Business in Winnipeg

[cllew]

Originally Posted by cheswick

Anyone know if they're closing that location? They're building a branch in the skywalk of the new police building but it looks pretty small. At the same time would be weird to continue operating in the exchange when the police have left.

They still need the main branch on on William as it has parking for the members who would go there on their days off or the ones who don't work out of the main station.

It also has the Vault for the safety deposit boxes which there is no space for in the express branch location.

It's interesting on how things sort of repeat themselves as the Postal Workers credit union was on the west end of the 2nd floor years ago (50+) before they moved on to Garry St behind Cargill Bldg then then eventually merged with Assisbonine CU.

I remember going to that CU with my mother and then us meeting my father in the 2nd floor cafeteria for lunch as his postal route included the 266 Graham post office tower.

[DowntownBooster]

Portage Place lost 2 more tenants. Quarks is closing and H'Attitude is now empty. It is a sad state of affairs looking at that mall as it is today and remembering what it originally looked like when it first opened. Even the fountain hasn't been working for a number of weeks now. I thought that things would have improved for Portage Place once the Manitoba Hydro building opened across the street a few years back but even that didn't seem to help.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

Portage Place lost 2 more tenants. Quarks is closing and H'Attitude is now empty. It is a sad state of affairs looking at that mall as it is today and remembering what it originally looked like when it first opened. Even the fountain hasn't been working for a number of weeks now. I thought that things would have improved for Portage Place once the Manitoba Hydro building opened across the street a few years back but even that didn't seem to help.

Manitoba Hydro Place has been around for about a decade and Portage Place, as a mall at least, has declined since then. It is really not much more than a local community service centre now, much like you'd see in any nondescript suburban strip mall. Dollarama, medical clinic, cellphone shop, random import gift shops, etc. The days of chain specialty retail are pretty much over.

It's funny, Portage Place is directly connected to the biggest office tower in the city (Hydro), the HQ of a major government department (Health), an office tower housing the head office of a big publicly listed corporation (IG), and a whack of apartment towers. On paper it looks like it would work. Yet the mall portion of Portage Place has withered up to the point where it's now roughly on par with The Courts of St. James.

[hexrae]

Originally Posted by esquire

Manitoba Hydro Place has been around for about a decade and Portage Place, as a mall at least, has declined since then. It is really not much more than a local community service centre now, much like you'd see in any nondescript suburban strip mall. Dollarama, medical clinic, cellphone shop, random import gift shops, etc. The days of chain specialty retail are pretty much over.

It's funny, Portage Place is directly connected to the biggest office tower in the city (Hydro), the HQ of a major government department (Health), an office tower housing the head office of a big publicly listed corporation (IG), and a whack of apartment towers. On paper it looks like it would work. Yet the mall portion of Portage Place has withered up to the point where it's now roughly on par with The Courts of St. James.

[Biff]

Can anyone name one improvement or upgrade that has been made to Portage Place since it opened in 1987.

I cant, and that is why they have lost all their tenants and customers. Polo, St V and KP have all have multiple reno's in the last 30 years.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

The drug dealing doesn't help much either. It's pretty rampant in and behind that mall.

[CoryB]

When Portage Place first opened it attempted to really hide how the offices and mall were connected, ie the hallway lobby to the offices wasn't obvious and now it is always open.

They also eliminated the western most end of the main floor and got rid of their second floor anchor and most of the third floor...

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

The drug dealing doesn't help much either. It's pretty rampant in and behind that mall.

There's drug dealing at every mall here. That's not what keeps retailers away.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Biff

Can anyone name one improvement or upgrade that has been made to Portage Place since it opened in 1987.

I cant, and that is why they have lost all their tenants and customers. Polo, St V and KP have all have multiple reno's in the last 30 years.

An astute local blogger pointed out a few years back that is more an effect than a cause of the situation. Portage Place simply doesn't bring in the money to justify a renovation.

Lots of detail on that here... these posts were from 5-10 years ago, the mall component has gone even more downhill since: https://theviewfromseven.wordpress.c...portage-place/

I know downtown Winnipeg is never going to be a major retail hub again but I do find it kind of baffling that all 3 major downtown malls have withered up to being nothing more than a collection of community strip malls.

I have a hard time making it out to the malls... surely I can't be alone among downtown workers/residents in that regard. Most of my gift buying for family and friends happens downtown, but it seems as though the small collection of shops and boutiques that I can find suitable things in is declining every year. You'd think there would be at least some critical mass, at least one mall with a decent little collection of shops to serve the tens of thousands of people living, working and visiting downtown each day.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by buzzg

There's drug dealing at every mall here. That's not what keeps retailers away.

Not like Portage Place. Not going to say why I know this but it's pill central down there.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by esquire

An astute local blogger pointed out a few years back that is more an effect than a cause of the situation. Portage Place simply doesn't bring in the money to justify a renovation.

I guess for me it is a bit of a chicken and egg thing here - spend money to make money. If the mall made consistent renovations maybe the retailers would have stayed (i understand not all of them) - if more retailers stayed maybe the mall could afford more elaborate renovations.

I just feel the complete lack on any upgrades at all over 30 years helped in losing most of the customers and retailers.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Not like Portage Place. Not going to say why I know this but it's pill central down there.

Is downtown basically a lost cause as a result of this?

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by DowntownBooster

Is downtown basically a lost cause as a result of this?

Definitely not. Portage Place just has a really big problem. You make a good point though. If Portage Place was suddenly not there it would just move the problem somewhere else.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

You'd think there would be at least some critical mass, at least one mall with a decent little collection of shops to serve the tens of thousands of people living, working and visiting downtown each day.

It is called Amazon.

Online is killing retail, not just downtown, not just in Winnipeg, but globally. The pressure on once viable malls is extreme now.

..

The challenges with Portage Place are a fair bit deeper though. It was a mall built without anchors in a time that was unheard of and targeting a demo that was a pipedream at the time. I still recall the marketing for Place Promenade, that residential component behind Portage Place, making it seem like a place for young business professionals to live.

The market demographic never really materialized, the mall management company, Cadillac Fairview, also went through bankruptcy seven years after the mall opened. By then it was clear Portage Place would never live up to the vision it was sold on and they walked away. Since then the property has largely been adrift in the market bouncing between different owners.

Another challenge the mall has faced over the years is they have no control over the profitable parking on site. They don't make anymore money from it and can't use it to lure in tenants either. It is sort of like how Jets 1.0 didn't really make any money off the concessions, parking, etc at Winnipeg Arena.

Lots of mistakes were made with Portage Place and the building should be a giant warning beacon to anyone foolish enough to think a live-work-play development downtown is a wise investment. It's been tried twice and had poor results both times. It seems unlikely a third attempt will have long term success in changing that.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It is called Amazon.

Online is killing retail, not just downtown, not just in Winnipeg, but globally. The pressure on once viable malls is extreme now.

..

The challenges with Portage Place are a fair bit deeper though. It was a mall built without anchors in a time that was unheard of and targeting a demo that was a pipedream at the time. I still recall the marketing for Place Promenade, that residential component behind Portage Place, making it seem like a place for young business professionals to live.

The market demographic never really materialized, the mall management company, Cadillac Fairview, also went through bankruptcy seven years after the mall opened. By then it was clear Portage Place would never live up to the vision it was sold on and they walked away. Since then the property has largely been adrift in the market bouncing between different owners.

Another challenge the mall has faced over the years is they have no control over the profitable parking on site. They don't make anymore money from it and can't use it to lure in tenants either. It is sort of like how Jets 1.0 didn't really make any money off the concessions, parking, etc at Winnipeg Arena.

Lots of mistakes were made with Portage Place and the building should be a giant warning beacon to anyone foolish enough to think a live-work-play development downtown is a wise investment. It's been tried twice and had poor results both times. It seems unlikely a third attempt will have long term success in changing that.

Except the "live" part of it never actually happened. I'm still optimistic that the whole thing can be salvaged but it certainly won't happen until the area immediately north begins to improve and more people with deeper ish pockets start living not only downtown but in the environs of the mall. Unlikely for the near term but not impossible in the long term. If Winnipeg got to a point where there was pent up demand to live downtown then I'm certain the mall would rejuvenate.

On a slightly different note it would really have helped if there was proper rapid transit into downtown.

[esquire]

I will say that PP had anchors when it first opened... the downtown Eatons and The Bay stores were about as big as anchors got in this town. I grant that having to dogleg north to the mall was not ideal, but the anchors were there.

IMO the decline happened long before online shopping... and people are still willing to spend in malls. For instance, when I need a last minute gift for my wife's birthday because I procrastinated, Amazon is not really a great option.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It is called Amazon.
I still recall the marketing for Place Promenade, that residential component behind Portage Place, making it seem like a place for young business professionals to live.

I checked the place out at the time. I was working above Eaton Place, and there was a lot of appeal to being able to walk to work through the skywalks without going outside in the winter.

As it turned out, the skywalks weren't open early enough in the morning to do that. And where Place Promenade gave a view only of another close highrise, Fort Garry Place (which opened around same time) gave me an uninterrupted view to the east overlooking The Forks. Fort Garry Place also killed Place Promenade on amenities, while still being cheaper. And who doesn't love cement statues?

[buzzg]

If we start seeing more and more residential towers going up in downtown proper, we could reach a critical mass – but it will be of the utmost importance for the city and BIZ to decide where they want to prioritize for retail destinations. There's no way Graham, Portage, Portage Place, cityplace, Fort/Garry will all thrive, so they need to pick their battles and have a focused effort.

Personally I would focus on Graham first, then using Garry as a good connection into the Exchange. Within Portage Place, focus retail on the main floor and services to second. Hopefully one day reopen Portage-facing shops to the street.

[DowntownBooster]

It's a shame we never got to see the Canwest Communications Media Centre come to fruition. It would have been great for Portage and Main and for our city as home to Canada's largest media company. Had Izzy Asper not passed away in 2003, it wouldn't surprise me if he would have found a way to have kept Canwest from going bankrupt.

[esquire]

Izzy Asper, the heaviest hitter of them all in Winnipeg business. He was one of a kind. In hindsight it's not terribly surprising that it all fell apart after his death.



In other former Winnipeg broadcasting mogul news, I recently saw an ad in the Freep lauding Randy Moffat for donating another $50 million to the Winnipeg Foundation, on top of his $100 million donation back in 2001.