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  #1521  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2018, 3:04 PM
The Bess The Bess is offline
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  #1522  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2018, 4:09 PM
prairieguy prairieguy is offline
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I so remember that plebiscite and there was very organised and vocal group that put an incredible "fear of traffic and parking" campaign on against the downtown location. The downtown option did have some momentum early, but the 'fear mongering" of the dreaded..."where will we park" and "so much traffic"...won over the population (even though less then 30% actually cast a ballot).

It is so strange to still hear the same objections now over the downtown proposal...parking and traffic. I think very good arguments have been put forward about the many access and exits points into downtown; patrons would be arriving and leaving at different times; need for organised public transit points; incredible boost to commercial activity in downtown core.

Working models exist in most major north american cities....so let's get it right this time. I may be dead....or too old...to go to a new downtown centre, but I am fine with my taxes going towards building something for future generations!
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  #1523  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2018, 5:54 AM
nook nook is offline
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Well if they would've built the damn thing downtown in the first place we wouldn't be talking about a new arena... We'd be saving money and talking about renovations to the existing downtown arena.

I believe it was a trend in the 70s and 80s to build stadiums farther out. I've been to stadiums built in the sticks and those built close to downtowns... The downtown ones have a way, way better vibe.

Expect TIAA Bank Field in Jacksonville. I mean, I'm sure that's a lovely city. But I'm kind of glad we just had a rental car where we parked. It was like parking your car on Retallack Street in Regina for a Rider game.
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  #1524  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2018, 7:15 PM
The Bess The Bess is offline
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CBC will be streaming a discussion of an arena downtown from the Remai Modern tonight at 7:00pm.
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  #1525  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2018, 8:09 PM
prairieguy prairieguy is offline
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Originally Posted by The Bess View Post
CBC will be streaming a discussion of an arena downtown from the Remai Modern tonight at 7:00pm.
Is this a public event...I would love to go!
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  #1526  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2018, 9:13 PM
saskatoonborn saskatoonborn is offline
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Me too. Sadly I work.
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  #1527  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2018, 9:49 PM
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Yeff Yeff is offline
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Originally Posted by nook View Post
Expect TIAA Bank Field in Jacksonville. I mean, I'm sure that's a lovely city. But I'm kind of glad we just had a rental car where we parked. It was like parking your car on Retallack Street in Regina for a Rider game.
Hah! I was recently at a Patriots game in Foxboro ... now THAT is in the middle of nowhere. Missed the train back to Boston, had to walk a few miles and then compete with hundreds of other stranded people for what became a $160 USD Uber ride back to town.

Downtown arenas/stadiums are awesome.
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  #1528  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2018, 11:28 PM
justabusinessstudent justabusinessstudent is offline
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Originally Posted by prairieguy View Post
Is this a public event...I would love to go!
It is public, but you had to reserve tickets for it and those "sales" (it was free) ended. I'll be attending so I can post anything interesting here after if people want!
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  #1529  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2018, 11:40 PM
Brutopian Brutopian is offline
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Tonight CBC Asks: Should Saskatoon build its next arena downtown?

CBC is hosting a panel Tuesday night. Stream the event here starting at 7 p.m. CST

Guy Quenneville · CBC News · Oct 23, 2018

Should Saskatoon build its next multi-purpose arena in the city's downtown core? That's the question CBC Saskatoon will ask during a public event tonight.

The sold-out event, taking place at the Remai Modern Art Museum, comes six months after consultants hired by SaskTel Centre said the 30-year-old its past its prime and in danger of losing out on future concerts.

You can stream the event here starting at 7 p.m. CST.

[........]

Read more:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...asks-1.4872677
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  #1530  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2018, 3:54 AM
justabusinessstudent justabusinessstudent is offline
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Lightbulb CBC Asks: Should Saskatoon Build a Downtown Arena

First of all, the backstory: I was in attendance tonight so I got to sit through the entire event hearing about the panel's preconceived notions. Second: I am of the opinion that CBC could have done a much, much, MUCH better job of selecting panellists. Alan (former city planner in Saskatoon) and Victor (Sports Economist from the US) were fantastic - while I may have not agreed with all of the points they raised, from a purely academic and thought-provoking point of view, they drove this discussion and I appreciated their input. The other two, whose names I'm not even sure about because I couldn't handle them, should have be reconsidered - not to say I didn't agree with their points, but the way they said them and the lack of emotional intelligence (along with lack of caring about the issue) was unforgivable in my mind.

Now to the real meat and potatoes:

It was a decent discussion, but it always did come back to a few major points:
1) Economics (of course, the major one, but I felt as if most were bias in the room already, as usual).
2) Transit/Parking
3) Downtown vibrancy (restaurant/bar/retail)
4) Accessibility - different than Transit/Parking because it was mostly used to refer to those unable to attend events due to financial issues

The Interview
The beginning of the evening began with the moderator (sorry, forget her name - from CBC Radio I believe) interviewing the current CEO of SaskTel Centre. Mr. Lofdahl was funny and relatable (had quite a few good examples which I wish I could recall right now) but in my honest opinion, wasn't a good speaker. Again, that's only my opinion, and I did actually really enjoy his jokes and examples.

The Panel
The panel was... interesting. The beginning discussion on the actual economics behind the arena was grounded in data/facts and minimal emotion, but then the same question was posed to the "community commentator" and "leader of the neighbourhood youth co-op", and while I have no probably with them on the panel, they didn't really add much to the conversation.

The "community commentator (no joke, that's what her title was on the program)" complained that on days where a downtown arena/convention centre isn't being used, that's an extra block or two she would have to walk. I'm not kidding - that's what her contribution was. This is also the same lady who (incorrectly) stated the cost of renovating SaskTel Centre to be $100,000. She seemed to be against it with her introduction speech (which was way too long) on how it won't add much (fair), cause too much traffic (like it's any good right now), and environmental effect. I think she realized what she was trying to argue was wrong halfway through her third point about the emissions and general environmental effect - she started going as if a new arena would be a horrible idea for emissions and I think by looking at the audience she realized that by building something newer might just be a little a little bit more environmentally friendly (okay, a lot) than the old building. Not to mention the people that could bike/walk/bus more to a downtown arena. I didn't put much thought into the rest of her statements throughout the night.

The "neighbourhood youth co-op director (NYCD)" couldn't even be bothered to dress up for a relatively formal event (compared to daily work) where he was being live-streamed and in front of ~100 people in the room. Started the evening out basically saying how he wasn't here to make the discussion about Brown people vs. White People, entitlement, or his life stories, but that's pretty much what he did. I felt like he wanted to get up and have a fistfight with the former Tourism Saskatoon gentleman who was using logic to defend his position about a combined TCU/SaskTel Centre and how that would be more accessible downtown. The NYCD preceded to then talk about entitlement and even the Remai Modern (the venue for tonight's event), calling himself an ass, and also about how he wanted to get into the hotel industry but as a drunk, he didn't fit in (his words, not mine). Also began the night stating he didn't care 30 years ago about the downtown arena debate, nor does he care now. Great choice CBC.

Alan Wallace, who now works for V3 Companies of Canada but previously worked in the city's planning department, was strongly in favour of the downtown arena as he stated it drives economic development downtown, raises property values, allows for better utilization of transit, the feasibility of Bus Rapid Transit (BRT), and just all-around making the city a better place to live and do business. I suppose I was biased in the fact that I believe a downtown arena/convention centre could be a very good thing for our city if done right, but he used quite a bit of fact, logic, and experience to explain his position.

Victor (something, can't recall his last name) is a Sports Economist for a University in the states somewhere (near Boston I want to say). He was interesting and I was glad to see the CBC get someone in academia involved, and he was probably who I resonated with the most. He's not a local, so he didn't completely understand the NIMBYism of the city, nor the past battles with traffic, downtown arenas, etc., but he provided reasoning. He kind of started of the night saying how he was against arenas in cores of cities, especially when supported through tax dollars, because they contribute very little/none at all to economic development of the core, but he did end by saying how this would most definitely be an issue we would need to hold a referendum on. Did say how Saskatoon is definitely a different type of story than previous examples he's used, but nonetheless, was pretty rigid in his facts and studies.

Victor made the case that there would be little enhancement to our economy from relocation, and more just a relocation of the current economic spin-offs.

I really would have liked them to focus more on the ageing arena and the building aspects more than traffic and the downtown arena itself, because I would have talked about how Saskatoon is losing big-name acts and shows because of the state of our arena and convention centres. Mr. Lofdahl even said this implicitly (how we've fallen in the number of shows/attendance over the years) at the beginning but very little (if any at all) was mentioned about this. Mr. Lofdahl did speak to how the economic effects on the city due to the World Juniors ($2 Million economic effects I believe), Garth Brooks ($75 Million I think?) more than showing the return on investment the city has indirectly gained through the current arena.

Just did this off of memory - so I admit my numbers and memory in general from the last two hours may be a little off. Hope that kind of explains how things went on tonight. Benefits will need to be clear to citizens of the city if we want them to vote yes on it.
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  #1531  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2018, 5:38 AM
roryn1 roryn1 is offline
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I picked up the term Nimbies a few months ago from someone in this thread and I think I’m going to stick with that word for a while now lol - especially regarding people who disagree with a downtown arena as if it’s like voting for socialism that could turn into full throttle communism.

Whenever I hear nimbies question a downtown arena I bring these points up - which I think are very relatable to most nimbies.

“You usually drink at the venue when going to a hockey game or a show, so why the hell do you want to bring a vehicle in the first place?”

“If you’re from out of town just stay in one of our ten hotels downtown close to the convention center / arena and u can walk to avoid any traffic”

“I take the bus from a designated area in the burbs and it took 20 minutes plus they dropped me off at the front for $3! Meanwhile you sat in traffic for 90 minutes and parked ten blocks away and lost your car after. While you were looking for your car I had one more drink before getting on the bus home safely with my buds.” (Nimbies like to drink, maybe smoke now too haha)

Also explaining that any destination with 15,000 people going to one event is a pain, but being centralized downtown allows for shorter drives meaning people are on the road less. They don’t understand that argument though as distance is too complex for nimbies.
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  #1532  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2018, 4:55 PM
prairieguy prairieguy is offline
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One point I would like to make, that appears to have been missed is the comment made by the "outside academic" that there would be little to no economic gain with a downtown arena....simply moving the spin off benefits to a new area.

Well....there currently are NO spin off benefits at the current location...very little in amenities that would be utilized by sports or concert enthusiasts. A move to downtown would most definitely have an economic bump as the infrastructure of restaurants and pubs/lounges already exists for a complete 'evening out' experience tied to events at a downtown arena. In fact, I would go so far as to say, it could likely increase the development of more restaurant and pub options downtown.

To say there would be no difference from current location to downtown clearly demonstrated the "outside academics" lack of knowledge of the current location and the services close by,

Last edited by prairieguy; Oct 24, 2018 at 5:20 PM.
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  #1533  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2018, 5:08 PM
YXE YXE is offline
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Originally Posted by prairieguy View Post
One point I would like to make, that appears to have been missed is the comment mad by the "outside academic" that there would be little to no economic gain with a downtown arena....simply moving the spin off benefits to a new area.

Well....there currently are NO spin off benefits at the current location...very little in amenities that would be utilized by sports or concert enthusiasts. A move to downtown would most definitely have an economic bump as the infrastructure of restaurants and pubs/lounges already exists for a complete 'evening out' experience tied to events at a downtown arena. In fact, I would go so far as to say, it could likely increase the development of more restaurant and pub options downtown.

To say there would be no difference from current location to downtown clearly demonstrated the "outside academics" lack of knowledge of the current location and the services close by,

I had the exact same thought when watching live online last night. I was hoping Allan would catch on to that and make that exact point. Overall, I think we need to be happy that the conversation is happening and we seem to be moving in the right direction. Let's remember that the owner of Rush came out and said he would contribute 10% to the project... not a bad start!

I believe someone from the city that they would release something in "a few months" indicating where they're at with this discussion.
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  #1534  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 2:08 AM
The Bess The Bess is offline
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I watched the streamed debate on the downtown arena, and I am also glad that there is discussion happening, but that debate last night was a joke, If I wasn't in Saskatoon I would have thought it was an episode on this hour has 22 minutes. Of course only my humble observation.
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  #1535  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 4:03 AM
hunter12 hunter12 is offline
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Arena Debate

So, a prof from the University of Michigan says the existing arena is "economically obsolete".

https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...n-centre-study

SaskTel Centre’s chief executive officer Will Lofdahl says we want to be competitive. Concerts are becoming more elaborate, exposing further limitations. The roof and trusses are too low etc etc etc..

https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...t-a-crossroads

So the push is on to spend an extra $250million and build new. As much as I would like an arena downtown, my question is this: If the current arena was built downtown (which would have been in the city yards) would there be any discussion about replacing it? If the answer is no, then get on with the renovations.

As far as I can tell, most of the shortcomings can be solved with the exception of the height of the roof and the location. And quite frankly I doubt we lose many events (Will Lofdahl please name just one) because of the roof.

So, as I see it we (the taxpayers) are been asked to spend $250million for a different location. Again, as much as I would love to see an arena downtown I struggle with the cost. I really see one question: Do you want to spend $250million to relocate the arena downtown. I'm sorry for those who want it but my answer right now is a resounding NO because I can not justify the cost just because of the current location is not ideal. You have your work cut out to convince me otherwise.
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  #1536  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 4:32 AM
nook nook is offline
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I will say this... If they go down the downtown route, they need to do it right. They can't just build an arena and then do as little as possible to build up around it like what happened with the Sasktel Centre. The city will need to be actively involved.

I don't mind parking and riding to an event downtown, but transit will need to be greatly improved. And investment from the city will need to be put in before the arena is complete or else it won't really work and it will clog downtown up with traffic.
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  #1537  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 4:35 AM
nook nook is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter12 View Post
So, a prof from the University of Michigan says the existing arena is "economically obsolete".

https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...n-centre-study

SaskTel Centre’s chief executive officer Will Lofdahl says we want to be competitive. Concerts are becoming more elaborate, exposing further limitations. The roof and trusses are too low etc etc etc..

https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...t-a-crossroads

So the push is on to spend an extra $250million and build new. As much as I would like an arena downtown, my question is this: If the current arena was built downtown (which would have been in the city yards) would there be any discussion about replacing it? If the answer is no, then get on with the renovations.

As far as I can tell, most of the shortcomings can be solved with the exception of the height of the roof and the location. And quite frankly I doubt we lose many events (Will Lofdahl please name just one) because of the roof.

So, as I see it we (the taxpayers) are been asked to spend $250million for a different location. Again, as much as I would love to see an arena downtown I struggle with the cost. I really see one question: Do you want to spend $250million to relocate the arena downtown. I'm sorry for those who want it but my answer right now is a resounding NO because I can not justify the cost just because of the current location is not ideal. You have your work cut out to convince me otherwise.
The decision in the 80s to put in where it is is costing us today because no, we wouldn't be having this discussion on replacing a downtown arena. We would be renovating it and the investment would be beneficial. Even now, what point is there in renovating an arena that is still on the edge of the city (30 years later to boot) with nothing around it?

Could've saved 100 million dollars today if the right decision had been made then.
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  #1538  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 2:53 PM
The Bess The Bess is offline
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Yes lets not spend 250 million on a new arena downtown, it's better we spent 250 million on a bridge form suburbs to old arena. So much for Saskatoon the compact city. Maybe we should annex Martinsville and Warman and say that the arena is almost in the center of Saskatoon. I believe that now may not be the time to do it but hell why not plan for it downtown for the future and make the commitment.
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  #1539  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 2:59 PM
roryn1 roryn1 is offline
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1. These arenas make some good money to my knowledge. I think a new arena downtown is our only option. I also think private dollars could shell out half or more of these dollars. It’s not going to be $250million of taxpayer dollars. Fully funding an arena using taxpayer dollars is a bad scheme, and Private will come pick up a large amount of the bill.
2. Why does Regina get a brand new “provincial” stadium and a bypass, and all we get is one measly overpass funded by the provincial government. Elton John chose Saskatoon because we’re the future main city of Saskatchewan. The politicians in Regina need to stop being so biased. I think it’s time someone in the media analyzed where everyone’s taxpayer dollars are going per region. I think Regina is syphoning a large amount of it with this GTH, Bypass, and Stadium.
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  #1540  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2018, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by roryn1 View Post
1. These arenas make some good money to my knowledge. I think a new arena downtown is our only option. I also think private dollars could shell out half or more of these dollars. It’s not going to be $250million of taxpayer dollars. Fully funding an arena using taxpayer dollars is a bad scheme, and Private will come pick up a large amount of the bill.
2. Why does Regina get a brand new “provincial” stadium and a bypass, and all we get is one measly overpass funded by the provincial government. Elton John chose Saskatoon because we’re the future main city of Saskatchewan. The politicians in Regina need to stop being so biased. I think it’s time someone in the media analyzed where everyone’s taxpayer dollars are going per region. I think Regina is syphoning a large amount of it with this GTH, Bypass, and Stadium.
I assure you the Sask Party does not give more to Regina than Saskatoon over time. When you say the "politicians in Regina", I trust you realize that more government MLAs are from Saskatoon than Regina. Mosaic Stadium got no more Provincial funding on a per capita basis than others arenas in places like Moose Jaw and Melville. The vast majority of the cost was paid by the City and the Riders and their fans.

Arenas in Saskatchewan can only make money if they write off virtually all of the capital and financing costs. It is not a good investment for a business. Businesses can have a role with sponsorships and naming rights and such, but they will not own an arena to make money.
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