DENVER | Transportation Thread

[Cirrus]

The entire point of what I am telling you is that it doesn't matter how empty the bus is, because using smaller buses does not save you money.

Whatever money it saves you in terms of fuel, it costs you in terms of added maintenance, because the more diverse your vehicle fleet gets, the more it costs to maintain it. If you're La Junta Transit and you don't need 40' buses at all, then by all means only buy jitneys. But if you're RTD and you need a lot of 40' buses regardless, the marginal cost savings of buying jitneys for low-ridership routes is often not worth the additional mechanic training, part stores, and subcontracting that adding another vehicle model would require.

It's not like you are the first person to think of this, and it's simply a matter of convincing entrenched bureaucrats to do something different. Every transit agency in America has thought of this, and run the numbers. It doesn't usually pencil out, which is the exact reason that so many big transit agencies don't do it. If you want transit agencies to get into the business of spending more money in order to look like they're spending less money, then we are going to have to disagree about how transit agencies should comport themselves.

[TakeFive]

Well it's no surprise we'd be talking past each other. I notice how you totally avoid my points in favor of 'tried and true' platitudes. Perhaps I can add some important clarification.

A) In 2010 nobody had ever heard of Uber/Lyft. By 2015, 15% had at least heard of them. By fall of 2018, 36% had actually tried one of the apps. But that couldn't have happened; we're so tethered to the past, what has always worked. Eh, call me a millennial at heart.

B) As the Mayor of Westminster, we've held our election and voters agree that henceforth we'll pay RTD five-tenths percent for FasTracks and being a good neighbor but keep the other five-tenths to run our own transit service to meet local needs. So with respect to RTD's bus costs and fleet mix, that's no longer a concern of ours.

I even told the voters your claim that paying 10 times as much for vehicles and maintenance of larger tires, break assemblies etc was supposedly cheaper according to you. Apparently most got a chuckle out of that one. You might be surprised at how efficiently our Hispanic culture can execute transit service as apposed to you Gringo's.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Well it's no surprise we'd be talking past each other. I notice how you totally avoid my points in favor of 'tried and true' platitudes. Perhaps I can add some important clarification.

A) In 2010 nobody had ever heard of Uber/Lyft. By 2015, 15% had at least heard of them. By fall of 2018, 36% had actually tried one of the apps. But that couldn't have happened; we're so tethered to the past, what has always worked. Eh, call me a millennial at heart.

B) As the Mayor of Westminster, we've held our election and voters agree that henceforth we'll pay RTD five-tenths percent for FasTracks and being a good neighbor but keep the other five-tenths to run our own transit service to meet local needs. So with respect to RTD's bus costs and fleet mix, that's no longer a concern of ours.

I even told the voters your claim that paying 10 times as much for vehicles and maintenance of larger tires, break assemblies etc was supposedly cheaper according to you. Apparently most got a chuckle out of that one. You might be surprised at how efficiently our Hispanic culture can execute transit service as apposed to you Gringo's.

You know that no one pays attention to your multi-post diatribes and has zero idea what you're circling back too, right? You're literally the guy talking to himself and it's confusing as hell to try and understand your argument.

How about taking a moment to circle back to your premise that RTD should be downsized to a pure regional transit agency (the rail lines and the regional buses) and each city is left to their own devices to craft some sort of local transit option? That would provide the context on why you're arguing for a smaller transit system that is ultimately an on-demand system with public subsidies for suburban locales.


Or is this just how early onset dementia manifests itself?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Or is this just how early onset dementia manifests itself?

Certainly short-term memory isn't as sharp as once it was but the wisdom, common sense and reasoning remains strong. I do get a kick out of your barbs though. Such substance is impressive.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

How about taking a moment to circle back to your premise that RTD should be downsized to a pure regional transit agency (the rail lines and the regional buses) and each city is left to their own devices to craft some sort of local transit option? That would provide the context on why you're arguing for a smaller transit system that is ultimately an on-demand system with public subsidies for suburban locales.

That's close enough.

Funny thing about politics in that it's not a problem until it is. What the voters might come to prefer in all seven counties is ofc ultimately up to them. Blowing through 2/3 of a Billion $'s every year is not my kind of fun.

I'm off to update my Uber auto inspection. Later.

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

As the Mayor of Westminster

Wait, what?! You're the mayor of Westminster, now? If you're trying to be cute in your awe-shucks kind of way, you've completely lost me.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

Wait, what?! You're the mayor of Westminster, now? If you're trying to be cute in your awe-shucks kind of way, you've completely lost me.

Wut, you missed the final post of my Fall Series?

[The Dirt]

Uhhhh

[TakeFive]

United is revving up to use those new gates coming online at DIA

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...ight-goal.html

United Airlines (Nasdaq: UAL) is aiming to add 50 more daily flights out of Denver International Airport by 2020. That will bring DIA’s top airline passenger carrier’s total daily flights to 550.

“Denver is United’s fastest growing hub,” Jonathan Guerin, a United spokesman, said in an email. “This summer we surpassed more than 500 daily departures, a record for United in Denver and in 2020 we expect to bring Denver up to 550 peak day departures — that’s almost 150 flights per day added over four years.”

Very impressive.

Last year DEN passenger traffic grew by 5.1% which is solid but not quite as much as SeaTac which grew by 6.2%. But wait... for the 1st half of 2019 DEN grew by 6.1% (according to Wikipedia). If that rate holds for the rest of the year the new record would be 68.4 million passengers.

[TakeFive]

Since many of you are intensely interested in short-term car rentals...

Hello, goodbye to short-term rentals
October 28, 2019 By ALEXA ST. JOHN - Automotive News

While major automakers have been pulling out of short-term rental programs, new players are nonetheless pushing into the space.

Among the companies still placing bets on this part of the mobility revolution are PSA Group and most recently, Penske Automotive Group.

Best of luck!

"There's a lot of operational challenges with running this kind of business. So far, no one has come up with a viable operational model that makes commercial sense," said Sam Abuelsamid, principal analyst at Navigant Research. "For a lot of use cases, it's less convenient than just opening up the Uber or Lyft app and requesting a ride."

Perhaps there's a niche out there that I'm not aware of as automotive companies look for new ways to make money.

"If you look at how easy it is to use Uber and Lyft — and you've seen both of those models from a top-line revenue growth really scale, from a geographic coverage really scale — there's really not a lot of friction for the consumer," Liniado said. "If the consumer can't do it easily, they're going to revert to what is the easiest thing to do."

[TakeFive]

Holy smokes batman
Austin wants a couple of light rail lines

Cap Metro transit plan price tag could reach $9.8B
Oct 30, 2019 By Phillip Jankowski - Austin Statesman

A plan to remake Austin’s transit system over the next two decades could cost as much as $9.8 billion, according to initial cost estimates released Tuesday. That most expensive option would build two light rail lines, one running along a north-south axis, and the other connecting Austin-Bergstrom International Airport to downtown.

Local officials would seek to cover 40% of the cost from federal grants and pay for the rest likely by borrowing money through issuing bonds.

The estimates come from initial engineering studies conducted by Capital Metro this year as part of its ambitious Project Connect plan that will likely figure heavily into a transit bond in 2020.

No doubt Austin needs to do something and at least they have lots of tech-bros to help pay for expensive toys.

Sure is nice to know that Denver already has its light rail bones.

[TakeFive]

Lookie what I found


Larger buses common in Kansas City aren’t practical for the scattered ridership around Johnson County. FILE PHOTO/The Kansas City Star

https://www.kansascity.com/news/loca...235714552.html

I vaguely recall proposing this very same idea recently.

‘AN IMMEDIATE SUCCESS’

An experimental, Uber-like microtransit system in Johnson County is in such high demand, it is poised to become a permanent fixture — signaling a desire for alternative modes of transportation in the suburbs.

Same story in K.C. as elsewhere.

In his 11 years on the county board of commissioners, James Allen said he’s heard stories of residents struggling to make it around Johnson County without a set of car keys. Bus stops are often not within walking distance, and ridership on the public transportation system has been historically low, officials said.

So its going well, then?

With hundreds of riders hailing the vans each week, officials said the service is filling in the gaps in Johnson County’s public transportation system — dropping riders off at bus stops or anywhere in the service area.

“In today’s world, people are looking for alternate transportation, and this addresses those concerns,” Allen said. “So I definitely think this is needed. There’s an important segment of our population that needs alternate transportation.

One would think that if Kansas City can afford to make something like this work that maybe it wouldn't be beneath the suburbs of Denver to give it a try?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

One would think that if Kansas City can afford to make something like this work that maybe it wouldn't be beneath the suburbs of Denver to give it a try?

Like this?

https://www.rtd-denver.com/services/flexride

Look! It even has a map of suburbs where this service is available:

FlexRide

Westminster also received a grant to fire up this service up north.

It also has a real shitty app which needs a ton of work. Plus it's ADA accessible which is kind of an important thing (have to see how those ADA lawsuits against Uber and Lyft proceed and how it affects their business model).

Per passenger subsidy for this service is $19.97 and the average fare is $1.14. The perception is more of a mobility option of last resort than a viable commuting alternative. But how to change this so the working poor flock en mass instead of making poor financial decisions? Offering the service via Uber is certainly an option.

[Cirrus]

I literally posted photos of transit agencies with tiny buses on the previous page. It's not a gotcha to find another one. My entire point is that transit agencies do this calculation all the time, and buy/don't buy smaller buses based on actual cost saving data, which is more complicated than "few riders = small bus."

As to the point about having municipalities run their own local bus services with a regional agency handling cross-border ones, broadly I think that's a good idea, with a few caveats that we can discuss if you want to.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Like this?

You're asking ME to defend RTD?

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Per passenger subsidy for this service is $19.97 and the average fare is $1.14.

That service needs to be shit-canned.

My K.C. post does point out the (repeated) failure of basic bus routes in the Suburbs where at least this micro-transit option has been a popular success.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

The perception is more of a mobility option of last resort than a viable commuting alternative. But how to change this so the working poor flock en mass instead of making poor financial decisions? Offering the service via Uber is certainly an option.

Well stated.

I don't have ALL the answers and some things are best left to people much smarter than I am. Seattle has started using micro-transit as a first and last mile access to light rail stations (as I understand it) and that also is apparently going very well.

Lastly, five-tenths percent sales tax is a significant chunk of money. If they can't find a transit mode that actually performs well then there's a whole lot of things that Westminster (et al) could use that money to accomplish.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

As to the point about having municipalities run their own local bus services with a regional agency handling cross-border ones, broadly I think that's a good idea, with a few caveats that we can discuss if you want to.

You must be getting old; you're too 'old-fashioned'.

[TakeFive]

Mighty impressive suburban TOD


Rendering courtesy Stantec via CREJ

Stantec to develop regional headquarters campus for Kiewit Corp. in RidgeGate
October 28, 2019 By Kris Oppermann Stern - CREJ

Stantec is serving as the architect and interior designer for the new regional headquarters campus for Kiewit Corp., one of North America’s largest construction and engineering organizations. The approximately 400,000-square-foot office complex is designed to accommodate more than 1,700 employees, enabling Kiewit to grow its presence in Denver and consolidate its existing employees, while providing flexibility for future growth.

“We designed this facility as a long-term investment for Kiewit, set to comfortably accommodate today’s top-tier talent but with the flexibility to adapt to future growth,” said Cindy Harvey, Stantec principal based in Denver.

Gotta hand it to Lone Tree; their long-term planning is paying off in spades.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

I literally posted photos of transit agencies with tiny buses on the previous page.

Not so tiny but I liked this one.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Vanpools are more common, although there's a fairly narrow niche where it makes sense to run a lot of these, but not to run real bus service:


image by lillypix on flickr

It's a fact that suburban routes with fixed stops (perhaps with rare exception) have poor ridership so it's a total waste of money. Wasting taxpayer money just because you have it, is silly. Find something productive to do with that hard-earned money or return it to the taxpayers.

Just spit-balling here but if more appropriate-sized buses picked passengers up where they lived that's half the problem solved. Along arterial roads it seems logical to stop at apartment complexes - if an app-based ride has been requested.

So you only go where riders are and with (Uber's) algorithm the rider(s) receive an ETA (which can be updated in real time) and are expected to be 'toes to the curb' when bus pulls up. Some apartments at peak times might have half-dozen riders. If the bus fills up after four stops then it's off to the light rail station which solves another huge complaint - too many stops and too much time.

Then you have another bus coming along that can be directed to riders that were passed up by the last bus and when that bus fills up you're off to the LRT station. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, it's not as efficient as Big Bertha buses that nobody rides - so it's obviously time to try something different. As I mentioned previously 'time and convenience' are just as important to the Working Poor as anybody else and they will happily pay a little more for service they like and appreciate.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Just spit-balling here but if more appropriate-sized buses picked passengers up where they lived that's half the problem solved. Along arterial roads it seems logical to stop at apartment complexes - if an app-based ride has been requested.

So you only go where riders are and with (Uber's) algorithm the rider(s) receive an ETA (which can be updated in real time) and are expected to be 'toes to the curb' when bus pulls up. Some apartments at peak times might have half-dozen riders. If the bus fills up after four stops then it's off to the light rail station which solves another huge complaint - too many stops and too much time.

The biggest advantage of this approach to transit is it solves the biggest problems for why people don't ride big buses along routes with fixed stops.

• Lack of convenient access is why most people don't even bother
• Too many stops; it takes too long to get to where you need to go

It would take some time, six months to a year for people to become aware of the option, try it, adopt it. During this time the algorithm would continue to collect data on where people are coming from and where they are going which would allow for making adjustments to improve the service.

The ideal is for 15 to 20-passenger vehicles to focus on higher density arterial corridors while 8 to 10-passenger vans focus on serving neighborhoods where the service is desired.

I've even decided on how to handle (introductory) fares. Everybody pays a $2.50 fee plus 25 cents per mile. So if you're going 4 miles it would cost $3.50; if you're going 8 miles it would cost $4.50 and so on. After a year the per mile cost might need to be raised to say 40 or 50 cents a mile which is still very attractive for service that people would actually appreciate.

Just for grins and to demonstrate how different Phoenix is, I spent Friday and Saturday at Home Depot's Garden Center picking out plants to transplant to get me through until end of February, 1st of March. Having previously picked up some Vinca plants I added Snap Dragons, Petunia's and some Celosia which have nice fall colors. When I went back on Saturday to pick up a couple more plants the place was jam-packed and busy. Just goes to show how different life in the desert is.

With my fall cleaning finished and now my planting done, I'm ready to drive.

[TakeFive]

TOD at Westminster Station

https://denverite.com/2019/11/03/a-d...nster-station/

The Urban Land Conservancy, a Denver-based real estate nonprofit, has snapped up transit-oriented property in Westminster on which it envisions a development with homes for both renters and buyers and its signature mix of uses and income levels.

“We don’t have a lot of affordable housing along the transit corridor that is home ownership,” Bustos said. “We think that’s what’s missing.”
Some of the housing will be offered at market rates. Bustos said offering housing for a range of incomes “creates a better balance for the community.”

“That diversity in what they (Urban Land Conservancy) can bring to the table is really nice,” said Jenni Grafton, the housing and transit-oriented development manager for Westminster’s city government.

The site is in a 58-acre area where Westminster officials expect major growth and investment in coming years, in part because it is anchored by the transit station

A good amount of continued patience and I have no doubt that FasTracks will ultimately pay off in spades.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

https://denverite.com/2019/11/04/we-...-second-worst/

Fascinating article from Denverite ranking 28 train stations. I'm really interested to see Broadway Station, 38th and Blake, and Belleview station climb up this ranking.

[TakeFive]

What's wrong with this picture?


Image courtesy of Westword

Addressing the current state of RTD, Chase Woodruff - Westword has a rather long, meandering retrospective with standard transit 'wisdom' that for the uninitiated may be a worthy read.

Thinking of San Diego as being a very good peer city comparison I checked into their financial performance. In 2018 they had a recover rate of just under 40% excluding depreciation and a recovery ratio of nearly 26% after depreciation is included which would compare to RTD's 18.5%. While not ideal a ratio of 25% should be the absolute minimum.

What's wrong with this picture?

Everyone should ride RTD buses?
Why is that?
Because we say so!
What if it's not convenient or useful to people?
Doesn't matter; everyone should ride da bus.
Have you ever considered making the service more useful to people?
Why would we do that?

Picture some young entrepreneurs meeting with a room full of Venture Capitalists asking for hundreds of millions of $'s using the same logic as transit agencies? Either laughter or total confusion would be the response.

But this is Public Transportation; it's a gift to the poor people.
But poor people are no more likely to use transit if it's not useful.
Well everybody should ride our buses.
I know: because you say so.

Have you ever considered creating a 'public' system that would actually be useful and popular and approach 100% recovery ratio - before depreciation?
Nah, that's too hard. Everybody should ride the bus.