Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

True. But dealing with abuse or safety issues is different. Its driving.

Like I said, you don't get it. There's a whole lot more to the job than just "driving".

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

Like I said, you don't get it. There's a whole lot more to the job than just "driving".

I'm sure it's a thankless job, when your driving a semi you don't have people screaming in your face or trying to assault you!

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

I'm sure it's a thankless job, when your driving a semi you don't have people screaming in your face or trying to assault you!

It's not thankless. Many passengers appreciate a good bus operator. But take your two points along with city traffic and ignorant drivers (cyclists to semis), inadequate schedule time, inadequate washroom facilities and so on and so on. Throw in to that mix a workday that could take 13 or more hours to complete for 7.5 hours pay. Add buses with poor suspensions and cheap seats pounding over Winnipeg roads leading to workplace injuries for back problems and an employer that only cares about the bottom line rather than long term costs.

You may think "why do they get paid that much?" There's a good reason. It takes a special kind of person to do the job and there aren't a lot of those around. If there were WT wouldn't be short 70+ bus operators. And pay needs to be commensurate with the challenges of the job. Even at the current rate of pay which posters here say is too high, it isn't enough to attract the right people to the job.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

It's not thankless. Many passengers appreciate a good bus operator. But take your two points along with city traffic and ignorant drivers (cyclists to semis), inadequate schedule time, inadequate washroom facilities and so on and so on. Throw in to that mix a workday that could take 13 or more hours to complete for 7.5 hours pay. Add buses with poor suspensions and cheap seats pounding over Winnipeg roads leading to workplace injuries for back problems and an employer that only cares about the bottom line rather than long term costs.

You may think "why do they get paid that much?" There's a good reason. It takes a special kind of person to do the job and there aren't a lot of those around. If there were WT wouldn't be short 70+ bus operators. And pay needs to be commensurate with the challenges of the job. Even at the current rate of pay which posters here say is too high, it isn't enough to attract the right people to the job.

I don't agree, I think as long as the pay is enough to retain and maintain levels as needed than we should not pay a penny over that number. A persons value is determined by the rarity of their required skill set.

There are only so many people who can preform surgery, so we need to pay them more to retain them. There are no required skills to be a buss driver, which is why someone with a grade 10 education is qualified. Therefor we can pay them less because there is a much larger pool of people who can do the job.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by dmacc

I don't agree, I think as long as the pay is enough to retain and maintain levels as needed than we should not pay a penny over that number. A persons value is determined by the rarity of their required skill set.

There are only so many people who can preform surgery, so we need to pay them more to retain them. There are no required skills to be a buss driver, which is why someone with a grade 10 education is qualified. Therefor we can pay them less because there is a much larger pool of people who can do the job.

It isn't just rarity of a good or service that determines its value, it's also need. If, as the previous writer indicated, WT is short 70+ operators, then that is a significant need that is not being filled at the current rate of pay. Even though many have the required skill set, not enough of these people are choosing to be an operator. The supply is not large enough to meet the demand.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

It isn't just rarity of a good or service that determines its value, it's also need. If, as the previous writer indicated, WT is short 70+ operators, then that is a significant need that is not being filled at the current rate of pay. Even though many have the required skill set, not enough of these people are choosing to be an operator. The supply is not large enough to meet the demand.

I get what you're saying, I didn't understand what the previous writer was saying. It's kind of like work on the oil rigs. people were being paid huge amounts because the need for labour required the pay. I agree with that but is WT severely short staffed and require that many drivers?

[CoryB]

^^ The challenge isn't so much if WT is or isn't short staffed on drivers but rather the long haul trucking market is still a highly fluid employment field with companies always looking. That pushes up the wages for large vehicle commercial drivers. While a transit operator can have a lower level of commercial license it isn't a big stretch to get from the license needed to be a transit operator to the one needed to be a long haul truck driver. If the wage gap becomes too large between those it really puts pressure on transit operators to make the switch.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by CoryB

^^ The challenge isn't so much if WT is or isn't short staffed on drivers but rather the long haul trucking market is still a highly fluid employment field with companies always looking. That pushes up the wages for large vehicle commercial drivers. While a transit operator can have a lower level of commercial license it isn't a big stretch to get from the license needed to be a transit operator to the one needed to be a long haul truck driver. If the wage gap becomes too large between those it really puts pressure on transit operators to make the switch.

While the skill set may be similar, the work environment is wholly different. Long haul drivers could be gone days at a time, sleep on a truck, live out of rest stops and gas stations. Bus drivers go home after work.

Someone mentioned oil rigs.. they also have to pay a lot because you have to convince people to leave home to live on a camp with thousands of adults (many of whom have severe drug/alcohol abuse problems), and do gruelling and often dangerous work.

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

It's not thankless. Many passengers appreciate a good bus operator. But take your two points along with city traffic and ignorant drivers (cyclists to semis), inadequate schedule time, inadequate washroom facilities and so on and so on. Throw in to that mix a workday that could take 13 or more hours to complete for 7.5 hours pay. Add buses with poor suspensions and cheap seats pounding over Winnipeg roads leading to workplace injuries for back problems and an employer that only cares about the bottom line rather than long term costs.

You may think "why do they get paid that much?" There's a good reason. It takes a special kind of person to do the job and there aren't a lot of those around. If there were WT wouldn't be short 70+ bus operators. And pay needs to be commensurate with the challenges of the job. Even at the current rate of pay which posters here say is too high, it isn't enough to attract the right people to the job.

So your argument is that Transit doesnt support their staff enough so they should pay more to the employees to do a job that requires minimal specialized skill (to be fair, I dont know how to drive a bus...I also dont know how to drive a semi).

Im all for Transit having better services and treatment for their staff. But saying "we are sort of a crappy company so we will over-pay" makes little sense.

If you present me a petition for Transit to be a better company for its employees, Ill sign it. Pay drivers more? Nope. Now, should transit become a highly profitable enterprise, I have no issue with increasing pay.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

So your argument is that Transit doesnt support their staff enough so they should pay more to the employees to do a job that requires minimal specialized skill (to be fair, I dont know how to drive a bus...I also dont know how to drive a semi).

Im all for Transit having better services and treatment for their staff. But saying "we are sort of a crappy company so we will over-pay" makes little sense.

If you present me a petition for Transit to be a better company for its employees, Ill sign it. Pay drivers more? Nope. Now, should transit become a highly profitable enterprise, I have no issue with increasing pay.

[windypeg]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

So your argument is that Transit doesnt support their staff enough so they should pay more to the employees to do a job that requires minimal specialized skill (to be fair, I dont know how to drive a bus...I also dont know how to drive a semi).

Im all for Transit having better services and treatment for their staff. But saying "we are sort of a crappy company so we will over-pay" makes little sense.

If you present me a petition for Transit to be a better company for its employees, Ill sign it. Pay drivers more? Nope. Now, should transit become a highly profitable enterprise, I have no issue with increasing pay.

This kind of situation arises in a lot of union environments. Wage demands, generous benefit packages and all the union red tape BS means the employer has to cut corners elsewhere. They end up short-staffed and dysfunctional and it puts a lot of strain on the staff, which the union then uses to argue for more wage increases, and so on.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

So your argument is that Transit doesnt support their staff enough so they should pay more to the employees to do a job that requires minimal specialized skill (to be fair, I dont know how to drive a bus...I also dont know how to drive a semi).

Nope. Aside from the fact that it's more than a minimal specialized skill and I take personal insult to your assumption of that, I'll quote myself:

"It takes a special kind of person to do the job and there aren't a lot of those around. If there were WT wouldn't be short 70+ bus operators. And pay needs to be commensurate with the challenges of the job. Even at the current rate of pay which posters here say is too high, it isn't enough to attract the right people to the job."

[cllew]

It's too bad the transit rodeo skill test route is not set up right now. I'd like to see some of the posters here try and go through it and see how well they do.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by cllew

It's too bad the transit rodeo skill test route is not set up right now. I'd like to see some of the posters here try and go through it and see how well they do.

I would LOVE to do that. I've been driving since I was 12 and still enjoy it. Traveled all across western Canada and back and could have done the other direction right then. Not so much my traveling partner haha.

[Kinguni]

Originally Posted by cllew

It's too bad the transit rodeo skill test route is not set up right now. I'd like to see some of the posters here try and go through it and see how well they do.

Bus rodeos are fun. Last one in Winnipeg was in 1997. Management/employee relations were at a low point and they couldn't get enough operators interested (no one wanted to drive a bus on their day off) so management cancelled it after that. If it was revived I think they'd get a lot of support now. Mind you, part of the rodeo for operators was appearance and the uniform looked much more professional back then.

I think it was $5.00 for the public to try their hand at driving a bus. Driving is the easy part of the job though. They used to say they could teach anyone to drive a bus. The other skills needed for the job can't be taught. I disagree with the former however.

[cllew]

I was an impartial judge for one of the stations for a number of years until Transit and the Union stopped having the Family Day/Community Open house/ Skills competition.

The drivers who competed made it look so easy compared to the media who were invited to run the course after the drivers finished, and took out traffic cones / big orange plastic barrels all over the place

[Kinguni]

Love watching the barrels fly!

[Biff]

Good conversation.....belongs in the Transit thread though.

[LilZebra]

I think its not the Pay, but the perceived on the job of Safety for the drivers of why they are short of drivers.

Time to invest in Transit here. Time to privatize. Get the Union out of WT.

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by Kinguni

Nope. Aside from the fact that it's more than a minimal specialized skill and I take personal insult to your assumption of that, I'll quote myself:

"It takes a special kind of person to do the job and there aren't a lot of those around. If there were WT wouldn't be short 70+ bus operators. And pay needs to be commensurate with the challenges of the job. Even at the current rate of pay which posters here say is too high, it isn't enough to attract the right people to the job."

Why does it take a special kind of person? I've met some particularly nice drivers over the years but no one I would identify as any more special than anyone else in a public facing job.

You have to drive. Its minimal specialized in that you need to drive a large vehicle. Im not sure how many people who drive well every day would fail a training course on driving a larger vehicle. Maybe its a lot.

Is there a requirement to graduate high school? You literally need to know how to drive and not be an idiot (ie. keep a schedule, remember your route, be pleasant to the public).

What other "specialization" is required? Why is it special? because it can be unsafe? Take that up with WT and law enforcement. If the job was perfectly safe, would it still require a "special person"?

You're taking offense. Im simply saying $53,000 is good money to drive.