metro Vancouver and Toronto stands out as Canadian in style, as it's something that isn't as common in their country.

http://noelmaurer.typepad.com/aab/20...different.html
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  #185  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Winnipeg is sometimes described as more "eastern" than "western" based on its earlier development and larger prewar city. But do the "old" parts of Winnipeg more closely resemble Ontario cities or the "old" parts of Vancouver?
Who says that? Winnipeg looks like other prairie cities. It doesn't look like cities in southern Ontario or Quebec at all, either in terms of the residential or commercial urban forms.

Random street in Winnipeg:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.88834...7i13312!8i6656

Random street in Regina:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@50.46358...7i13312!8i6656

Random street in Edmonton:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@53.56648...7i13312!8i6656

Random street in Toronto:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.66388...7i13312!8i6656
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  #186  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2018, 11:55 PM
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^ This house is just down the street in that Toronto link: haha

https://goo.gl/maps/sBWEx5xYhBw
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  #187  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The Montreal-Toronto pairing is often brought up on SSP Canada but I don't really feel it that much on a broad level.
These days the counter balance to Toronto is Vancouver despite Montreal being larger. Perhaps it isn't felt in Montreal but I definitely feel it in Toronto. Within Canada our gaze is to Vancouver, and vice versa.
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  #188  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Regarding comparing "new", fast-growing cities in Canada to the fast growing American "Sunbelt", are there American cities with the Mississauga-style "high rise towers mixed with low density" style suburbs?

I know LA has been compared to Toronto in this way, but I haven't got that much experience in Sunbelt suburbs to tell.

Some Americans seem to think that the ubiquitous "high-density from towers in suburbia" in places like metro Vancouver and Toronto stands out as Canadian in style, as it's something that isn't as common in their country.

http://noelmaurer.typepad.com/aab/20...different.html
A couple highlights from that article:

Vancouver's towers per capita was called "foreign" because it was so high
The Alberta cities were considered above average for the amount of towers they have considering their population.
The article was about Toronto written by an American staying in its suburbs who who points out that Canada's cities are different from American ones by the number of suburban towers.
He says that Torontos downtown could be anywhere in Eastern America's big cities.
He says Montreal could be anywhere in the eastern US which I'm not sure I agree with.
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  #189  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
He says Montreal could be anywhere in the eastern US which I'm not sure I agree with.
I would.

Boston and Philadelphia remind me of Montreal but the closest parallel to Montreal is Brooklyn.
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  #190  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I would.

Boston and Philadelphia remind me of Montreal but the closest parallel to Montreal is Brooklyn.
that's what a lot of tourists say about Montréal.
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  #191  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
These days the counter balance to Toronto is Vancouver despite Montreal being larger. Perhaps it isn't felt in Montreal but I definitely feel it in Toronto. Within Canada our gaze is to Vancouver, and vice versa.
I still feel that there's much more of a Montreal-Toronto connection than a Toronto-Vancouver connection.

Many Toronto offices are consumer-facing head offices for national and multinational brands, and so you have - at the very least - a French-speaking Montreal-based rep who comes in very often. You don't have a Vancouver-based rep, unless your company is very large and has regional offices, in which case the Vancouver office is actually a fairly small back office.

The other thing is that Montreal is not only the second largest metropolitan economy in the country, but very likely the second most diverse, with major Canadian head offices spread across a variety of industries (pharma, aerospace, consumer goods, financial services, etc.). Some of these companies have major operations in Toronto, especially if they're in finance.

On the contrary, Vancouver isn't really a city of head offices or of much economic diversity (when I lived there I worked for a university and wondered what the economy revolved around other than working for the public sector, speculating in real estate, film production and a sprinkling of tech). I certainly don't feel like it has much economic pull in Toronto.
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  #192  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
that's what a lot of tourists say about Montréal.
Ah interesting. And here i thought i was defending Montreal haha!
I was referring to Old Montreal where noone else has buildings of that vintage and therefore style.
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  #193  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 1:27 AM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
I still feel that there's much more of a Montreal-Toronto connection than a Toronto-Vancouver connection.

Many Toronto offices are consumer-facing head offices for national and multinational brands, and so you have - at the very least - a French-speaking Montreal-based rep who comes in very often. You don't have a Vancouver-based rep, unless your company is very large and has regional offices, in which case the Vancouver office is actually a fairly small back office.

The other thing is that Montreal is not only the second largest metropolitan economy in the country, but very likely the second most diverse, with major Canadian head offices spread across a variety of industries (pharma, aerospace, consumer goods, financial services, etc.). Some of these companies have major operations in Toronto, especially if they're in finance.

On the contrary, Vancouver isn't really a city of head offices or of much economic diversity (when I lived there I worked for a university and wondered what the economy revolved around other than working for the public sector, speculating in real estate, film production and a sprinkling of tech). I certainly don't feel like it has much economic pull in Toronto.
I think also probably still many more people travel (be it for work, tourism, family visits, etc.) between Montreal and Toronto than Toronto and Vancouver.
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  #194  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 1:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
Ah interesting. And here i thought i was defending Montreal haha!
I was referring to Old Montreal where noone else has buildings of that vintage and therefore style.
Montreal was obviously born in the same water as Boston, Philadelphia and even NYC. This is most apparent in older industrial areas.

But beyond that the general architectural vernacular of Montreal is fairly unique and not really found anywhere else. Even in Quebec itself you only see it sporadically in small pockets in Quebec City and Trois-Rivières.
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  #195  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 2:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Denscity View Post
Ah interesting. And here i thought i was defending Montreal haha!
I was referring to Old Montreal where noone else has buildings of that vintage and therefore style.
I agree, even though Old Montreal is relatively small , 0.71 km². It's not even a neighbourhood per se, it's part of Ville-Marie.

2011 , pop. 4,531 , +21.8% (2006-2011) , 6,381.7/km²

people live and work in Old Montréal so it's not a tourist trap.
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  #196  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 4:30 AM
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Who says that? Winnipeg looks like other prairie cities. It doesn't look like cities in southern Ontario or Quebec at all, either in terms of the residential or commercial urban forms.
Haven't we had debates on SSP on whether Winnipeg is "really" Western?
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  #197  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Haven't we had debates on SSP on whether Winnipeg is "really" Western?
Yes.

The conclusion tends to be that Winnipeg is a Prairie city - ipso facto it is Western.
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  #198  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
I think also probably still many more people travel (be it for work, tourism, family visits, etc.) between Montreal and Toronto than Toronto and Vancouver.
That's distance though. The same reason why somebody from Boston will likely have a visit to Philadelphia as opposed to Los Angeles.
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  #199  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 4:25 PM
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That's distance though. The same reason why somebody from Boston will likely have a visit to Philadelphia as opposed to Los Angeles.
I can understand the points that are being made on this.

It's true that it's Toronto-Montreal for certain things, and Toronto-Vancouver for others.

Given the size difference between Montreal and Vancouver, and Montreal's proximity to Toronto, you wouldn't normally expect Toronto's focus to be "shared" in this way.
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  #200  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2018, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
These days the counter balance to Toronto is Vancouver despite Montreal being larger. Perhaps it isn't felt in Montreal but I definitely feel it in Toronto. Within Canada our gaze is to Vancouver, and vice versa.
Not to pile on, but I'm genuinely curious why you would say this, as it is so entirely divorced from my own anecdotal experience. As best as I can tell, around here Vancouver is an abstraction only marginally more on the radar (due to size and natural attributes) than any other western city.

Am I really so out of touch? Or is it the kids who are wrong?

Maybe it colours my own perception because I find the metaphor too amusing, and I'm probably a broken record on this, but southern Ontario really is an island unto itself in many ways. There's a clear divide between us and the west, the north, Quebec and the midwestern states of the US. Nobody goes camping in Michigan or Quebec. You never hear "I think I'll fly to Vancouver for a week for my vacation." You might for Montreal, but it seems to me that the Montreal-Toronto interaction is a business thing, or a highly specific hipster urban thing (one that I fully enjoy myself, though I ain't no H-word). Common vacation or time-off destinations are Florida, Las Vegas and New York. Heat in winter, gambling and Broadway shows are top of mind.

That said, the anglo-Canadian cultural block probably supersedes my fanciful southern Ontario island construct. I feel a gulf when in Michigan, New York or francophone Quebec, but not when I'm interacting with people from Vancouver, Winnipeg or anglophone Montreal. And that's rather fascinating.
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