Winnipeg James Armstrong Richardson International Airport

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Really? I don't know anyone that likes Royal Fork Buffet

From my experience, Allegiant Air caters to a very specific clientele out of Winnipeg. With that being said, I don't think that Winnipeggers are cheap vacationers at all. I can think of about half a dozen people off the top of my head that went to Hawaii last year. The other piece is that Winnipeg is the hub for a very large geographical area. Have a look around the parking lot next time and you will see a lot of Ontario, Minnesota and Saskatchewan plates. My understanding is that these groups also fill a lot of the demand at WAA.

[CoryB]

Hawaii also has an appeal to a group of people that other winter sun vacations don't -- it is basically an American city with all the restaurant chains you would expect. There is also not really a question on the quality of the water or if you might get some disease specific to where you are vacationing. If you think that isn't a big deal look at the marketing that is out there for travel vacations.

For a lot of that group of people Hawaii is viewed as being as safe as a weekend trip to Grand Forks where Mexico, Cuba, etc are not. Those people put a priority on their perceived safety when choosing a vacation and are willing to pay the Hawaii premium.

--

In terms of Allergiant v Flair v others. With Vegas my experience is the true savings aren't so much on the airfare side but rather the complete vacation package. Often the airlines, especially the ultra low cost ones, have deals with hotels, etc that they will bring in so many people at a set time. In return they get a discount over the retail prices. The airline keeps a cut of that discount obviously but also passes some of it on so the end customers are getting deals that are otherwise not available.

[esquire]

^ I am one of those people who likes Hawaii for exactly the reasons you've stated, Cory. When I was younger, I remember going to the Caribbean (decent places too, 5* Punta Cana resorts) and the kinds of debilitating gut-bugs that landed friends in the hospital. Not to mention other headaches associated with travelling to developing countries.

By contrast, Hawaii is totally hassle free, other than the long flight. Unfortunately YWG is a bit far from Hawaii, and the market is a bit small for us to sustain nonstop flights that would at least make it less of a hassle. However, once you get there everything is up to North American standards. Food, driving, safety generally... no concerns. With young kids in tow, there is peace of mind that comes with a winter vacation in Hawaii.

I will say that booking this winter's trip to Hawaii was a bit painful as the normal Hawaii premium was exacerbated by the drop in the C$'s value. I think for future winter vacations I might consider other options, especially now that my kids are getting a little older.

[CoryB]

^^ I am fairly certain that the 767 operated by WestJet could do Winnipeg-Hawaii non-stop. After all those same planes have done Winnipeg-London, England non-stop.

The question is could they fill up one flight a week each way from Winnipeg at a price that means they are making some money.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

^^ I am fairly certain that the 767 operated by WestJet could do Winnipeg-Hawaii non-stop. After all those same planes have done Winnipeg-London, England non-stop.

The question is could they fill up one flight a week each way from Winnipeg at a price that means they are making some money.

And perhaps more importantly, would it put WS in a position to make more money than they would by just running the plane from YYC/YVR to Hawaii? To come here you're burning a lot more fuel to serve a smaller, arguably more price-sensitive market.

[bomberjet]

If planes to/from CGY and VAN have empty seats, it makes no sense. If those planes are near full, it would make sense to have a direct WPG/HWI route.

[esquire]

^ It's more than just a matter of empty seats. Price per ticket and costs of fuel, labour, etc. factor into it too. If there was easy money to be made running planes between Winnipeg and Hawaii then someone would be doing it.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ It's more than just a matter of empty seats. Price per ticket and costs of fuel, labour, etc. factor into it too. If there was easy money to be made running planes between Winnipeg and Hawaii then someone would be doing it.

Let's say someone could fill a plane in Winnipeg and it's bound for Hawaii. Is it cheaper to run that route say once a month. Or to have those people fill empty seats on daily trips to Van. Those seats would otherwise remain unsold and said airline wouldn't make that money on them. When people get to Van, they would again fill seats on another flight that may not have been full to Hawaii.

IMO, it seems cheaper to fill your empty seats than start a new route even if the new route was full. Isn't that basically how airlines work?

The only way Winnipeg would get a direct is if A.) we could fill the plane and B.) the planes were full already from Van/Cgy. They aren't going to start running flights from Winnipeg just because we're nice people (which I think we're in agreement on).

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Hawaii also has an appeal to a group of people that other winter sun vacations don't -- it is basically an American city with all the restaurant chains you would expect. There is also not really a question on the quality of the water or if you might get some disease specific to where you are vacationing. If you think that isn't a big deal look at the marketing that is out there for travel vacations.

For a lot of that group of people Hawaii is viewed as being as safe as a weekend trip to Grand Forks where Mexico, Cuba, etc are not. Those people put a priority on their perceived safety when choosing a vacation and are willing to pay the Hawaii premium.

--

In terms of Allergiant v Flair v others. With Vegas my experience is the true savings aren't so much on the airfare side but rather the complete vacation package. Often the airlines, especially the ultra low cost ones, have deals with hotels, etc that they will bring in so many people at a set time. In return they get a discount over the retail prices. The airline keeps a cut of that discount obviously but also passes some of it on so the end customers are getting deals that are otherwise not available.

Hawaii is not an American city and Honolulu (Waikiki) is only one location in the state. The major islands for tourists (Oahu, Hawaii - The Big Island, Maui and Kauai) as well as the minor islands of Lanai and Molokai, all offer a very different experience.

Hawaii is an amazing travel destination and offers just about everything anyone would want and with a near perfect climate. It is not a budget destination though and I cannot see the Winnipeg market being able to sustain a non-stop service to HNL. Even Kansas City, with a metro pop. more than double that of Winnipeg, does not have a non-stop.

[plrh]

Hawaii was cheaper than I thought it would be when I went last year. You can comfortably do 10 days for $2000 per person with a little bit of planning. My family of 4 preferred it to Cuba all-inclusive, which was about the same price. The flight length is what sucks about Hawaii. I met many people from Winnipeg there. A direct flight would probably work, but I would rather have 1 connection and a lower price (because it's 4 tickets for me).

[Authentic_City]

Am I misremembering or were there directs flights to Hawaii from Winnipeg many years ago - perhaps back in the early 80s? I’m guessing these were likely charters? Dose anyone remember this?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by plrh

Hawaii was cheaper than I thought it would be when I went last year. You can comfortably do 10 days for $2000 per person with a little bit of planning. My family of 4 preferred it to Cuba all-inclusive, which was about the same price. The flight length is what sucks about Hawaii. I met many people from Winnipeg there. A direct flight would probably work, but I would rather have 1 connection and a lower price (because it's 4 tickets for me).

It is primarily accommodations that are expensive there, not New York City or London expensive, but much more than Mexico or Florida for example. Restaurant meals and groceries are priced roughly the same as here (except milk which is more than double the price that it is here) but alcohol is much cheaper as are...macadamia nuts!

There used to be a non-stop flight from Winnipeg to Honolulu in the 70s and 80s with Wardair and CP Air may also have had one at one time. Not sure it would be profitable with today's fare structures. I've seen good fares of late, from $550 return on AC on selected late summer and fall dates

[esquire]

^ I find food to be quite expensive in Hawaii... it doesn't take that much in the shopping cart to run up a $250 US grocery bill. Restaurants aren't cheap either. I love Hawaii but there are definitely cheaper sun destinations that offer nice beaches and relaxation, and that's what any potential Hawaii nonstop flights are up against.

In any event, I'm not sure why nonstop flights to Hawaii are considered any bigger of a deal than flights to Cancun, Punta Cana, Jamaica, etc. Maui is a sun destination much like any other.

[plrh]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

It is primarily accommodations that are expensive there, not New York City or London expensive, but much more than Mexico or Florida for example. Restaurant meals and groceries are priced roughly the same as here (except milk which is more than double the price that it is here) but alcohol is much cheaper as are...macadamia nuts!

There used to be a non-stop flight from Winnipeg to Honolulu in the 70s and 80s with Wardair and CP Air may also have had one at one time. Not sure it would be profitable with today's fare structures. I've seen good fares of late, from $550 return on AC on selected late summer and fall dates

I was talking to a girl on the flight out, and she was bringing a tent and was planning on sleeping on the beach. I wonder how that turned out. She wasn't poor either, she paid for the extra internet usage on the flight. Just a crazy millennial.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by plrh

I was talking to a girl on the flight out, and she was bringing a tent and was planning on sleeping on the beach. I wonder how that turned out. She wasn't poor either, she paid for the extra internet usage on the flight. Just a crazy millennial.

I know a professional couple who did exactly that too. Personally I'd rather just go to a lower-cost destination than tent on the beach, but that's just me.

[CoryB]

Well the dream of a WS flight direct from Winnipeg to Hawaii is all but dead. They had a horrible quarter and cut massive numbers of flights. YWG got hit with few dailys to YYZ and some changes to Palm Springs. Not even YYC escaped the cuts.

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by CoryB

H

In terms of Allergiant v Flair v others. With Vegas my experience is the true savings aren't so much on the airfare side but rather the complete vacation package. Often the airlines, especially the ultra low cost ones, have deals with hotels, etc that they will bring in so many people at a set time. In return they get a discount over the retail prices. The airline keeps a cut of that discount obviously but also passes some of it on so the end customers are getting deals that are otherwise not available.

I've been to Vegas a few times and I do have friends who drove to the US to take Allegiant and even though they rave about the cheap price, it never made sense to me. The packages I've bought with flights/hotel (and sometimes extras) either beat the price or were close enough that it made it an easy decision to fly Westjet and know I didnt need to drive home after my vacation.

One friend that does it all the time does so because he gambles and often gets comped rooms so he's saving on the flight. And others are a family where they find it cheaper.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

I've been to Vegas a few times and I do have friends who drove to the US to take Allegiant and even though they rave about the cheap price, it never made sense to me. The packages I've bought with flights/hotel (and sometimes extras) either beat the price or were close enough that it made it an easy decision to fly Westjet and know I didnt need to drive home after my vacation..

That's not my experience. For example, for September departures the best I can see with Westjet is about $450 return with connections (7 to 8 hour travel time incl. the stopover) and about $850 return with the out Thursday back Sunday non-stops.

By comparison, the Allegiant non-stops from GFK can be purchased for $128 return ($170 Canadian). For two people that's $900 vs $340. That $560 savings will easily cover the cost of a Strip hotel for 3 or 4 nights, which is the typical length of time people spend in Vegas as well as the gas. And the drive is nothing, 2 to 2 1/2 hours, barely farther than Brandon and GFK parking is very inexpensive and as an added bonus you can hit the stores on the way home.

Same price, $128 return to Phoenix (Mesa) as well.

[jmt18325]

But, then you'd have to fly on Allegiant.

[buzzg]

If I could add a direct flight to anywhere, it'd be somewhere in the Bay Area. Not having a direct flight to Silicon Valley is becoming a big hindrance to the tech industry here, and any businesses trying to get venture capital and funding from SV companies.