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  #2081  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2011, 7:20 PM
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One more, since everyone loved the last one.
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  #2082  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2011, 7:50 PM
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Originally Posted by The Grand Architect View Post
Hardly the case. Tower 1 was meant to be the main tower of the complex. I don't think it's fair to have any tower exceed Tower 1 or be near it. (Exception is Tower 2). The other towers are perfectly fine considering their current height.
Wel if tower 3 got chopped 100+ feet the same most likely will happen to tower 2 AKA the complex is going to look freaking dumb. STR is probably right I know he's smart and all but I truly hope it isn't the case... The whole complex is already so much less powerful looking than the original twins that we can't afford to lose anymore height on any of the buildings, they'll just be squat boxes, how on earth is everyone satisfied with that?
     
     
  #2083  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2011, 8:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan
Well if tower 3 got chopped 100+ feet the same most likely will happen to tower 2 AKA the complex is going to look freaking dumb.
It's highly unlikely the tower (or any WTC tower) will get chopped down that much. I mean, the first New WTC design consisted of the Freedom Tower and 3 other "block-like" buildings.



And then years later, they moved on to the current design, which added numerous floors to the proposed 2,3,4 WTC.



Now they are deducting floors from the 3WTC as well as the X bracing. It seems like they are trying to cut back on a few things. And as you said, they're making it look like they are going back to "squat boxes", but it wouldn't be fair to give up on this design that the public wanted so badly. Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan
The whole complex is already so much less powerful looking than the original twins that we can't afford to lose anymore height on any of the buildings, they'll just be squat boxes, how on earth is everyone satisfied with that?
Can we just be patient and wait for the towers to be finished? I bet when it is, you (and the others) won't be complaining. Trust me. I mean, look at the former 4, 5 and 6 WTC. They are practically 9 story buildings. We are lucky to have any building more than that height, even if they are "squat boxes".
     
     
  #2084  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2011, 9:03 PM
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They'll chop down 2WTC s height for the same reason they chopped down 3WTCs height, to cut costs. I'm not going to be surprised if we end up with tower 1and 2 far shorter buildings.

I don't care if the original 3,4,5 WTC were 9 story buildings because there were 2 1365 foot monsters on the site. The new tower 1 is really only 1100 feet high because of where the occupied space stops (plus it's slanted which makes it much weaker looking) and the other towers much less so. New york had the chance to make something great and blew it completely, that's not really ok.

Maybe the final product will look better than expected but I'm not really expecting anything greater than the twin towers



There could be a shred of hope left though, if you read the WTC site it still mentions and external structural steel frame, Maybe that rendering was just incorrect, like so many others that have been posted.




"The tower will consist of a central concrete core - steel encased in reinforced concrete — and be clad in an external structural steel frame. Safety systems are planned to exceed New York City building code and Port Authority of New York and New Jersey requirements. Designed to the highest energy efficiency ratings, 3 World Trade Center will seek to achieve the gold standard under the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) by the U.S. Green Building Council."
     
     
  #2085  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2011, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
I don't care if the original 3,4,5 WTC were 9 story buildings because there were 2 1365 foot monsters on the site. The new tower 1 is really only 1100 feet high because of where the occupied space stops (plus it's slanted which makes it much weaker looking) and the other towers much less so. New york had the chance to make something great and blew it completely, that's not really ok.

Maybe the final product will look better than expected but I'm not really expecting anything greater than the twin towers
We're drifting to the discussion of "New WTC vs. Old WTC". Let's not go there. That discussion shall end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan
They'll chop down 2WTC s height for the same reason they chopped down 3WTCs height, to cut costs. I'm not going to be surprised if we end up with tower 1and 2 far shorter buildings.
You're basically jumping to conclusions here. If they are going to chop down the height, it would be no more than 3 or 4 max (I'm hoping). It wouldn't make the tower any lower if viewed from a distance or up close, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan
There could be a shred of hope left though, if you read the WTC site it still mentions and external structural steel frame, Maybe that rendering was just incorrect, like so many others that have been posted.

"The tower will consist of a central concrete core - steel encased in reinforced concrete — and be clad in an external structural steel frame.
Just because the site mentions an external structural steel frame doesn't necessarily mean it's an X bracing. There could be a whole lot of things that could apply to the steel frame.

For example, if you take a look at STR's rendering, you can see on the North and South side that there are 4 vertical columns running up and down. I'm 95% sure that's the "external structural steel frame".
     
     
  #2086  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 1:50 AM
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by STR View Post
Refined a few of the lower floors. Result was a drop in roof height by another 12 feet, putting it at 1042', with fins at 1073. Pretty much done with overall size alterations. I only have the lobby and retail levels left.





Given that no one noticed it (despite dozens of renders) until I pointed it out, I'd say "extremely crooked" is hyperbole.
That's just it, tho....until *you pointed it out*, nobody could say anything. All the head-on and three-quarter profile imagery couldn't help me in that regard. Matter of fact, on second glances, running my eyes along the top X brace revealed to me exactly what you're talking about...but as I mentioned above, in a way almost unnoticeable by most.
My choice of words was solely based on that one x-brace render you made. Hyperbole, you say? Within the aforecited context alone, I respectfully adhere to my choice of words.
     
     
  #2087  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 2:29 AM
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^Fair enough. BTW, look at the bottom most X in post 2081, more fun and hyperbole there.

A "big picture" perspective.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
They'll chop down 2WTC s height for the same reason they chopped down 3WTCs height, to cut costs. I'm not going to be surprised if we end up with tower 1and 2 far shorter buildings.
It's 2 superfluous mechanical floors and an office floor that got redistributed via wider floor plates, yielding a measly 6% reduction in height, while maintaining the same 2.4Msqft of office and retail space. No need to have a panic attack. The choice here was either 1170, or 0 feet. 1240 was just not an option in this kind of economy.
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Last edited by STR; Jul 25, 2011 at 3:01 AM.
     
     
  #2088  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 2:40 AM
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Now prove my point to Zapatan by showing your previous render before the floor cut to show that the height hasn't changed much when viewed from the same angle.
     
     
  #2089  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 2:48 AM
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I thought you had your own model now? :p
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  #2090  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 3:51 AM
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Hey STR. Since Two World Trade Center has been shortened in height would the Manhattan and Brooklyn Bridges be visible from the observation deck of One World Trade Center?
     
     
  #2091  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 4:40 AM
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@STR:

Thank you for being a good sport about all this...and yes, the bottom X is indeed asymmetrical, most likely due to the three-fold facade treatment. Your west-facing pano treatment shows me that the zig-zags form somewhat of a visual continuum between them and 200G's gradient from that vantage point. The west-facing mockup shows a similar visual continuum, albeit harder to see at first
Now...
Am I crazy, or do I see the illusion of 200G as showing major bulkage from the east? The Hudson views always show a decidedly sleeker tower. It's very much akin to how BofA changes dimension radically according to vantage point, with--as with 200G--East and West views also showing a remarkably slender side.

Back to 175G, wonderful renders and no complaints from me whatsoever about height manipulation. The cleaner facade should help convince some of us that all the towers now seem more architecturally cohesive than ever.

My theory of the WTC visual continuum:
150G: Elegant, minimalist design hearkens to the Japanese virtues of simplicity and serenity. Maki-san creates a truly ephemeral tribute to Yamasaki-san's original monoliths.
175G: Smoother facade treatment continues, though slightly more detailed. This, together with Z bracing and fins create an ethereal, Gothamesque impression, culminating in the unique quadruple spires.
200G: Shows visual aspects whose extreme subtleness and geometric complexity flaunt an architectural symbiosis of which few other skyscrapers worldwide can boast. Both the fourfold and (now curtailed) angular motifs from 175G are complemented in full by the shape of the diamonds, whose seemingly asymmetrical juxtapositionings(?) are due to the building's hexagonal shape. The deliberately understated pinnacle is a halfway-unenclosed diamond that almost melds with the sky.
1WTC: Culmination and focal point of the complex and intricate in its own right, especially regarding the spire, whose dual purpose as a communications system and an unmistakable skyline beacon is aestheticized by an outer "shell" etched with small triangles. The visual interaction between this complex's two tallest structures is like a burly giant of a man who watches over his new bride, who in turn casts her gaze skyward towards him.
Edit: My use of the marriage analogy is perhaps no mistake as I also see a connection between 200G's *diamond* motif and 1WTC's telecom *ring*. Cute, no?

Last edited by JayPro; Jul 25, 2011 at 5:10 AM. Reason: editing while half-awake.
     
     
  #2092  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 8:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STR View Post
^Fair enough. BTW, look at the bottom most X in post 2081, more fun and hyperbole there.

A "big picture" perspective.






It's 2 superfluous mechanical floors and an office floor that got redistributed via wider floor plates, yielding a measly 6% reduction in height, while maintaining the same 2.4Msqft of office and retail space. No need to have a panic attack. The choice here was either 1170, or 0 feet. 1240 was just not an option in this kind of economy.
Then why not just wait till the economy gets better...

Quote:
Now prove my point to Zapatan by showing your previous render before the floor cut to show that the height hasn't changed much when viewed from the same angle.

It looks f*cking retarted actually, they were ok to begin with but this whole complex could not afford to lose a single foot withougt being dramatically less impressive than the twins. And guess what? Now it is n
     
     
  #2093  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 12:30 PM
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damn, those height reductions make me sick.

http://www.wtc.com/about/office-tower-3
Quote:
Designed by Richard Rogers, 3 World Trade Center at 175 Greenwich Street will rise 1,170 ft feet above street level. The 80-story building will include 2.8 million square feet of office space spread across 53 floors and five trading floors.
and the same sh*t on the sp site...

http://www.silversteinproperties.com.../175-greenwich
Quote:
Designed by Richard Rogers, 3 World Trade Center at 175 Greenwich Street will rise 1,170 feet feet above street level. The 80-story building will include 2.8 million square feet of office space spread across 53 floors and five trading floors.
     
     
  #2094  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 View Post
Hey STR. Since Two World Trade Center has been shortened in height would the Manhattan and Brooklyn Bridges be visible from the observation deck of One World Trade Center?
Who said ANYTHING about 2 World Trade? There has been NO changes with that tower. Really, people need to relax here. All of this was worked on almost a year ago, the design was approved in September 2010 and finalized in January. If they were going to make major alterations, that would have been the time. Drawings for both buildings are done, construction is underway. It is highly unlikely there will be any major changes from here on out. We're locked in, just like with Tower 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
Then why not just wait till the economy gets better...
Because Silverstein is running a business. Sometimes the smart play is to wait, sometimes you have to tweak things so you can move now.
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There are six phases to every project 1) enthusiasm, 2) disillusionment, 3) panic, 4) search for the guilty, 5) punishment of the innocent, 6) praise for the non-participants. - Guy Tozzoli
Build your own Model Skyscrapers** New York City 2015 3D Model W/ New WTC ** World Trade Center (1971-2001) 3D Model

Last edited by STR; Jul 25, 2011 at 1:35 PM.
     
     
  #2095  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 1:33 PM
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Originally Posted by STR View Post
I thought you had your own model now? :p
Well yes, I do. But I don't have the model of the other buildings surrounding it.

Care to send me a copy of the other Manhattan building models?
     
     
  #2096  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 1:34 PM
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And enough speculation about height changes, please. We've gone over it, and nothing has been proven, so let it rest until it has.


JULY 24, 2011

Dance of the cranes continues...

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  #2097  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 1:35 PM
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Hey NYGuy, speaking of cranes, what happend to that "cracked" 2nd crane on the 3WTC site?
     
     
  #2098  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 1:39 PM
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Hey NYGuy, speaking of cranes, what happend to that "cracked" 2nd crane on the 3WTC site?
Apparently tooken care of. It wasn't a big issue because it wasn't in use at the time. The big issue now is whether or not UBS (or some other large tenant) signs in time to keep this show moving next year.
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  #2099  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 1:42 PM
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Apparently tooken care of. It wasn't a big issue because it wasn't in use at the time. The big issue now is whether or not UBS (or some other large tenant) signs in time to keep this show moving next year.
Ah I see.

Any news on UBS? Haven't heard about them in a while.
     
     
  #2100  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2011, 1:46 PM
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Any news on UBS? Haven't heard about them in a while.
It won't be an immediate decision. But not the only option either.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...ZRI_video.html

Sounds promising.
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