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  #161  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:29 AM
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Well, those additional renders confirm to me that the two taller towers are really nice. There's some nice angles and detail to the glass. Very elegant. Very Pelli. It's hard to call this a missed opportunity. I think we're so damn spoiled in Chicago, that we have a tendency to expect too much.
     
     
  #162  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rgolch View Post
Well, those additional renders confirm to me that the two taller towers are really nice. There's some nice angles and detail to the glass. Very elegant. Very Pelli. It's hard to call this a missed opportunity. I think we're so damn spoiled in Chicago, that we have a tendency to expect too much.
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I think we're so damn spoiled in Chicago, that we have a tendency to expect too much
Agreed. I live in the Southwest part of America, and around here everyone loves Chicago, we have more respect for it then any city in America except NY.

Also, I am ecstatic for these towers after seeing the latest renders. The view from wacker drive is better then I hoped. All I can say is, lets start building!
     
     
  #163  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:46 AM
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Agreed! I love that they have the river point rendering on there too. I don't know what people are really expecting, but I think these are great additions to Chicago's skyline.
A design not from 2007 located in Oklahoma City?

I'm okay with this proposal....but it's a visible sign Chicago is lowering its expectations on cutting edge design. I'm not suggesting some wacky designs like you see in the middle east or china, rather something a bit more memorable for that site. We've essentially already constructed similar buildings in the past decade. I'd like to see something a bit more progressive this decade and not regret that we built something reflective of weak economy.

I'm jealous of the inconic towers New York is getting. Chicago needs to respond.
     
     
  #164  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:51 AM
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I almost wish this was the final design
     
     
  #165  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 2:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
A design not from 2007 located in Oklahoma City?

I'm okay with this proposal....but it's a visible sign Chicago is lowering its expectations on cutting edge design. I'm not suggesting some wacky designs like you see in the middle east or china, rather something a bit more memorable for that site. We've essentially already constructed similar buildings in the past decade. I'd like to see something a bit more progressive this decade and not regret that we built something reflective of weak economy.

I'm jealous of the inconic towers New York is getting. Chicago needs to respond.
First of all, a repurposed design is nothing to be ashamed of. IBM was old hat by the time it was built Seagram came 15 years earlier and 860-880 came 25 years earlier.

Also, talking to friends from New York, I realize the number of buildings they get that would be considered iconic anywhere else. Also, China is getting lots of really great highrise design along with the wacky stuff. But one of these Cesar Pelli roundish things ain't a half bad thing to add to Chiago's collection of highrises.
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  #166  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:00 AM
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There was time when Pelli seemed to design unique structures for a particular city. Key Tower, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo in Minneapolis might draw from similar inspirations but each is unique in its own way.

Now he just seems to crank out the same design regardless of the location.

With the near endless possibilities in creativity with design today, shoudn't that afford architects the opportunity to create even more unique structures? FLW understood this and pushed the envelope until the very end. Apparenty, Pelli missed this memo. Instead, his recent towers remind me of the roller coasters you find at a Six Flags park. A few unique ones here and there while many are simply clones found at other parks.
     
     
  #167  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:00 AM
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Wow. More fantastically bland architecture. The only tower that seems vaguely interesting is the shortest one, if only because of the base and interaction with the waterfront. However, I completely expected that this was going to be a total disappointment. But that seems to be the MO for every city right now.
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  #168  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Hayward View Post
A design not from 2007 located in Oklahoma City?

I'm okay with this proposal....but it's a visible sign Chicago is lowering its expectations on cutting edge design.

I'm jealous of the inconic towers New York is getting. Chicago needs to respond.
But we're not NY. I think some forumers have to be realistic. Honestly, even what's presented will be a challenge to get done.

Just take a minute and imagine how much of an impact this project in total would have on the river canyon.
     
     
  #169  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:05 AM
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How can someone not love this ?



     
     
  #170  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G View Post
I'm too young to remember what happened with Trump, but weren't there significant changes made to the design because of outcry from Chicago's architecture community? If so, maybe that process can be used as a template for Wolf Point.
Yes, the design changed drastically. A lot of that had to do with 9/11, but there was certainty public outcry over the first couple versions. Lets also not forget the many iterations the spire went through before its ultimate demise. Or Block 37 for that matter. This is going to be a long timeline and will be an achievement if it even gets built, period.

I don't hate the design at all, but love would be too strong. If this is what we got I wouldn't be unhappy but it does seem to be lacking that extra "something". For as big a project as it is the river walk strikes me as a little uninspired too...dosen't appear to be all that much space to actually sit or get away. Most of the vegetation appears to be large planters.
     
     
  #171  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:07 AM
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But we're not NY. I think some forumers have to be realistic. Honestly, even what's presented will be a challenge to get done.
I completely agree for supertalls, but most of the great design in NY, we should remember, isn't supertalls. BraveNewWorld pointed that out. Most of the great stuff in NY is midrise.
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  #172  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:18 AM
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I think it is absolutely fair to say that Pelli "plays it safe" but I think the same could (and should) be said of BKL. This really isn't the place to get into such a discussion, but Chicago hasn't been the Vanguard of modern architecture for years and, as I live most of my time outside of Chicago, I will have you know that no one thinks of Chicago when they think of truly cutting edge architecture. For highrises, they think of NY or (more often) certain cities in Asia. And Gang's rise seems more questionable now than it did a few years ago. While Aqua was one of the best towers I have ever seen, people outside of Chicago simply don't talk about it all that much anymore. Moreover, some of her other things lack that ingenious simplicity that made Aqua so special imo. Plus, she really hasn't secured any commissions outside of the midwest either. We'll have to see if she really becomes the next big thing or is just a one trick pony.
Note that I said "Chicago had been at the vanguard of Modernism." I don't think anyone would argue that it still is.

IMO, the rest of your analysis is naive and ill-informed. It takes a long, long time to "make it" in the architecture world. It's even more difficult when you start to gain public attention as your domestic market almost collapses. The truth is that Jeanne Gang's practice has never been busier. As for that building, well, it was completed two years ago, so of course conversation about it has died down. When skyscrapers are being completed left and right across the developing world, I'm frankly surprised it got as much attention as it did. You're entitled to your opinion about the rest of her oeuvre, but I strongly disagree. The MacArthur Foundation would seem to, as well: This past fall, if you'll remember, they named her a "genius," only the fourth architect to receive that honor after 30 years and 800 recipients. Hard to think of a bigger vote of confidence than $500 grand, no strings attached.

I bring her up in this context because, like I said, it reminds me somewhat of Louis Sullivan/John Wellborn Root's ideas about the Columbian Exposition or the proposals by Eliel Saarinen and Walter Gropius for the Tribune Tower: the progressive but more radical possibility (Jeanne Gang and her avant-garde Chicago cohorts, or higher profile firms from elsewhere) is totally ignored in favor of the safe but mundane (Pelli). This is not how you boost the image of a city that has historically aspired (and achieved!) something much greater.
     
     
  #173  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:21 AM
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I completely agree for supertalls, but most of the great design in NY, we should remember, isn't supertalls. BraveNewWorld pointed that out. Most of the great stuff in NY is midrise.
Well, I'm not an architect, but to me this still looks better than most of the proposals I see from other cities. MOST... certainly not all.

As I said, I don't think it's a home run. But it is very, very good. Better than anything we have proposed or under construction in Chicago right now. And everyone here keeps mentioning Aqua... it may be sacrelig to mention it, but I don't think Aqua is all that. It's certainly interesting, but in more of a novel, and gimmicky way. I find the 2 main towers of this proposal to be far more sophisticated and aesthetically pleasing than Aqua. And certainly more appropriate for office towers.
     
     
  #174  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:21 AM
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How can someone not love this ?



The view looking west is the best part of this project. The view looking north doesn't cover the ugly Suntimes building enough. I'm not too impressed with the river walk either. It seems as though they sacrificed the river walk for a park behind the towers. I feel the south tower should be pushed back a bit to make room for a bigger and better river front park.
     
     
  #175  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:26 AM
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A few notes:

- I'm not sure how much of this was posturing, but they seemed really committed to using high-end finishes on the building. Two of the presenters brought that up multiple times independently of each other, while throwing in the phrase 'signature tower' for good measure.
- They are "mandating a 'textured look'" on the exteriors of the buildings.
- The windows will be high-quality and transparent - not reflective. (When talking about recent Chicago high rises: "We're very concerned with this [reflective glass] trend we've noticed.")
- 22% site coverage
- Will generate $40m/yr in property taxes with no public subsidy
- 1k+ feet of new riverwalk
- One gent (Reilly?) mentioned that these renders and more info would be available on WolfPointChicago.com after the meeting. The site is inactive as of this post.
- The abridged presentation slides will be available on the website or by contacting Reilly's office. (It may be just the traffic study section - they weren't entirely clear on this point). The presentation probably had another dozen or so renderings, including a few detailed renderings of Phase 1 (West Tower + landscaping).

The Q&A section was hilariously depressing. 2/3 of the audience was ardently against the proposal and would automatically applaud any time anyone muttered the word 'park' or 'traffic'. The two people who spoke up in favor of the development (an urban planner who inquired about the area's impending parking glut and a river tour guide who suggested consolidating into 2 taller towers) were met with enthusiastic applause from a small group of 15-20.
     
     
  #176  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:30 AM
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Originally Posted by markh9 View Post
- They are "mandating a 'textured look'" on the exteriors of the buildings.
- The windows will be high-quality and transparent - not reflective. (When talking about recent Chicago high rises: "We're very concerned with this [reflective glass] trend we've noticed.")
Both these make me really really happy.
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  #177  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chicago_Forever View Post
The view looking west is the best part of this project. The view looking north doesn't cover the ugly Suntimes building enough. I'm not too impressed with the river walk either. It seems as though they sacrificed the river walk for a park behind the towers. I feel the south tower should be pushed back a bit to make room for a bigger and better river front park.
I know that this is just a minor function of the whole project but I could not get what you said out of my head even before you posted it. It was the first thing I looked at when the details were presented....

Either way, this is no doubt better than the surface parking going on-on the site that was status quo for the last many decades...

I just hoped for a more proud tower that could have broke the 1000 ft mark,...

that said I will await more info on this very important site on the river.....
     
     
  #178  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:39 AM
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Originally Posted by markh9 View Post
A few notes:
The Q&A section was hilariously depressing. 2/3 of the audience was ardently against the proposal and would automatically applaud any time anyone muttered the word 'park' or 'traffic'. The two people who spoke up in favor of the development (an urban planner who inquired about the area's impending parking glut and a river tour guide who suggested consolidating into 2 taller towers) were met with enthusiastic applause from a small group of 15-20.
Lol. Pretty much the way these meetings work...
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  #179  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:41 AM
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Lol. Pretty much the way these meetings work...
Will the massive disapproval hurt this ? I heard that the Kennedys have the best lawyer's in Chicago so that could help
     
     
  #180  
Old Posted May 30, 2012, 3:44 AM
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Yea I hope their say is not important in this then. This would be a great development for Chi town
     
     
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