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  #1041  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2007, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Downtown Bolivar View Post
^^^Seems like St. John and NB in general would need a significant rail infrastruction upgrade for that to come true--hasn't a lot of it been removed--especially the line directly east toward St. Stephen and Calais? CP's pullout really massacred things.
From what I understand, NB Southern took over most of it...
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  #1042  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2007, 9:16 PM
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From what I understand, NB Southern took over most of it...
There used to be a line going straight along the coast through St. George, but it was torn up in the 80s (a few years before CP pulled out).

There's still a line to St. Stephen, but it comes in from the north and connects to the main line at McAdam.
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  #1043  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2007, 7:35 PM
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The Lost Valley -the legacy of S.J. Urban Renewal

I haven't been back to Saint John for many years but I follow its commercial, political and cultural evolution from afar. I don't see that its planning priorities, commercial strategies or even the aspirations of the city folk are any different than what we encounter here in Metro Vancouver. Both cities now measure advancement by counting the number of the cruise ships in their harbor and are deeply fixated on real estate speculation. Both populations seem to take their ideas and opinions from a powerful news media, which champions every proposed initiative as "world class," using words with the letter "V" to describe latent potential. - "It's vital to create a vibrant economy and fund world class venues." Ugh.

I have always been interested in the concept of Urban Renewal as practiced in larger American cities, and as
perpetrated in Saint John in the 1960s and 1970s. In the case of the old Valley community, destruction was total, and the Valley diaspora are now scattered all over Canada and the United States.
During the coming year I will be exploring this topic on a
new Blog, beginning with the history and concluding with the legacy - where once there were people and industry now is a sterile landscape - a freeway, a new arena named for a rail station in a culture that has abandoned train travel, and a few economy condos on the ancient rock face. If you would like to share your own knowledge of the Lost Valley, please get in touch with me.
http://thelostvalley.blogspot.com/


Last edited by Ronald Jack; Oct 8, 2007 at 7:17 PM.
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  #1044  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2007, 2:25 AM
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New office project

2 Stonegate Drive, Saint John, NB



Prestigious new office premises under construction in The Highlands of Drury Cove Business Park on the banks of the Kennebecasis River. Class “A” office space featuring high end executive style offices. Air conditioning, security system, indoor & outdoor surface parking. Office finishes to suit tenant. Unit 1 boasts 10,000 -13,000 square feet of ground floor space featuring water front location with spectacular view. Unit 2 is 5,500 sq ft. (overlooking the cove). Spaces can be combined for a total square footage of 18,500 square feet. Lease rates starting at $24.00 per square foot gross Drury Cove is Greater Saint John’s newest and most prestigious Developments. Only 10 minutes from Uptown Saint John. The Park includes; executive homes and condominiums, walking trails, and dock access for boaters.
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  #1045  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2007, 2:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronald Jack View Post
I haven't been back to Saint John for many years but I follow its commercial, political and cultural evolution from afar. I don't see that its planning priorities, commercial strategies or even the aspirations of the city folk are any different than what we encounter here in Metro Vancouver. Both cities now measure advancement by counting the number of the cruise ships in their harbor and are deeply fixated on real estate speculation. Both populations seem to take their ideas and opinions from a powerful news media, which champions every proposed initiative as "world class," using words with the letter "V" to describe latent potential. - "It's vital to create a vibrant economy and fund world class venues." Ugh.

I have always been interested in the concept of Urban Renewal as practiced in larger American cities, and as
perpetrated in Saint John in the 1960s and 1970s. In the case of the old Valley community, destruction was total, and the Valley diaspora are now scattered all over Canada and the United States.
During the coming year I will be exploring this topic on a
new Blog, beginning with the history and concluding with the legacy - where once there were people and industry now is a sterile landscape - a freeway, a new rail station for a culture that has abandoned train travel, and a few economy condos on the ancient rock face. If you would like to share your own knowledge of the Lost Valley, please get in touch with me.
http://thelostvalley.blogspot.com/

I always thought it was a shame that this structure was never built:
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  #1046  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2007, 7:01 AM
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You anticipated me. Bravo.
Still, as I wrote in the Blog, had that viaduct been built
I would never have been born. The (iron) butterfly effect.
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  #1047  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2007, 2:17 PM
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That viaduct was quite a concept. I always find my self getting into conversations about train soceity and culture and how much it must have differed to today's age. I know they are towns out by evendale and bellisle that were train towns and are no longer there. I was on a fishing trips in the woods and I came across an old town cemetary and a natural well and there were train tracks no longer used just down the trail it's kind of eery to think of that an entire community's resources can be shut off by the invention of the automobile and the train becoming a thing of the past.
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  #1048  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2007, 3:12 PM
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Powering the Gateway
Trade: Federal study lays out case for luring more trade through the East Coast


Quentin Casey
Telegraph-Journal
Published Saturday October 6th, 2007
Appeared on page C1
HALIFAX - The port of Saint John and the Greater Moncton airport seem poised to be New Brunswick's main contributions to an economic development plan that could pump thousands of job and billions of dollars into Atlantic Canada.

On Friday a report commissioned by the federal government stressed great potential in a so-called Atlantic Gateway initiative.

The idea is to build the region as an entry and exit point for international commerce.

Stronger marketing and improvements to local infrastructure, it says, will increase the amount of goods that enter local sea and airports and then travel by rail and road to North American markets.

Specifically, the report cites immense potential in growing container traffic from emerging economies in Asia.

The key is to make the Atlantic provinces the key eastern access point for trade coming through the Suez Canal.

"The study clearly demonstrates that an Atlantic gateway would help strengthen the region's economy and Canada's position in international trade," said Peter MacKay, the federal minister responsible the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency.

"The race is on to capture a growing share of the container trade coming from China, India and the Americas. We need to be better at marketing our assets and we need to be more efficient to win the race," he told a luncheon crowd gathered in a packed downtown Halifax ballroom.

"Success means greater prosperity for Atlantic Canada through a more robust presence and increased participation in international commerce."

According to the study, the economic boost of the gateway could, by 2025, produce 61,100 new jobs, $2.1 billion in wages and $3.4 billion in GDP growth.

Yet most indicators, from the focus of MacKay's speech to the opinion of local regional development experts, points to Nova Scotia, and specifically Halifax, as having the most to gain in direct benefits.

"New Brunswick is very much a secondary (area). That's the message that has to get out here," said Charles Cirtwill, acting president of the Atlantic Institute for Market Studies, a Halifax-based think-tank, following the announcement.

"This isn't a question of does the main gateway go to the port of Saint John, because it simply will never happen," Cirtwill said of Halifax's all-but-declared status as the main peg.

New Brunswick, he predicted, will be the beneficiary mainly of indirect spin-offs, particularly as goods make their way over land - to and from the Nova Scotia capital.

The role of Saint John, the province's largest seaport, is still to be defined. But the report lists it as key to container traffic and boosting the number of cruise ships that visit the area.

Capt. Al Soppitt, the port's president and CEO, hopes Saint John and Halifax can forge a strong partnership as the gateway is developed.

"Together we can form a powerful alliance"¦. We're both (working) under capacity," he said in an interview. "I think there is opportunity for both.

"We're going to make sure Saint John is a leader in this initiative."

InterVISTAS Consulting Inc., the main firm behind the 144-page report, is now set to study the idea of a southern New Brunswick gateway, which will plug into the main project, Soppitt said.

The report also discusses an expected boost in air travel and air cargo. Listed as the province's major airport, the Moncton facility looks primed to be a second hub, behind Stanfield International in Halifax.

Rob Robichaud, the airport's CEO, says he is pleased to see airports mentioned in the plan.

"It makes excellent sense that we would be considered a cargo gateway," he said of site's close proximity to road and rail and warehousing facilities.

"Not all communities will be, on day one, benefiting as much as (perhaps) Halifax," he continued, "but as time progresses more communities will benefit."

MacKay said specific funding amounts and exactly which communities and facilities should expect a cash windfall is all yet to be decided.

In its last budget, the federal government allocated $2.1 billion for so-called for gateway projects - basically efforts to boost trade to and within Canada.

A separate pot of $1 billion dollars has already been invested into gateway projects on the west coast.

Premier Shawn Graham could not comment directly on the report late Friday, having yet to receive a complete copy.

He hopes some of the gateway money will be used to improve the province's highways, which will serve as gateway arteries to the U.S.

Graham rarely refers to the Gateway project - in stark contrast to Nova Scotia's Rodney MacDonald, one of the project's main boosters.

Still, Graham downplayed any slant toward Nova Scotia.

"I feel there is going to be a benefit here to the entire region," he said.
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  #1049  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2007, 4:09 PM
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Daring to dream big

Growth From heritage to high-rise housing developments, Saint John has major choices to make about the future of its city centre


John Mazerolle
Telegraph-Journal
Published Monday October 8th, 2007
Appeared on page C1

It's one of the most architecturally precious neighbourhoods in Canada, one of its oldest, and also one of its poorest.

It's this city's centre - from the tip of the South End to the throughway - and for the first time in recent memory it's starting to show signs of growth. Now there is just one not-so-simple question for the city's leadership and the public they serve: What do you want to do with it?

"There should be some debate on it," said Jim Baird, the city's commissioner of planning and development. "What do people want their community to look like?"

Baird, who spoke at length with the Telegraph-Journal in two recent interviews, says it's time for the public and common council to make some big choices about the future of the south-central peninsula. Should the city focus entirely on low-level infill, or should it be open to high-rise buildings that could change the character of the neighbourhood? What role should heritage play? How can the city use its existing buildings to their full potential? Where does affordable housing fit? And how does Saint John ensure that enough people are coming uptown in the first place?

At stake is the city's continued success during and after any economic boom: leaders argue that a strong, vibrant core benefits the city as a whole, improves tourism, and lessens the need for new infrastructure.

That's why the City of Saint John and its offshoots are dreaming big: the economic development agency Uptown Saint John Inc. hopes for 600 or more new people in the next three years, and over the long-term as many as 2,000 more residents. The city's inner harbour land use plan predicts a need for 500,000 more square feet of residential space. And Coun. Stephen Chase says 1,000 new units should be built in the city centre in the next five years.

"Could it happen?" Baird said of Chase's comments. "You could have 1,000 units, but if you did you'd be redeveloping the southern peninsula, and into something most Saint Johners wouldn't recognize."

He said that if the city focused entirely on in-fill, and didn't build any high-rises of eight stories, 500 units would be more likely.

Baird says discussing the core's future helps on three levels:

* It means council won't be coming at the issue cold the next time they're faced with an uptown development;

* It means the public will have a say in their uptown's future; and

* It means developers will know what they're getting into when they consider building.

Any plan put in place will have more relevance than normal for the simple reason that there is more construction going on in the city than normal, Baird said. He guesses that the council elected in 2008 will face twice as many public hearings as normal, and involving bigger projects, too.

Developers interested in large projects uptown used to get in touch with his department once every two years or so, he said. Now it happens about once a month.

"We're starting to see [construction] proposals come forward," said Baird, who has been a planner with the city for 28 years. "For many years, we could have the debate, but it was an academic debate because you didn't have the proposals of that magnitude."

Several other factors hint at an uptown that is on the verge of growth:

* After a more or less steady decline in population uptown over the last 150 years, the population stabilized and even grew a little in the 2006 census. The census area has changed slightly, but Peter Asimakos of Uptown Saint John Inc. says it looks like the population grew from about 8,100 people in 2001 to between 8,200 and 8,300 now.

* Real estate agent Jason Stephen pointed to the increased number of sales in the south-central peninsula over the last four years. There have been 67 sales so far this year, compared to 60 during the same time period last year, 52 in 2005 and 47 in 2004.

"There's not enough supply out there for demand," Stephen said. "More people would be buying homes on Germain Street if they were there."

* Leinster Court, the new Saint John Non-Profit Housing Inc. building uptown, isn't open yet, but there have already been "30 to 50" people interested in the 26 market-rate apartments, according to Non-Profit's management. (The 26 affordable housing units are already spoken for - no surprise given a waiting list into the hundreds.)

Uptown development was on the minds of several councillors recently as they toured Leinster Court, touted as a perfect example of the low-level in-fill that is one option for the South End. The uptown four-storey building went through a lengthy approval process because neighbours were worried it would affect the character of the streetscape, but councillors Stephen Chase, Ivan Court and Peter McGuire touted the building during the tour as a necessary addition to the uptown.

If more apartment buildings are built in the core, movie theatres and grocery stores will return as the population increases, both Court and Chase said.

The public will get its say about how the plan should unfold this winter. The city plans to consult with the community and merge three of its plans - the uptown plan, the peninsula neighbourhood plan, and the waterfront plan.

Through consultation with the community, the plan sets guidelines for the location and promotion of such things as green space and in-fill housing, as well as commercial, institutional, and port development. Baird wants the plan to be updated during the winter, before his retirement in May.

Whatever the public and council ultimately decide, one thing is for certain - they've got lots of space to play with. In March 2005, then-Uptown Saint John president Mike McGraw said there were "well over" 20 sites suitable for apartment buildings or condo projects and more than a dozen sites for single-family homes. Baird says little has changed since then.

If an urban plan is in place, the heated discussion about the next building like Leinster Court will start one step ahead, Baird said.

"Having a plan provides the context for the debate that will happen."
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  #1050  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2007, 4:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seely32 View Post

Quentin Casey
Telegraph-Journal :
On Friday a report commissioned by the federal government stressed great potential in a so-called Atlantic Gateway initiative.

The idea is to build the region as an entry and exit point for international commerce.

Stronger marketing and improvements to local infrastructure, it says, will increase the amount of goods that enter local sea and airports and then travel by rail and road to North American markets.

Specifically, the report cites immense potential in growing container traffic from emerging economies in Asia.
I detect no sense of irony in this news report. (I think it's needed.) Isn't it a bit jarring when reporters rewrite press releases, especially concerning economic news, and make it clear they have no sense of history? Saint John has a longer history of Asian trade than ANY other Canadian port. Just one example - I wrote an article 25 years ago which described how in 1836 a couple of wine merchants in Saint John decided to shake up the tea trade. They sent a vessel directly to the Chinese treaty port of Canton and on July 1, 1837 had 5000 chests of tea in their S.J. warehouse, blowing away all the other importers of the region who were still waiting for fresh stock to be trans-shipped through British houses.
http://thelostvalley.blogspot.com/
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  #1051  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2007, 8:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ottawa View Post
Daring to Dream Big

Saint John has major choices to make about the future of its city centre


"There should be some debate on it," said Jim Baird, the city's commissioner of planning and development. "What do people want their community to look like?"

Baird, who spoke at length with the Telegraph-Journal in two recent interviews, says it's time for the public and common council to make some big choices about the future of the south-central peninsula. Should the city focus entirely on low-level infill, or should it be open to high-rise buildings that could change the character of the neighbourhood? "
Saint John is no different than every other port city I could name. Real estate developers are always salivating over water frontage with "million dollar views". The question is, do you give in to them? Condo towers don't employ people - they just alter the skyline in dramatic, often quite unanticipated ways. Sooner or later S.J. Council will give in to an influential financier with a plan for a highrise residential tower and that new structure will become the signature landmark for the whole waterfront. The entire history of the port and the remaining heritage streets of the downtown will lay in its shadow, diminished.

Here in Vancouver the condo towers on the waterfront are as thick as hairs on a dog's back, but for the last ten years business has been fleeing the downtown. The number of registered and taxable businesses goes down, year after year. We have a reverse-flush meeting the incoming commuters... yuppies leaving the downtown every day for jobs in suburban business parks. (The new Microsoft facility is going to Richmond, but no doubt its Web Address will say "Vancouver".) You would be surprised how many "Vancouver" businesses, aren't physically in Vancouver.
When I do get back to S.J. for a visit it certainly won't be to compare your new development with ours. My fondest wish is that S.J. retain those assets which make it unique, and most of it is hertage streetscapes and the many natural outcroppings which allow the city to look at itself from so many different angles.
http://thelostvalley.blogspot.com/
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  #1052  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2007, 9:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Jack View Post
Saint John is no different than every other port city I could name. Real estate developers are always salivating over water frontage with "million dollar views". The question is, do you give in to them? Condo towers don't employ people - they just alter the skyline in dramatic, often quite unanticipated ways. Sooner or later S.J. Council will give in to an influential financier with a plan for a highrise residential tower and that new structure will become the signature landmark for the whole waterfront. The entire history of the port and the remaining heritage streets of the downtown will lay in its shadow, diminished.

http://thelostvalley.blogspot.com/
I totally agree; I think the city and its citizens are at a crucial crossroads in terms of responsible development - because something *Can* be built doesnt necessarily mean it *Should* be. Careful planning - looking at short and long term benefits *and* downsides - is key. We need to preserve what makes us unique (for example, heritage areas uptown) while at the same time promoting vibrant & forward- thinking development that complements the assets that we do have. I think often of the Hardman Group's $75-mill. proposed development of Coast Guard site(http://www.hardmangroup.ca/developme...astguard.html), and although it's not exactly what I'd envison for the area, I do respect the fact that this proposal embraces development / diversity in terms of combining commercial, residential & public use.
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  #1053  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2007, 2:37 AM
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Quote:
"Success means greater prosperity for Atlantic Canada through a more robust presence and increased participation in international commerce."

According to the study, the economic boost of the gateway could, by 2025, produce 61,100 new jobs, $2.1 billion in wages and $3.4 billion in GDP growth.

Yet most indicators, from the focus of MacKay's speech to the opinion of local regional development experts, points to Nova Scotia, and specifically Halifax, as having the most to gain in direct benefits.

"New Brunswick is very much a secondary (area). That's the message that has to get out here," said Charles Cirtwill, acting president of the Atlantic Institute for Market Studies, a Halifax-based think-tank, following the announcement.

"This isn't a question of does the main gateway go to the port of Saint John, because it simply will never happen," Cirtwill said of Halifax's all-but-declared status as the main peg.

New Brunswick, he predicted, will be the beneficiary mainly of indirect spin-offs, particularly as goods make their way over land - to and from the Nova Scotia capital.

The role of Saint John, the province's largest seaport, is still to be defined. But the report lists it as key to container traffic and boosting the number of cruise ships that visit the area.

Is anyone else routinely annoyed by every statement that comes out of the Atlantic Institute of Market Studies?
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  #1054  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2007, 2:54 AM
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Is anyone else routinely annoyed by every statement that comes out of the Atlantic Institute of Market Studies?


Yes.
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  #1055  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2007, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Jack View Post
Saint John is no different than every other port city I could name. Real estate developers are always salivating over water frontage with "million dollar views". The question is, do you give in to them? Condo towers don't employ people - they just alter the skyline in dramatic, often quite unanticipated ways. Sooner or later S.J. Council will give in to an influential financier with a plan for a highrise residential tower and that new structure will become the signature landmark for the whole waterfront. The entire history of the port and the remaining heritage streets of the downtown will lay in its shadow, diminished.

Here in Vancouver the condo towers on the waterfront are as thick as hairs on a dog's back, but for the last ten years business has been fleeing the downtown. The number of registered and taxable businesses goes down, year after year. We have a reverse-flush meeting the incoming commuters... yuppies leaving the downtown every day for jobs in suburban business parks. (The new Microsoft facility is going to Richmond, but no doubt its Web Address will say "Vancouver".) You would be surprised how many "Vancouver" businesses, aren't physically in Vancouver.
When I do get back to S.J. for a visit it certainly won't be to compare your new development with ours. My fondest wish is that S.J. retain those assets which make it unique, and most of it is hertage streetscapes and the many natural outcroppings which allow the city to look at itself from so many different angles.
http://thelostvalley.blogspot.com/
I am all for retaining our heritage which is some of the best in Canada. We need to work on our uptown and south end's infastructure but we also need to promotoe growth and in a lot of places we need to go up. To keep business's from going to the suburbs which I also consider the east side. We need better office space and more up to date office space, You cant attract microsoft to the uptown core and increasing the money spent if you cant provide them with a little break finiancialy for building there, granted we are not Vancouver and are light years away from there. We still need to concentrate our efforts towards anti-suburbanism. Business won't stay if you dont promote change, Centerbeam is a perfect example we retained our heritage and improved our infastructure while bringing new business in. But what we need is businesses at a larger scale small stores cannot provide and economy for an entire city. A signature tower would never be a bad idea Our city streets will never be lost( Trinty Blocks)and our sense of history will not be either but we need to show other people that we can move forward and not move out like every city has in North America. Growth will not come to a stagnant city only recession, you can't keep younger generations here if we can't show them we are in it for the long run as a city not just here for each individuals best interest.
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  #1056  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2007, 5:08 PM
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We have to retain the heritage, while renewing the run-down. Although I get a good feeling when I walk in one of the nice heritage areas, I also get a good feeling when I see a rotted out, boarded up building replaced with something that fits. Property values go up when a rotting slum is torn down and replaced with new construction, the increased value prompting people in the neighborhood to upgrade and maintain their property. But there needs to be a momentum before that sort of things sticks. I think a height restriction on new in-fill in residential areas would work, and some incentives to do something similar to Centerbeam would be great. I've often thought there should be a bunch of loft-style apartments in some of the buildings downtown.

There are likely to be private developments along the water, which is ok as long as they facilitate public access. I expect we'll be able to stay away from the high-rise condos though, just not sure I see the market for them here at this point.
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  #1057  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2007, 5:44 PM
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Strescon begins construction on new headquarters
October 09, 2007

Saint John - Saint John will soon be home to new corporate headquarters.

Strescon will be turning the sod on their new office building on Ashburn Lake Road this morning.

The company, which employs close to 250 Saint Johner's, says the building will be an impressive, one-of-a-kind showpiece.

A number of local politicians will be on hand, including M-P Paul Zed, M-L-A Roly Macintyre and Mayor Norm McFarlane.

Construction is expected to be complete next spring.

link to what the building will look like

http://www.fcc-engineering.com/news.aspx
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  #1058  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2007, 6:15 PM
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This is another example of a business continually moving out east. We need to bring business uptown. I know it would be cheaper for them because they own the land but we could lure them uptown with a tax abatement which many larger cities due to attract business to their core.

http://www.oscoconstructiongroup.com/2414.aspx

Here is also the link the New wallboard Factory.
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  #1059  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2007, 7:00 PM
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Location: Uptown, Saint John
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Yeah the East side has been getting everything lately, I'm sick of it. Uptown needs an injection of office space - the Irving tower is the only bright spot on the horizon right now. I understand Jim Baird's argument, but I think Uptown can sustain in-fill and taller structures. What's so damaging about making an in-fill building tall? Just because you build a 8-storey building where a parking lot used to be, doesn't mean that the heritage structures next to it won't matter, if anything it will raise their profile. Sure we have some historic streetscapes that should be preserved (like Prince William), but what about all the other areas of Uptown that have large empty lots or crooked wooden homes with boarded-up windows? Why not plunk a couple tall office/residential towers in if the investment is there? Surely that is preferable than the alternative: building out East. The more people you bring Uptown, the easier it will be to preserve the heritage buildings, because people will begin to make them part of their lives, and not want to give them up. We're not talking about 30 storey buildings that will cast massive shadows and cause wind storms, just a few 8-12 floor buildings to increase density in the Uptown core.
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Old Posted Oct 9, 2007, 9:10 PM
thefishingnut thefishingnut is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Quispamsis, NB
Posts: 254
If I owed Strescon, I'd certainly want my head office next to the plant. Showcase your products in your head office, and potential customers can see them being manufactured if they wish. Want a meeting with the supervisors, they walk across the yard. Head office next to the plant keeps everybody grounded on what their product is. The amount of money they'll save on the lot is not likely significant, but the value of having everything together will be high.

This building will be a nice addition from the highway and for the new intersection. Put yourself into the eyes of a business visitor coming from the airport to Saint John - they're not going to be very impressed, and this will help.
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