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  #221  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2013, 10:32 PM
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I agree. It's both so close and so far from the Pearl. I'll be happy to be proved wrong, but I just don't see anything panning out.
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  #222  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2013, 11:44 PM
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^ geez, just a few years ago when I was questioning the viability of this site FOR THESE VERY REASONS I was widely condemned on this very forum for "lacking vision" and "being unwilling to take a risk". harumph.

but that aside, last night I had a talk with someone who knows a bit more about this project, and his opinion is that schnitzer has the city over a barrel, due to the shady (and pointless) way we kicked out the previous developer. basically, he's going to propose all kinds of ridiculous, anti-portland ideas until the city steps up and says, ok, we'll offer more subsidies.

seriously, this project needs to be put to pasture. yes, the buildings are old, but is there really any architectural value in them? that whole strip from albers mills up to the fremont bridge would be better served by being 1) two lanes and 2) lined with condos. but a destination (retail/restaurant/whatever) just doesn't make a lot of sense there.
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  #223  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2013, 2:29 AM
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^ geez, just a few years ago when I was questioning the viability of this site FOR THESE VERY REASONS I was widely condemned on this very forum for "lacking vision" and "being unwilling to take a risk". harumph.
Not by me, that's for sure. Then again, I kinda got skewered for my opinion too when I questioned the viability of this project. I love those buildings at Centennial Mills. But I'm realistic.
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  #224  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2013, 11:30 PM
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The latest issue of the NW Examiner has an article about Jordan Schnitzer and his still-evolving plans for Centennial Mills. Two things stand out: he wants to put parking structures on the waterfront, since "no one wants to walk more than two blocks" and he rejects the idea of restaurant space facing the river, citing the failure of Lucier, McCalls and a few other places. As if that weren't enough, he seems pretty comfortable with tearing much of the mills down and building new structures. Someone get rid of this guy!
Yeah because Harborside is always empty.... wait...

Sheesh. Luceir was fixed price at $250 a plate plus your bar tab, and McCalls was just OLD and has no parking. Just a terrible line of reasoning by JS.

You know it's funny...Brad Malsin was kind of ahead of his time seeing the boom in cheaper foodie culture/carts. He has wanted to build an affordable food incubator place for 9-10 years (like Chelsea Market in NY) but the first vision died with Burnside Bridgehead. Centennial Mill seems like a brilliant place for it. Sad that Schnitzer has leverage here. But, it's not the first time he has held the strings.
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  #225  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2013, 2:38 AM
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BrG: EXACTLY. McCall's was always empty because it had a really challenging location that basically made it only good for Waterfront Park foot traffic. And, worse, the building is historic if I'm not mistaken, which meant the owners were limited with what they could do with the space (I had a chat with one of the previous owners many years ago about the challenges that came with the building).

Using McCall's as an example of why a restaurant shouldn't face the water is ignorant.
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  #226  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2013, 3:37 AM
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I've never understood the desire to pour resources into this site. It has too many challenges facing it due to its location, not to mention that it's boxed in by five lanes of Naito Parkway plus 2 sets of train tracks. I realize it's not an either/or, but the post office site has so much more potential in terms of redevelopment, and for a market, the Morrison bridgehead is a far better site. I'd be sad to see Centennial Mills torn down, but it doesn't have a location that makes for a huge pedestrian tourist draw, which means no matter what you do with the site, it's going to require parking parking and more parking.
Actually I wouldn't be apposed to more parking near Centennial Mills. It would make sense to put in a garage for people that drove there, as well as being able to create plenty of bike parking. This would also work for providing extra parking for people visiting the Mills as well as northern Pearl District as that area grows, which I believe the plans were to have some more commercial on the north end as well.
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  #227  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2013, 3:49 AM
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Even if it had parking - lots of parking - I just don't see this site being the best use of any city development money. If a developer wants to buy the site - fine. But I just think the site has too many challenges to make it worth the effort, especially when the money could be better used elsewhere. Centennial Mills and Memorial Coliseum are both sites that could swallow up so much money with no return at all. Both already have, haven't they?
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  #228  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2013, 4:15 AM
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Nah, had the pedestrian bridge been extended to Centennial Mills, and a destination created, this would have been a slam dunk. We should go back to LAB Holding with our tail between our legs.


http://djcoregon.com/news/2009/12/30...nance-climate/


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  #229  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2013, 4:39 AM
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Actually I wouldn't be apposed to more parking near Centennial Mills. It would make sense to put in a garage for people that drove there, as well as being able to create plenty of bike parking. This would also work for providing extra parking for people visiting the Mills as well as northern Pearl District as that area grows, which I believe the plans were to have some more commercial on the north end as well.
What you may not know, though, since it might have been built after you left, is that there's a huge garage in the Pearl (on 9th) and as far as I know it's almost completely empty.
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  #230  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2013, 9:31 AM
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What you may not know, though, since it might have been built after you left, is that there's a huge garage in the Pearl (on 9th) and as far as I know it's almost completely empty.
I know the garage you're referring to, though it might be a bit further east than 9th? Or not? It's often empty because it isn't where the people already are. Put that garage over by the brewery blocks and it'd be full. But it's not. It's out of the line of traffic patterns and it languishes.

People go where people go.
People don't go where they don't think to go.
It really is that simple.
There isn't enough to draw people toward that garage.

I realize this will come off as a terrible example, but, look at Starbucks. They study foot traffic, which explains why they can open a Starbucks within a block of another Starbucks and know it'll do well. On the other hand, you have streets like SW Jefferson between 12th and 13th where businesses struggle even though so many people live nearby. Why? Not enough foot traffic. I live in the neighborhood but I never think to walk west unless I'm headed to Goose Hollow, which means I never pass by that row of restaurants even though they're 2 blocks away.

It's pretty amazing when you look at a neighborhood - any neighborhood - and see where people go and see where they don't. Put a business even just one block off the beaten bath and you're in for a struggle.

My point? THAT PARKING GARAGE WON'T DO DIDLY FOR CENTENNIAL MILLS. Neither will a streetcar when the nearest stop is at 10th and Marshal. It's even further away if you're coming from NW rather than heading from downtown.

Centennial Mills has a poor location for anything less than a major tourist destination. And if you were going to put a major tourist destination there, you'd be better off putting that destination somewhere else, where people already are or where you have better access to freeways and mass transit. A pedestrian bridge across the Fields park would have been nice, but it wouldn't have been enough. Five lanes of traffic on Naito plus two rail lines minus MAX or direct streetcar stops with nothing major to the left or right of it, not to mention that there's no meaningful fun stuff anywhere near it. Centennial Mills is an island unto itself. Even just getting to it is a pain in the butt. Look at the Post Office site in the Pearl. It has such easy freeway access. Centennial Mills? No. As a major tourist site or shopping destination? Please.

It's. Not. Gunna. Happen.
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  #231  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2013, 1:25 PM
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Mill City Museum (Minneapolis)

I was in Minneapolis a few years ago and was struck by the similarities between the Mill City Museum building and Centennial Mills. Does anyone here know much about that project in Minneapolis, how successful the renovation has been, and whether there are any lessons learned there for the Centennial Mills project in Portland?


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  #232  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2013, 3:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkDaMan View Post
Nah, had the pedestrian bridge been extended to Centennial Mills, and a destination created, this would have been a slam dunk. We should go back to LAB Holding with our tail between our legs.


http://djcoregon.com/news/2009/12/30...nance-climate/


https://www.google.com/search?q=cent...2F%3B600%3B388
Oh yeah, I forgot they shot down the bridge idea....they really should bring that back.
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  #233  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2014, 4:57 PM
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  #234  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2014, 11:52 PM
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Eventually it will, it is high profile enough that it will. As long as we renovate it right, I am not too worried how long it takes.

Honestly I always felt it would happen when the North Pearl was mostly built out.
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  #235  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2014, 4:51 AM
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I was always a fan of the high density proposals for this site.

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  #236  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2014, 5:05 AM
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I was always a fan of the high density proposals for this site.

Wouldn't that be nice.
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  #237  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2014, 12:37 AM
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I hope we see a number of new towers like the North Point tower pop up in North Pearl to create a distinct Pearl District skyline. I have always thought North Pearl would be a great area for another SoWa like area....though I also think the West End would also work for a SoWa style area as well. Basically I would like to see downtown Portland get bigger and more dense.
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  #238  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2014, 12:54 AM
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I hope we see a number of new towers like the North Point tower pop up in North Pearl to create a distinct Pearl District skyline. I have always thought North Pearl would be a great area for another SoWa like area....though I also think the West End would also work for a SoWa style area as well. Basically I would like to see downtown Portland get bigger and more dense.
I happened to come across an article in the Seattle P.I. that I thought I would share. I know many people on this forum have mentioned that they wished the surface parking lots would be considered/developed prior to existing structured being demolished. This article states that many of the surface lots in the Denny Triangle area of Seattle are in the sights of the building boom currently happening in Seattle. Hopefully, Portland developers, will take another look at these surface lots scattered around downtown Portland.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...in-5390559.php

If this link needs to placed somewhere else in the forum maybe a moderator will kindly do this for me....or just ignore this post entirely.

Last edited by PacificNW; Apr 15, 2014 at 3:39 AM.
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  #239  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2014, 2:07 AM
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I happened to come across an article in the Seattle P.I. that I thought I would share. I know many people on this forum have mentioned that they wished the surface parking lots would be considered/developed prior to existing structured being demolished. This article states that many of the surface lots in the Denny Triangle area of Seattle are in the sights of the building boom currently happening in Seattle. Hopefully, Portland developers. will take another look at these surface lots scattered around downtown Portland.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...in-5390559.php

If this link needs to placed somewhere else in the forum maybe a moderator will kindly do this for me....or just ignore this post entirely.
It is crazy how much Denny Triangle has built up, I use to always park on those surface lots when I went up to Seattle to visit. That area reminds me of the Pearl District with how rapidly that district redeveloped. I imagine as pressure mounts in Portland, we will see more and more parking lots disappear as the cost of land continues to rise.
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  #240  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2014, 2:25 PM
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No we wont. Again, the arrangement that the goodman family has is cost prohibitive for developers and the family refuses to sell. The problem is simple these guys holding on to a huge amount of land DT. The only solution is to make surface parking too expense for them. To be honest its already too late to take advantage of this development boom. DT will get Park tower but thats about it. At least the rest of the city is growing. Poor DT, held hostage by one greedy family.
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