Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[blueandgoldguy]

Looks good. I was almost fooled by some of the pics as I thought they were renders, not real images.

Keep in mind, about $40 million or slightly more of the money spent by True North over the past 6+ years (basically all of the monies involved in the renos) is from gambling revenue that True North receives from the government for gambling revenues from the Shark Club next door. Without those revenues, True North's investment in the MTS Centre since 2011 would be minimal...maybe a few million here or there.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by WpG_GuY

Still think it has the best looking exterior of all arenas in Canada (especially from street level)

[esquire]

^ The site meant compromises in certain aspects (it is fairly cramped inside relative to most newer NHL rinks... it has been said more than once that it's really the initially conceived 12,000 seat arena with 15,000 seats jammed inside) but the upside is that it is really well integrated into the urban fabric. The solid design helps in that respect.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The site meant compromises in certain aspects (it is fairly cramped inside relative to most newer NHL rinks... it has been said more than once that it's really the initially conceived 12,000 seat arena with 15,000 seats jammed inside) but the upside is that it is really well integrated into the urban fabric. The solid design helps in that respect.

Better to have a smaller rink that fills out more often than a big rink that struggles to sell out IMO.

I'd love to hit up a Jets game in Winnipeg. I've seen them in Arizona, but a home crowd is always more fun.

[Coldrsx]

So many people were talking about how impressive this area is becoming while walking to Rogers last night. Great to see the jerseys Downtown again!


www.twitter.com/ianoyeg

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by drew

I am obviously in the minority - but I think the Saddledome needs a refresh more than a replacement.

It's already in almost an ideal location, and it's an "iconic" building.

I agree that the building is iconic and that, if possible, they should at least keep the roof-line. If Seattle can do it with Key Arena, Calgary should be able to do it with the Saddledome.

Originally Posted by wave46

Better to have a smaller rink that fills out more often than a big rink that struggles to sell out IMO.

I'd love to hit up a Jets game in Winnipeg. I've seen them in Arizona, but a home crowd is always more fun.

That's what the Sens will be betting on. A few weeks ago, Anselmi (President and CEO of the Ottawa Senators) mentioned that the new arena will likely have somewhere between 15,000 and 17,000 seats. Compare that to the Corel Centre's peak seating of 19,153 (20,500 with standing room).

MTS is hands down the best arena in terms of urban integration. Montreal might come in #2 after all the development that has been going on around it in the last 5 years. Worse offenders are Calgary and Ottawa, with a sea of parking lots.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Looks good. I was almost fooled by some of the pics as I thought they were renders, not real images.

Keep in mind, about $40 million or slightly more of the money spent by True North over the past 6+ years (basically all of the monies involved in the renos) is from gambling revenue that True North receives from the government for gambling revenues from the Shark Club next door. Without those revenues, True North's investment in the MTS Centre since 2011 would be minimal...maybe a few million here or there.

yeah so lets just pretend like they didn't happen then. Honestly what possesses you to bring this up every time any mention of MTS centre upgrades are brought into question? True North needed a plan for reinvestment into the MTS centre and they secured funding for it. Good on them

[Oilkountry]

Another note on MTS upgrades one person on HF commented that the concourses seem bigger because the vendors were forced to take up less space

Is it my imagination, or did they increase the corridor widths by decreasing the depths of the food concession stands?

They did get some stuff out of the way - like that jersey customizing station that was at the south end that stuck out into the concourse. Seems like there are more and smaller concessions (though many weren't open last night) so that may be helping with the traffic flow...it seemed pretty reasonable last night but I was at the game with a enochlophobe so I didn't get to traverse the entire main level concourse. My impression of the south end is that it's more open.

I'm really glad they finally made use of the Main atrium. With the "observation deck" The concourses have enough bar type places now that it should alleviate some strain

[craner]

Originally Posted by WpG_GuY

The concourse upgrades at Bell MTS Place.

It's a handsome building.

[Hybrid247]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's what the Sens will be betting on. A few weeks ago, Anselmi (President and CEO of the Ottawa Senators) mentioned that the new arena will likely have somewhere between 15,000 and 17,000 seats. Compare that to the Corel Centre's peak seating of 19,153 (20,500 with standing room).

I think it would be a mistake to make the new downtown arena any less than 17,000. I'm sure if it were downtown right now it wouldn't have any problems filling 18,000 seats. Kanata is really the biggest factor in the low attendance and low season ticket base.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hybrid247

I think it would be a mistake to make the new downtown arena any less than 17,000. I'm sure if it were downtown right now it wouldn't have any problems filling 18,000 seats. Kanata is really the biggest factor in the low attendance and low season ticket base.

I think that's quite right.

Ottawa is known in sports circles for being a big "walk-up" crowd city and being in Kanata the Senators have totally isolated themselves from that phenomenon.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by craner

It's a handsome building.

Had a tour last week, beautiful shot...but these types of buildings have a block or more long dead walls to each side.

[drew]

I think that's quite right.

Ottawa is known in sports circles for being a big "walk-up" crowd city and being in Kanata the Senators have totally isolated themselves from that phenomenon.

^ the number of seats isn't as important as the price you can sell the seat for.

For new arenas, the more seats you add, the more money it costs to build the structure, all for the benefit of adding seats that sell for the lowest possible cost.

IMO, there is a sweet spot for "medium" size Canadian cities in terms of Arena capacity. It certainly isn't 19k or 20k. I think 17k is probably around the ideal capacity, both in terms of driving demand and keeping building and maintenance costs down.

[J.OT13]

We probably could support a 21,000 seat arena downtown, but I think the ambiance would take a hit. There are two other major factors to consider in Ottawa;

• Other than the grants and tax breaks related to cleanup of the contaminated site (and possibly asking for getting the air rights over the O-Train for free), which are already built in to the City's policy, the Sens likely won't be asking for any direct assistance to build the new arena , that means a limited budget;
• The restrictive site between the Sir John A. MacDonald Parkway and the Confederation Line probably doesn't allow anything more than 18,000 seats.

[O-tacular]

Behold the benevolent heroes aiming to rescue Calgarians from their plight of having to watch hockey games in a 34 year old arena!

[wave46]

It is an interesting comparison between the two NHL franchises trying to get new arenas built. To wit:

The Senators have participated in a public process to redevelop unused land.
The Flames have offered an unsolicited plan without consulting the city first.

The Sens have not requested public funding (yet).
The Flames have.

The Sens have largely built their bid around getting consensus and treading lightly from a PR point of view.
The Flames have picked up the bullhorn.

What's the takeaway from this?

The Senators have approached this in the right fashion. They haven't created a divisive atmosphere around their new arena, so if (IMO it will be 'when') they approach government for money, they're more likely to get some charity.

The Flames have made a point to play politics. It could backfire spectacularly. Then they've effectively screwed themselves, since Nenshi isn't likely to offer them a better deal if he's re-elected. It looks especially bad as Nenshi looks like the reasonable one in this debate whereas the Flames look greedy.

Final word: The 'tread lightly and build consensus' seems to work better in Canada.

[240glt]

Unfortunately I think the Flames organization has been emboldened by the sweetheart deal that happened in Edmonton, but in the end I don't think they'll go the same route. I think Calgary's got a backbone, As much as I am not a huge Nenshi fan I think he's got this one right. We'll see how it goes

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by wave46

It is an interesting comparison between the two NHL franchises trying to get new arenas built. To wit:

The Senators have participated in a public process to redevelop unused land.
The Flames have offered an unsolicited plan without consulting the city first.

The Sens have not requested public funding (yet).
The Flames have.?

I'm curious who would foot the bill for a Senators new arena? The Sens have the smallest fan base in Canada, even smaller the the Jets. Will a local firm or or trust fund step in to build a new arena? If tax dollars are not use I can't see it happening.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

I'm curious who would foot the bill for a Senators new arena? The Sens have the smallest fan base in Canada, even smaller the the Jets. Will a local firm or or trust fund step in to build a new arena? If tax dollars are not use I can't see it happening.

I think it will be a chunk from Melnyk.

As for government participants:

The City of Ottawa, most likely.

The feds won't touch an arena project. The province might depending on if they can spin it for use as a community project (see: Pan Am Games).

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by wave46

I think it will be a chunk from Melnyk.

As for government participants:

The City of Ottawa, most likely.

The feds won't touch an arena project. The province might depending on if they can spin it for use as a community project (see: Pan Am Games).

Won't be Melnyk. He doesn't have the money for it. It will be his partners who will pay for the rink in exchange for being able to build offices/retail/condos at Lebreton.

The situation in Ottawa is a little different than Calgary in that there is already a modern arena in the city. You can't claim the Canadian Tire Centre is outdated like the Saddledome is and expect people to take you seriously.