89 Park Street | ? | 2x31 fl | Proposed

[LikeHamilton]

From a recent Forge and Foster email

58 York Blvd selling to local developer Belmont Equity for $12,500,000/acre by Philpott Memorial Church, and then Philpott Memorial Church purchasing downtown land for $12,800,000/acre at 180 King St E.

Philpott Memorial Church purchasing the Lincoln Alexander Theatre downtown. As noted last week, Philpott Memorial sold downtown land for $12,500,000/acre and purchased another parcel, closer to the theatre for, $12,800,000/acre.

180 King Street East is next to Jet Cafe.

[Innsertnamehere]

It looks like they are selling their current lot for development just to... buy another lot for holding income from the parking?

Churches love commercial lots as they don't have to pay property taxes on the land or any income from it so it's great money to support the congregation.

It's a shame because they hold key development sites for years and rarely move on them. Their new lot is right on the LRT and is a prime development site but will likely sit as a parking lot for a while still now that they own it.

It's the same thing in Toronto, a couple of prime development sites on the east end of downtown are owned by churches and never get developed. They are basically the last surface lots in the city without active development applications at this point.

[TheHonestMaple]

Funny, I was just walking past this lot the other day and wondered when a condo would get built there.... right on the new LRT line. Unfortunate to hear it will likely sit as parking, unless the Church has a plan to make some money off it and flip it to a potential developer.

[johnnyhamont]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

It looks like they are selling their current lot for development

Seems like they formalized their sale the same week that HUPEG talked to the Spec about wanting to relocate the shelter at the Booth Centre. Coincidence?

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by johnnyhamont

Seems like they formalized their sale the same week that HUPEG talked to the Spec about wanting to relocate the shelter at the Booth Centre. Coincidence?

The article for those that missed it.

If we got a shiny new condo tower on the location of the mens shelter and also a development that incorporated the church, it would completely change the look and feel of York in that area. Hate to say it, but that shelter really needs to go to a more suitable location.

This would be incredible. Let's hope you're onto something Johnny.

[TheRitsman]

Kind of sucks the York St property got sold to such a blegh real estate company. They seem to build a bunch of suburban garbage. Look forward to, shoppers drug Mart, or crappy hotel with surface parking, or some plaza like downtown Hamilton is stuck in the 1960s.

Maybe this will be their first foray into decent quality urban development, but first developments are always mediocre because they've got to play it safe and build up equity.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

Kind of sucks the York St property got sold to such a blegh real estate company. They seem to build a bunch of suburban garbage. Look forward to, shoppers drug Mart, or crappy hotel with surface parking, or some plaza like downtown Hamilton is stuck in the 1960s.

Maybe this will be their first foray into decent quality urban development, but first developments are always mediocre because they've got to play it safe and build up equity.

They don't have it advertised on their site but they are actually partnering with Coletara on a lot of projects downtown already. I believe they are involved in Apex Condos, for example.

[Pulkvedis Pods]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Churches love commercial lots as they don't have to pay property taxes on the land or any income from it so it's great money to support the congregation.

You sure about this? Charitable status is very carefully scrutinized. An income-generating property that doesn't serve the charitable organization's primary function/mandate couldn't be tax-exempt, could it??

[craftbeerdad]

Really hoping the church is speculating on the 180 King ST E parking lot because that's prime land for development (commercial or residential). No one builds churches anymore and income generation seems silly at this location unless they're buying it for film usage (film crews park here and/or film here a lot), I can't see another reason. It's never full.

[ScreamingViking]

Sold. And the church bought the Lincoln Alexander Centre to move there, plus adjacent units.

Hopefully 2 years from now the buyer can begin redevelopment very soon after the church moves out. Can the new owner proceed with the planning and submit documents to the city before then? Or do they need to wait until the property is vacant?


Downtown Hamilton’s Philpott congregation sells York Boulevard church
Buyer has plans for high-density, mixed-use development

https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilto...rd-church.html

Teviah Moro
The Hamilton Spectator
Tue., Jan. 25, 2022



After 120 years, Philpott Memorial Church is leaving York Boulevard but staying in downtown Hamilton.

The congregation has sold the majestic, grey, brick sanctuary and purchased the former Lincoln Alexander Centre on King Street East.

The move just a few blocks away will help the church continue its mission to help vulnerable people in the core, lead pastor Russell Bartlett said Monday.

“Our heart is in the downtown,” Bartlett said.

Meanwhile, purchaser Aaron Collina plans to turn the church property into a high-density, mixed-use development.

The sale price was “well over” $11 million per acre, John MacNamara of Blair Blanchard Stapleton said via email but declined to disclose the exact figure.

At 2.76 acres, it’s the largest downtown development land sale since 2019, said MacNamara, who noted the deal involved seven properties, six parties and three brokerages but didn’t detail each one.

It’s too early to say whether the church will be incorporated into the final design of the Collina’s development, he added.

...

Ultimately, the congregation decided it made more sense to sell and relocate to 160 King St. E., the site of the Lincoln Alexander Centre, Bartlett said.

The church also bought two neighbouring commercial buildings: 164 and 168 King St. E.

As part of the deal, the congregation can remain at 84 York Blvd. until 2024, giving it time to complete renovations at its future sanctuary.

...

full story here

[TheHonestMaple]

In under 5 years this area is going to be totally unrecognizable.

[Innsertnamehere]

they can get approvals while Philpott is still there. We'll probably see a site plan application here in the next few months.

[ScreamingViking]

Totally unrecognizable indeed! Between this, FOC, Hamilton Centre redevelopment, plus whatever HUPEG does with the lots they got from the city -- so much change in what's been a relatively sleepy part of the core for sooooo long (and given the sleepiness of the rest of downtown from the 1980s to a few years ago that's saying something!)

Thanks re: approvals. Hopefully the new owner does something, and hasn't just promised to do something, as we've seen with some other church purchases. With all the other stuff happening property values will rise, so I worry it was just bought to be flipped once the building/site is worth even more.

[TheRitsman]

I kind of always hoped this would be used as a music venue... I hope they incorporate the building in some way. It's kind of a beautiful building with a great presence on the street.

I wonder if the property sale includes the parking lot adjacent to the building, or the parking lot on the other side of Park. I know the church owns at least one of those. If it sold the parking lot beside, that could be the mixed use section attached to the older church.

[Innsertnamehere]

My understanding is that it includes the parking lot to the north of the church at Park and Vine.

[TheHonestMaple]

I just hope the planned sharp increase in interest rates this year doesn't make all of these projects financially not viable.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I just hope the planned sharp increase in interest rates this year doesn't make all of these projects financially not viable.

Usually these types of projects are not headed by idiot investors trying to time the market or with a bad idea of the market. Not everything always comes to fruition because the margins are modestly tight, but they usually plan very far out to ensure a project is viable any time within the next decade before starting.

This is why reducing costs to developers like removing parking minimums, reducing the requirement for dumb amenity spaces like unused "whisky bar" and 5 party rooms, and shortened approval timelines is a key element to tackling the housing crisis. It would increase the number of projects that become financially viable.

Regardless, they have likely though far ahead of interest rate increases. I think Hamilton is nearing the point of becoming self-sustaining without a huge migration from Toronto and low interest rates. Hamilton has become desirable enough in its own right.

Also the parking lot to the North of this building is massive at nearly 0.325 hectares almost the same size as the Marquee residence old parking lot.

[Chronamut]

Yeah I really hope they incorporate the existing building - it's rather square already so it wouldn't be out of the question to see a condo erupt out the top like some alien monster lol..

Also how many buildings with ionic columns are left in this city..? And isn't this covered under heritage protection and the fact they would have to preserve the facade due to its age, like the william thomas building? Hrmm...

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Yeah I really hope they incorporate the existing building - it's rather square already so it wouldn't be out of the question to see a condo erupt out the top like some alien monster lol..

Also how many buildings with ionic columns are left in this city..? And isn't this covered under heritage protection and the fact they would have to preserve the facade due to its age, like the william thomas building? Hrmm...

It is not a listed property for designation. It is registered though. Even a désignation doesn't protect a building it seems though. The Lyric Century theatre is designated (you'll notice it's an empty field) though I don't know when it was designated, before or after demolition.

[thomax]

Some renderings of what is planned for the site...


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