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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2010, 10:55 PM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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My argument like I said is not based on crime statistics. I obviously know that Phoenix is one of the more dangerous cities in the US, but it is about feeling. Montreal feels like the hood. I walked up and down St. Laurent which I was told is one of the more vibrant areas, and it was extremely run down.

I understand you all are defensive when someone says something about your city, but I think you are taking it out of context, or I explained it poorly.

This:


Looks like some scumbucket eastern european street corner. Trash on the street, wooden telephone poles, clutter on balconies (at least its not clothes hanging to dry), graffiti, busted up streets and sidewalks, etc. I won't even go into how frightening those alley ways look.

As opposed to this, which has intact streets and sidewalks, no clutter, no trash, everything clean and nice.
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2010, 11:14 PM
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I think the problem here is that you got on a plane for a few hours, got off, and expected everything to look like Phoenix.

Is anybody even using that little train?
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2010, 11:20 PM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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I actually drove there and spent two days but whatever. Yes, 55,000 a day use that "little train" which is quite impressive seeing as it is only one line thus far.

Last edited by Vicelord John; Apr 11, 2010 at 2:15 AM.
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 12:10 AM
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Funny, my father went to a congress in Phoenix and someone has been stabbed several times just in front of his hotel. He told me downtown was small, nobody in the streets except bums, homeless people and boring as hell..
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 12:31 AM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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Originally Posted by PhilippeMtl View Post
Funny, my father went to a congress in Phoenix and someone has been stabbed several times just in front of his hotel. He told me downtown was small, nobody in the streets except bums, homeless people and boring as hell..
hmmm... I've lived in the center of downtown phoenix for a few years. I've never heard of any crime issues except for the two stabbings in front of the Wyndham, and one gun crime with a couple of gang members who left a club. I actually was working at the Wyndham when that happened, it was a female flight attendant who was standing next to an alley counting her money in her purse and talking on the cell phone. She was begging for it and I don't think it matters what city you are in that is likely to happen to her. I do not feel unsafe walking around at 2am piss drunk by myself and have never even had a verbal confrontation except for ones I've initiated.

However, in Montreal, all I saw were crazy youth hostel looking people with colored hair and tattered clothes. Those ones scare me more than the bums because they look actually fit enough to fight or chase. There was graffiti everywhere which means lots of gang activity.
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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
There was graffiti everywhere which means lots of gang activity.

There's a huge difference between gang graffiti and the type that dominates Montreal. It's really not hard to distinguish between the two.
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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 1:03 AM
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There's really no point in continuing this debate. It's obvious that Vicelord prefers the new and clean look of a sunbelt city to an almost 400 year old eastern industrial city and even though most disagree, I don't think anyone will change his/her mind.

While some of those assertions were harsh, I think Vicelord made it clear it was just anecdotal experience. While it's fair to explain what may be misconceptions on the part of Vicelord (like the fact that despite the graffiti and offensive looking people Montreal has a very low crime rate for a large north american city) you won't change a determined mind.
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 1:05 AM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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Originally Posted by mike474 View Post
There's really no point in continuing this debate. It's obvious that Vicelord prefers the new and clean look of a sunbelt city to an almost 400 year old eastern industrial city and even though most disagree, I don't think anyone will change his/her mind.

While some of those assertions were harsh, I think Vicelord made it clear it was just anecdotal experience. While it's fair to explain what may be misconceptions on the part of Vicelord (like the fact that despite the graffiti and offensive looking people Montreal has a very low crime rate for a large north american city) you won't change a determined mind.


I like you, you're rational.
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 2:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
I like you, you're rational.
Is it ironic then that I'm moving to Montreal in a few months and there's a good chance I might live in that very neighbourhood? Is that rational?
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 2:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
There was graffiti everywhere which means lots of gang activity.
Thanks for making me laugh. I understand where you're coming from, but I guess a bit of graffiti and detritus here and there don't make easterners that squeamish. BTW--what's wrong with hanging your laundry out to dry?

For what it's worth, Montreal has an exceptionally low crime rate for a city of this size, and we are about as far from having a "gang problem" as you get in the Americas*--if you come back, you really have nothing to worry about. You can wander around virtually any part of town in the wee hours without a problem--i've been doing it for 10 years and haven't even *seen* anything more than a drunken brawl.

*With the Mafia and Hell's Angels being important exceptions--but problems pretty far removed from the inhabitants of la belle ville.
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 2:14 AM
Vicelord John Vicelord John is offline
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Originally Posted by NYaMtl View Post
Thanks for making me laugh. I understand where you're coming from, but I guess a bit of graffiti and detritus here and there don't make easterners that squeamish. BTW--what's wrong with hanging your laundry out to dry?
Well, I'm sorry, I associate graffiti with no good. It's not pretty. And hanging laundry out to dry in places in view to the public is hood behavior.
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 2:27 AM
NYaMtl NYaMtl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
I understand you all are defensive when someone says something about your city, but I think you are taking it out of context, or I explained it poorly.

This:


Looks like some scumbucket eastern european street corner. Trash on the street, wooden telephone poles, clutter on balconies (at least its not clothes hanging to dry), graffiti, busted up streets and sidewalks, etc. I won't even go into how frightening those alley ways look.

As opposed to this, which has intact streets and sidewalks, no clutter, no trash, everything clean and nice.
We're taking it out of context? You're comparing a recently renovated part of downtown Phoenix to a random street corner in one of the outer parts of Montreal? Did you even go to downtown Montreal, or did you wander only around St. Laurent?

Hey, look!



Intact streets and sidewalks, no clutter, no trash, everything clean and nice. (and, ahem, no parking lots, overhead wires, or billboards in this one!)

We're getting defensive only because you've made some pretty ridiculous generalizations. Yes, parts of Montréal are trashy, even run-down in parts. But the city is consistently vibrant and has neighborhoods that stand out next to almost any other city on the continent. There are many parts of the core that are clean and have excellent infrastructure, along with world class architecture...etc. etc. Even its trashy neighborhoods have more street life than 90% of the urban sunbelt, and that's something we are proud of.
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 2:37 AM
NYaMtl NYaMtl is offline
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Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
I actually drove there and spent two days but whatever. Yes, 55,000 a day use that "little train" which is quite impressive seeing as it is only one line thus far.
It's not that impressive to a city that's smaller than yours but with four train lines used by 989,000 a day.
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 4:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicelord John View Post
My argument like I said is not based on crime statistics. I obviously know that Phoenix is one of the more dangerous cities in the US, but it is about feeling. Montreal feels like the hood. I walked up and down St. Laurent which I was told is one of the more vibrant areas, and it was extremely run down.

I understand you all are defensive when someone says something about your city, but I think you are taking it out of context, or I explained it poorly.

This:


Looks like some scumbucket eastern european street corner. Trash on the street, wooden telephone poles, clutter on balconies (at least its not clothes hanging to dry), graffiti, busted up streets and sidewalks, etc. I won't even go into how frightening those alley ways look.

As opposed to this, which has intact streets and sidewalks, no clutter, no trash, everything clean and nice.

If you honestly believe that PHX > Montreal, you shouldn't even be a member of this forum.

Look how friggin' sterile that second picture is! That's a disgrace to urbanity.
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 5:09 AM
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The East end of downtown Montreal is definitely trashy, covered with graffitis and full of punks and weirdos and I understand how a stranger can feel unsafe in such a context. Hopefully things will change with Quartier des spectacles because I hate this place and I feel embarrassed when I walk there. But Montreal is definitely not a dangerous city, I walk in those areas all the time late at night, sometimes with my 2000$-worth camera, and never ran into trouble. This is a sterile debate, because as someone said you can't compare a 400 years-old industrial city to a sunbelt city.
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 5:51 AM
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Originally Posted by le calmar View Post
covered with graffitis and full of punks and weirdos
And this is exactly why Montreal is so great (well, its not all there is to it, of course). The worst thing that could happen to the city is for it to be turned into some sort of sterile, urban Disneyland to make it palatable for the visits of fearful suburbanites like Vicelord John.
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 6:41 AM
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Forgive me, but I'm going to change the topic at hand. When was the plateau developed? Obviously that's a complicated question, but would anyone know when the rowhouses around Square St. Louis were built for instance?
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 8:22 AM
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Forgive me, but I'm going to change the topic at hand. When was the plateau developed? Obviously that's a complicated question, but would anyone know when the rowhouses around Square St. Louis were built for instance?
I know the park at st louis square was built in 1879, so I guess construction on the homes started about that time. The area actually used to be a water reservoir before being converted into a park.
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  #79  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 10:35 AM
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It's a good thing Vicelord didn't wander into Kensington Market while he was in Toronto or his head would have exploded.
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  #80  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2010, 4:51 PM
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there is a certain subset of suburban and western north americans who equate aging brick, row housing and urban density with "the hood," or "the ghetto," even though some of world's wealthiest neighbourhoods (including london's mayfair, which makes anything in phoenix, arizona look kind of trashy) are built in this way.

it's a bit of a weird thing to find one on ssp though.
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