Pattullo Bridge Discussion: Upgrades/Replacement | U/C

[crazyjoeda]

Originally Posted by Pinion

How is it the government has a billion dollars to spend on this, but when the older, smaller, more important Lions Gate was falling apart, all they could do was spruce it up a bit?

Seems like people who chose to live out in distant suburbs get preferential treatment by Translink.

1. Surrey has way more people than the North Shore
2. The Lions Gate Bridge is a historic landmark
3. Vancouver won't allow any of Stanley Park to be ripped up just so a few people from West Vancouver wont have to wait so long in traffic.

[hollywoodnorth]

the "tied-arch" is my fav as well. Looks like the Current bridge a bit.

[deasine]

Yeah I have to agree that the tied-arch is the best... it's so nice and simple and like hollywoodnorth said, the arch is used in the old Patullo Bridge.

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Note that Lions Gate Bridge is a Provincial Highway Bridge - not in Translink's jurisdiction (i.e. not within its power to fix up).
The West End (and the City of Vancouver) did not want added lanes or more traffic coming into downtown Vancouver.
The Vancouver Parks Board did not want encraoachment into the park.
West and North Vancouverites did not want to pay a toll for added lanes.

South of Fraser people can afford tolls, but the rich North Shorer's can't? They must be stingy and greedy as f*ck.

I say toll it, double-deck it or twin it with a replica, and build an underground causeway through Stanley Park.

[paradigm4]

Originally Posted by Smooth

It would be nice if the bridge design was something other than a cable-stayed bridge. With the Golden Ears Bridge, New Port Mann, Expo Line Bridge (Skybridge), Alex Fraser & Canada Line Bridge the Fraser River crossings are all beginning to look quite similar. I'm assuming that the price of materials makes cable-stayed bridges the most attractive option for engineers though.

Originally Posted by Smooth

Of the 3 styles shown on the cover of the report I think I like that "tied-arch" the most. It's shape is the most similar to the current bridge and it offers a bit of variety to what else has been/is being built.

I'm sure all bridge designs can adequately handle earthquakes. I think the cable-stayed bridges can do it with less material though so that's why they're en-vogue right now.

I agree wholeheartedly here! No more cable-stayed unless it's a good reason.

I absolutely love the tied-arch design! It's so modern, and unlike anything else around here, plus it could be made to incorporate some elements of the existing Patullo for some historic context.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

build an underground causeway through Stanley Park.

i was thinking of that as well, but i assume it would be hideously expensive.

[LeftCoaster]

^well yeah especially considering the whole thing would have to be bored.

I always thought it would be cool to make a 6 lane tunnel and keep the bridge/causway as a greenway/transit bridge.... maybe even a streetcar line. It would make a pretty killer tourist attraction if you ask me... park on top of the bridge.

[Jared]

Cable Stayed Bridges are fairly efficient structures, and they're also generally considered aesthetically pleasing.

We will have a lot of them around though:

Alex Fraser
SkyBridge
Canada Line North Arm
Port Mann 2
Golden Ears
New Pitt River Bridge
Coast Meridian Overpass

Patullo would make number 8....

[ravman]

Tolled Pattullo another broken promise from Campbell

SURREY – The decision to put a toll on the Pattullo Bridge is another broken promise from the Campbell government, the New Democrats said today.

“Another day, and another broken promise from the Campbell Liberals. The people of Metro Vancouver were told there wouldn’t be a toll on the Pattullo. We need real solutions for traffic congestion, and Gordon Campbell’s approach just isn’t cutting it,” said Surrey-Newton MLA Harry Bains.

“Campbell is hitting commuters with his gas tax, the highest transit fares in the country, and now we’re facing new tolls. We don’t yet know what these new tolls will look like, but one thing is very clear: Gordon Campbell wants to keep reaching into your pocketbook,” said Bains.

Bains noted that the Pattullo is a deadly bridge that desperately needs to be replaced, but the Campbell government has done nothing about it even though they have had years to address the problem.

“If the Campbell government were really serious about alleviating traffic congestion, they would start by developing a comprehensive transportation plan that doesn’t just shift congestion from one part of Metro Vancouver to another,” said Delta North MLA Guy Gentner.

Gentner noted that commuters wanting to avoid tolls on the Port Mann, Golden Ears, and Pattullo bridges will have to travel through North Delta to the Alex Fraser, which would place a significant strain on the community.

“To make matters worse, the Campbell government’s hand-picked TransLink board made this decision behind closed doors, and without any public consultation,” said Gentner.

Carole James and the NDP are pushing for real transportation alternatives, including comprehensive planning and expanded, affordable transit.

[Nutterbug]

^ I'd like to know where Carole and the NDP plan to find money for the "expanded, affordable transit".

[ravman]

well that $460ish million dollar bribe can help. ending subsidies to the big polluters like the oil and gas sector... etc... it can be done and it will be done by Carole!

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by ravman

well that $460ish million dollar bribe can help. ending subsidies to the big polluters like the oil and gas sector... etc...

They get provincial subsidies at a time of record profits?

[Stingray2004]

Ravman, I have no idea why ya keep posting these silly NDP press releases onto this forum.

For example:

Gentner noted that commuters wanting to avoid tolls on the Port Mann, Golden Ears, and Pattullo bridges will have to travel through North Delta to the Alex Fraser, which would place a significant strain on the community.

Delta North MLA Guy Gentner has no idea what he's talking about. For decades North Delta residents have complained about the truck traffic running through their neighbourhoods along River Road. Once the SFPR is built, it will skirt the Fraser River running along industrial areas taking truck traffic away from North Delta neighbourhoods!

well that $460ish million dollar bribe can help. ending subsidies to the big polluters like the oil and gas sector... etc...

It seems that ya don't understand what ya are talking about.

There are no "subsidies" just "incentives" for natural gas exploration:

1. Summer drilling;
2. Deep drilling;
3. Marginal recovery and low production wells, which would otherwise be shut-down;

The three programs discussed above, plus some smaller ones, have generated $900 million in additional natural gas royalties for the province.

That's net of the value of the credits, which tallied at about $250 million.

It's called economics 101. And who brought in those incentives??? None other than former NDP premier Dan Miller during the late 1990's.

And that's why BC's crown rights land sales are double that of Alberta this calendar year, due to its royalty regime for "unconventional" drilling, irrespective of energy prices.

And you are saying that the NDP is now gonna get rid of 'em so BC will potentially forego billions in additional revenue well into the future for infrastructure projects like the Pattullo Bridge???

it can be done and it will be done by Carole!

Now I understand why political pundit Alex Tsakumis (who's no friend of the government) wrote this a couple of days ago:

For over a year now, I have been telling anyone within earshot that if Carole James is elected premier in 2009, we'll be in deep trouble. Her leadership qualities are more suited to running a lemonade stand - on a good day. Almost every issue the Opposition has touched since 2005 has been splendidly mishandled.

Ooopps, thread drift.

Back to the Pattullo Bridge.

[djh]

Has the province explored the idea of building the new bridge as a tolled bridge AND keeping the old bridge as a non-tolled bridge? Or, even better, building the new bridge and making it one way, and keeping the old bridge as one way in the other direction?

[Jared]

Originally Posted by djh

Has the province explored the idea of building the new bridge as a tolled bridge AND keeping the old bridge as a non-tolled bridge? Or, even better, building the new bridge and making it one way, and keeping the old bridge as one way in the other direction?

The reasoning behind the new bridge seems to be that the old one would be more expensive to repair than just building a new one. As such, I doubt they'll keep the old one.

[djh]

Repair? I thought it was structurally sound, and the main 'repairs' per se were to make it safer - i.e., centre medians, etc. Is that not correct?

[urbanizer405]

I'd prefer a new bridge, though i'm a little iffy on the tolls.

Anyway, i've been using Google Sketchup to create a new design for a replacement bridge, kind of a "different" cable-stayed bridge:

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by crazyjoeda

1. Surrey has way more people than the North Shore
2. The Lions Gate Bridge is a historic landmark
3. Vancouver won't allow any of Stanley Park to be ripped up just so a few people from West Vancouver wont have to wait so long in traffic.

1. Lions Gate and Pattullo have comparable traffic levels and Lions Gate is the only reasonable option for most North Shore/Squamish/Whistler/Ferry travellers.

2. I don't think "historic landmarks" should be preserved if they're woefully inadequate for today's needs.

3. Yet it's okay to let increasing numbers of commuters from distant suburbs, who chose to live in the middle of nowhere, bumrush Vancouver? I almost feel like I should move to Surrey or Port Moody so I can get better transit than I do living within eyesight of my work right now.

[deasine]

I don't remember TransLink promising anything about a "free" bridge, and even if they had, it has nothing to do with the Provincial Government.

Anyway great rendering urbanizer205.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by Pinion

1. Lions Gate and Pattullo have comparable traffic levels and Lions Gate is the only reasonable option for most North Shore/Squamish/Whistler/Ferry travellers.

2. I don't think "historic landmarks" should be preserved if they're woefully inadequate for today's needs.

3. Yet it's okay to let increasing numbers of commuters from distant suburbs, who chose to live in the middle of nowhere, bumrush Vancouver? I almost feel like I should move to Surrey or Port Moody so I can get better transit than I do living within eyesight of my work right now.

1. i would think most people use hwy #1 to get to whistler and the ferries - unless they live downtown or west side of vancouver

most of east vancouver and the eastern suburbs have easy access to hwy #1

2. i agree but again no one wants the extra traffic going through stanley park into downtown which cannot handle large volumes of traffic as it is

3. they are not choosing to live in the middle of nowhere - I am sure numbers can help prove that most people who work south of fraser also live south of fraser - those that work downtown are already using skytrain for those trips