AUSTIN | The Independent | 690 FEET | 58 FLOORS | Complete

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Flatiron

What about the eventuality that economics will favor an older building or parking garage being replaced with something taller or more interesting?

I doubt Austin will ever have the economic and political context required for an older building to be replaced (nor are there that many that aren't historic or large enough to make it unpracticable) and there aren't very many parking garages around town that could be replaced.

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

I doubt Austin will ever have the economic and political context required for an older building to be replaced (nor are there that many that aren't historic or large enough to make it unpracticable) and there aren't very many parking garages around town that could be replaced.

I have been considering just this thing since ATX posted our list of next skyscrapers . . . we're definitely near a point where low hanging fruit (empty lots, mostly,) are out of circulation for one reason or another, and developers will have to start considering low value uses of existing structures if they want to build up. My fav parking garage -- between 5th and 6th and Guadalupe and San Antonio fits just this description. Currently one or two stories, covers the whole block, not encumbered by a CVC. Barring something a restriction I'm not aware of, that thing is just begging to be torn down and redeveloped. A similar, slightly bigger garage at San Antonio/Nueces and 4th/5th might also be a candidate. Someone on another thread suggested that the Hobby Building might one day be up for redevelopment, and I think that's very plausible. There're some blocks near the convention center expansion that might go higher, too. I'm thinking of the condos on the south side of 4th across from the Courtyard.

This may be too much 3 dimensional chess, but IMO the NEXT next wave of development will probably have to include more strategic demolitions than we've seen.

[We vs us]

Originally Posted by the Genral

Yeah I have to sit down with the guy again soon. He kind of cliff hanged me. The reason I'm leaning on this as being more realistic than not is due to his skill set being in such demand that he is being sought out, and he said he was probably leaving 5th and W, turned down an offer on the Independent, to consider joining in on the development and building of a 72 story tower in Austin. I did hesitate revealing my conversation with him to ya'll about this because a) its off topic and b) its unofficial, but I'm now a believer that an announcement about a supertall (by Austin standards) is imminent. Sooner than too much later. Remember, when everyone was saying the Fairmont was not going to be built, I was saying it was because my friend working on the Colorado told me his company was bidding on it. It didn't turn out quite the way we hoped, but it did get built. I typically don't stick my neck out unless I trust my sources. I trust this guy. Still, we all know things can change or downsize. I don't know why I keep getting these cool connections, but I guess I get around. I am friends with a guy working on 5th and W in a upper level capacity (he asked me to keep him and his title anonymous) who's friends with the super on the Independent. Wow! Problem is the only time I run into him is when he comes by my office, and he's usually in a hurry and we have to discuss 'other' business first.

I'm a total fan of hearsay, especially from someone who plausibly has a connection to what's actually happening. Usually there's more than a grain of truth to what finally arrives.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by We vs us

I'm a total fan of hearsay, especially from someone who plausibly has a connection to what's actually happening. Usually there's more than a grain of truth to what finally arrives.

Plus, it keeps hope alive. We are sooooo spoiled here, we need a signature tower and we need to bust through the plateau. The Independent is significant but is not the Holy Grail of highrises, and neither is the Austonian with that silly looking crown. Might mention that 5th and W and the Independent will be single pours to the top which means at least a floor per week, maybe every 6 days, weather permitting. Larger floors plans such as the Colorado required two pours, and the whole structure actually leaned slightly by an inch or so after the first pour.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by the Genral

I was just privy to a conversation between a person I know who is part of a team working on 5th and West, and the superintendent of the Independent...He said he was probably going to move on and start working on a building that would be 72 floors. He said he turned down an offer to work on the Independant to work on this one...so I asked him what city was he moving to and he said nowhere, its going to be built in Austin.

Seems like your source works on residential tower projects...is that true?

If so, maybe this 72-story project would be residential?!?

Originally Posted by the Genral

He also dangled the news of a new rather tall hotel in the works in my face, but I can't remember the brand.

Huh...interesting. Wish you could remember the brand.



Since you seem to have some inroads to developments on-the-board (but, not yet public), are any of these associated with Waller Park Place?

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

Seems like your source works on residential tower projects...is that true?

If so, maybe this 72-story project would be residential?!?

He currently is. That's what I'm thinking, a tall, lean residential. He showed me other projects he worked on in Houston....impressive. Unfortunately, we wasted what little time we had talking about the Enron building and talking to his friend about the shoring issue with the Independent.



Huh...interesting. Wish you could remember the brand.

I was walking him to his truck, I didn't have a paper and pen with me when he mentioned it or the web page with the portfolios of the Architect. Definitely off brand, at least for Austin or I would have remembered.

Since you seem to have some inroads to developments on-the-board (but, not yet public), are any of these associated with Waller Park Place?

He didn't say, but we were discussing the skyline in the cluster around 5th and W and the 360 area so its possible. I'll ask him next time I see him.

btw, he was lured here from Houston, UT grad, as he said, because of the large amount of projects u/c and in the works. We're going to have another boom after this one that appears to be more vertical than quantity. This from our conversation about the 400ft plateau we've been experiencing. We all know the hurdles faced to grow taller, but as my buddy from Colorado Tower, once told me, we have the perfect ground conditions to build really tall, and less and less sites to do so on. Now...about the future demand and economy? I don't think wait and see as much as an option, albeit I'm not an investor, but I hope we see build and gamble on absorption before the financing goes away or the viable sites are taken by the 400ft main stayers, and at the risk of low occupancies, which is not good either.

[GoldenBoot]

Thanks Genral! I will patiently and eagerly await more updates.

[drummer]

^^ Likewise! My one beef with the appearance of Independent is that the jut-outs are really only east and west. I wish they did north and south as well...that'd be fun. Either way, it's an impressive addition (and not just a tall rectangular prism!) to our skyline. I'm grateful that we even have the opportunity to have such a discussion. We truly are spoiled rotten, as theGeneral mentioned above.

[Sigaven]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

I doubt Austin will ever have the economic and political context required for an older building to be replaced (nor are there that many that aren't historic or large enough to make it unpracticable) and there aren't very many parking garages around town that could be replaced.

What about all those government parking garages around San Jacinto east of the capitol??? I am hoping maybe one day those ugly things will be razed.....I know, they're kind of necessary right now, but man, it makes for such a depressing streetscape down San Jacinto and Trinity! Has such a great potential to be a great area - with the capitol nearby, the new medical school and upcoming redevelopment of Brackenridge, Waterloo Park (if it ever gets rehabilitated)...

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

What about all those government parking garages around San Jacinto east of the capitol??? I am hoping maybe one day those ugly things will be razed.....I know, they're kind of necessary right now, but man, it makes for such a depressing streetscape down San Jacinto and Trinity! Has such a great potential to be a great area - with the capitol nearby, the new medical school and upcoming redevelopment of Brackenridge, Waterloo Park (if it ever gets rehabilitated)...

They're owned by the state government and will eventually be used for state offices, most likely.

Here's everything you'll need to know how the land between the University and UT will eventually be used.

http://www.tfc.state.tx.us/divisions...onadmin/tools/

[paul78701]

13 Projects Changing The Face Of American Cities:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bisnow/.../#7e67eb46b7b7

The Independent is on page 2.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by paul78701

13 Projects Changing The Face Of American Cities:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bisnow/.../#7e67eb46b7b7

The Independent is on page 2.

Upon further thought about supertalls. The first two buildings on this page are listed as supertall at 57 and 61 stories respectively. So a 72 story tower in Austin could very well be built as a supertall.

[Sigaven]

Originally Posted by paul78701

Upon further thought about supertalls. The first two buildings on this page are listed as supertall at 57 and 61 stories respectively. So a 72 story tower in Austin could very well be built as a supertall.

I thought supertalls were generally defined as over 1000', not necessarily by floor count.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by Sigaven

I thought supertalls were generally defined as over 1000', not necessarily by floor count.

Floor count and height correlate, obviously. What he's saying is that it is possible to see a building be a super tall despite having only ~65 or so floors. That's admittedly at the lower end of floor counts for super talls, but isn't atypical of super talls that are office buildings because of the higher floor to ceiling heights in those buildings.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

Floor count and height correlate, obviously. What he's saying is that it is possible to see a building be a super tall despite having only ~65 or so floors. That's admittedly at the lower end of floor counts for super talls, but isn't atypical of super talls that are office buildings because of the higher floor to ceiling heights in those buildings.

Yup. Exactly what I was saying. Thanks...

It looks as if 980' is the cutoff for a supertall:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ll_skyscrapers

[wwmiv]

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...08918&page=193

The Merck announcement is probably our best bet for a large office tower downtown.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by paul78701

Yup. Exactly what I was saying. Thanks...

It looks as if 980' is the cutoff for a supertall:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ll_skyscrapers

That list shows 40 supertall buildings worldwide that are 72 stories or less.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by wwmiv

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...08918&page=193

The Merck announcement is probably our best bet for a large office tower downtown.

Not quite (and it depends on your definition of "large"). More than likely, if Merck does choose Austin, they would try to be as near to the medical school as possible (i.e., in a new tower in the Brackenridge "Innovation District").

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

Not quite (and it depends on your definition of "large"). More than likely, if Merck does choose Austin, they would try to be as near to the medical school as possible (i.e., in a new tower in the Brackenridge "Innovation District").

That Merck article that was posted did mention they're looking at sites between Lavaca and I-35 and 9th and MLK. That would include the Block 71 site where we already know something tall is being considered.

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

That Merck article that was posted did mention they're looking at sites between Lavaca and I-35 and 9th and MLK. That would include the Block 71 site where we already know something tall is being considered.

Good point, and IMO the Block 71 project is further along than the Brackenridge tract project if Merck wants something built relatively quick.