Tim Hortons Field | 40m | ? | Complete

[Gurnett71]

Originally Posted by BrianE

Could you imagine? Sitting there watching international athletes compete and start to feel something like rain hit the top of your head only to look up and its a black cloud of soot blowing off the coke piles.

Half the reason I like the West Harbour location is that we never ever get a strong wind out of the east. Whatever we do, this stadium has to be to the west or South of the Industrial area.

Prevailing Winds, people! heavy industry isn't going anywhere for a while!

+1

[bigguy1231]

The location has already been decided upon, the West Harbour.

The plan B location is a non starter. The Windemere location is not acceptable for previously mentioned pollution problems.

If the Ti Cats don't like the location, let them leave for greener pastures or build their own stadium. They have not indicated an amount they are willing to contribute so far, so as far as I am concerned they have no say in the process. Besides that, where were they a few months ago when council was making decisions on the location.

Business plans can be developed for any location, all it takes is a little imagination. I can envision the whole area being tranformed with new residential and commercial developements.

If the city goes ahead and builds a stadium with only 15,000 seats then they might as well not even bother. Anything less than 30,000 seats is a waste of money. Why build something that will be of no real use in the future. For me 30,000 is the minimum, I would prefer 40,000. If we are going to build it lets do it right and build for the future and not for the present.

[realcity]

To host the Grey Cup min. 30k seats

[emge]

I like West Harbour. I hope they don't allow the dissenting voices to push it to the so-called inevitable Airport location.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

If the city goes ahead and builds a stadium with only 15,000 seats then they might as well not even bother. Anything less than 30,000 seats is a waste of money. Why build something that will be of no real use in the future. For me 30,000 is the minimum, I would prefer 40,000. If we are going to build it lets do it right and build for the future and not for the present.

Agreed. I am also concerned that it will be built on too small a budget and the city will have to live with it for decades.

[drpgq]

I'm glad the Cats finally came forward with who their business partners objecting to the West Harbour site actually are. I figured it wasn't DeLuca roofing. I am skeptical that Primus has that much money to come up with major cash for naming rights, but I could be wrong.

[geoff's two cents]

Originally Posted by BrianE

I don't know why Windermere Road keeps getting mentioned. I drive by there regularly when exiting onto Burlington St. It's digusting, you would have to pay me to sit a hot afternoon at that location without a breathing mask.

Not only that but this helpful link from Raisethehammer.org to the Hamilton Stacks Blog. Shows that area gets blasted like a shotgun on a regular basis by discharges from Stelco and Dofasco and a dozen other properties to the west of it

Could you imagine? Sitting there watching international athletes compete and start to feel something like rain hit the top of your head only to look up and its a black cloud of soot blowing off the coke piles.

Half the reason I like the West Harbour location is that we never ever get a strong wind out of the east. Whatever we do, this stadium has to be to the west or South of the Industrial area.

Prevailing Winds, people! heavy industry isn't going anywhere for a while!

Thank you for mentioning this! I once made the mistake of going for a jog in the HAAA park during my time in the Hammer on a smog day. My performance was half of what it normally was, and I felt abnormally fatigued and even a little ill afterward. Somehow, the idea of exerting myself to tthe utmost athletically (or watching others do so) next to a smoke stack doesn't appeal to me. Then again, I'm an outsider; what do I know?

[adam]

A world class stadium attracts people from neighbouring areas and needs to be close to a highway. The only reasonable place to put a stadium in my mind is as close as possible to the 403. Any other location buried in the downtown away from a major route is going to be a bizarre experiment with unexpected results and side-effects.

If the stadium does get built so far away from the 403, it will be the perpetual reason that suburban councillors use to avoid turning any more downtown streets into 2-way pedestrian friendly areas in the future.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by adam

A world class stadium attracts people from neighbouring areas and needs to be close to a highway. The only reasonable place to put a stadium in my mind is as close as possible to the 403. Any other location buried in the downtown away from a major route is going to be a bizarre experiment with unexpected results and side-effects.

If the stadium does get built so far away from the 403, it will be the perpetual reason that suburban councillors use to avoid turning any more downtown streets into 2-way pedestrian friendly areas in the future.

The West Harbour location has fairly good access to the 403 via York Blvd and to a lesser extent King St.

What many opposed to the West Harbour location fail to realize is that the city will improve the streets leading to the stadium for easier access to and from the East- West thoroughfares.

The whole arguement about access to the location is just a red herring. Transportation routes will be improved whether they be improvements to roads or better public transportation.

[hamiltonguy]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

The West Harbour location has fairly good access to the 403 via York Blvd and to a lesser extent King St.

What many opposed to the West Harbour location fail to realize is that the city will improve the streets leading to the stadium for easier access to and from the East- West thoroughfares.

The whole arguement about access to the location is just a red herring. Transportation routes will be improved whether they be improvements to roads or better public transportation.

Also easy access to QEW via Burlington Street semi-expressway and Bay street.

[realcity]

Ivor Wynne also has easy access to QEW via Burlington Street semi-expressway. Plus Canon, Wilson, Barton and Main *semi-expressway*. And Ottawa, Gage and Sherman, for north/south access.

No one ever complains about getting to Ivor Wynne and parking. So I don't see how this location will have a problem with accessibility.

[realcity]

You know these home owners are screwed with the soil tests. For some $1500 is a lot of money, but compared to loss of house value, it pales. I hope they get some good lawyers. Before they agree to the soil test, they should have a contract that says, the house is worth X$ and if the stadium is not built here and the house drops in value *because it's revealed the land is toxic*, the City still owes them X$.

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by realcity

I haven't heard the term eminent domain come up yet. If the City was serious, then why not just execute eminent domain before soil tests.

You know these home owners are screwed with the soil tests. For some $1500 is a lot of money, but compared to loss of house value, it pales. I hope they get some good lawyers. Before they agree to the soil test, they should have a contract that says, the house is worth X$ and if the stadium is not built here and the house drops in value *because it's revealed the land is toxic*, the City still owes them X$.

Of course the tests will reveal the land these houses sit on is toxic. If it's needs $37 million to clean the land across the street, what do you think? 50 feet away the house is sitting on a natural pure wellspring.?? duh.. Toxins don't know about property borders. Forget about it, this location will not happen, total epic FUBAR fail.

I don't understand why the city is jumping the gun on the West Harbour Location when the Tiger Cats haven't completed a business case or shown support for it yet. The TC's support is essential in this process. I have a feeling these home owners are going to get screwed over - The Ti Cats are not going to accept this location and the soil tests will have been done and revealed the land is contaminated.

I just hope if it pans out this way that the city will commit to buying the houses anyways, at least giving the owners the option of selling at a fair price.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by crhayes

I don't understand why the city is jumping the gun on the West Harbour Location when the Tiger Cats haven't completed a business case or shown support for it yet. The TC's support is essential in this process. I have a feeling these home owners are going to get screwed over - The Ti Cats are not going to accept this location and the soil tests will have been done and revealed the land is contaminated.

I just hope if it pans out this way that the city will commit to buying the houses anyways, at least giving the owners the option of selling at a fair price.

The stadium is being built for the Pan Am games not the Ti Cats. I know they will be the primary tenant, but until they indicate how much money they may contribute they have no say in the process.

If the Ti Cats were so concerned about where the stadium was going to be built they should have got involved in the process back in the Fall when the discussions were taking place. The whole process is time sensitive, the city can't be sitting on their hands waiting for the Cats to decide what they want.

As for the homeowners, they don't have to let the city on their property to test.

Why would the city buy the properties, if they are found to be contaminated. Then the city would be responsible for the cleanup costs. The whole idea of testing is to determine if the area is contaminated so they can figure out what it is going to cost to clean it up. If it is going to cost too much they will look at alternate locations.

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

The stadium is being built for the Pan Am games not the Ti Cats. I know they will be the primary tenant, but until they indicate how much money they may contribute they have no say in the process.

If the Ti Cats were so concerned about where the stadium was going to be built they should have got involved in the process back in the Fall when the discussions were taking place. The whole process is time sensitive, the city can't be sitting on their hands waiting for the Cats to decide what they want.

As for the homeowners, they don't have to let the city on their property to test.

Why would the city buy the properties, if they are found to be contaminated. Then the city would be responsible for the cleanup costs. The whole idea of testing is to determine if the area is contaminated so they can figure out what it is going to cost to clean it up. If it is going to cost too much they will look at alternate locations.

If the TC's aren't involved in this project what's the point? It's going to be a legacy project built for a 2 week (?) event and never used again? Great way to please the taxpayers...

And yes this is time sensitive, but we have approximately 4 more years to build it; there is ample time for a proper analysis and business case.

And yes the residents have the option of letting the city test their soil, but let's face it, $1500 for someone in that neighbourhood is likely a significant amount of money, how many people are not going to consider it? Not only that, but it only takes one positive test for contamination to seriously diminish the value of the entire neighbourhood. You honestly don't think one person will allow the test?

Why should the city be responsible? I guess that's my socialist attitude, not thinking it's fair those people should get stuck with a worthless piece of property.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by crhayes

If the TC's aren't involved in this project what's the point? It's going to be a legacy project built for a 2 week (?) event and never used again? Great way to please the taxpayers...

And yes this is time sensitive, but we have approximately 4 more years to build it; there is ample time for a proper analysis and business case.

And yes the residents have the option of letting the city test their soil, but let's face it, $1500 for someone in that neighbourhood is likely a significant amount of money, how many people are not going to consider it? Not only that, but it only takes one positive test for contamination to seriously diminish the value of the entire neighbourhood. You honestly don't think one person will allow the test?

Why should the city be responsible? I guess that's my socialist attitude, not thinking it's fair those people should get stuck with a worthless piece of property.

The Ti Cats had their chance. Bob Young decided not to get involved. He said he could live with whatever the decision was.

True they have 4 years to build it, but the organizing committee wants the plans firmed up as soon as possible.

As for the residents of the area, I really don't care. Most of those homes are dumps and should have been bulldozed a long time ago. Besides that, if I lived in one of those homes I would want to know if the property I lived on was contaminated. The properties in that area are pretty much worthless with or without the soil tests, so why not test to confirm one way or another. If the tests are negative for contaminents it might even get them a few more dollars once the city moves to purchase them.

With your socialist leanings you should know all about the greater good. In this case the plight of 60 property owners does not outweigh the potential benefits that the rest of the citizens of this city will get from building these facilities.

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

The Ti Cats had their chance. Bob Young decided not to get involved. He said he could live with whatever the decision was.

True they have 4 years to build it, but the organizing committee wants the plans firmed up as soon as possible.

As for the residents of the area, I really don't care. Most of those homes are dumps and should have been bulldozed a long time ago. Besides that, if I lived in one of those homes I would want to know if the property I lived on was contaminated. The properties in that area are pretty much worthless with or without the soil tests, so why not test to confirm one way or another. If the tests are negative for contaminents it might even get them a few more dollars once the city moves to purchase them.

With your socialist leanings you should know all about the greater good. In this case the plight of 60 property owners does not outweigh the potential benefits that the rest of the citizens of this city will get from building these facilities.

Yes this is really socialist, lets f^$% the poor people over even more so we can give back to the middle and upper class. Good reasoning.

[heart7broken]

Good morning all,

Can anyone tell me that: - Which resident houses on which streets will be re-locate for the West Harbour Pan American Stadium ?

I heard Hess, Queen, and even Oxford streets has to be clear out for making entry road to the Stadium . Is this true or just rumors ? I am quite confuse here. Please help !

Thanks!

[SteelTown]

I believe Grieg to Bay St from Staurt St to Barton. I also believe homes at Hess to Caroline from Barton to Windsor Dr as well. Believe it's about 40-ish homes.

[heart7broken]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I believe Grieg to Bay St from Staurt St to Barton. I also believe homes at Hess to Caroline from Barton to Windsor Dr as well. Believe it's about 40-ish homes.

Hello SteelTown,

Which side of Grieg (on Queen St. North) do you mean ? Is it going to go beyond Little Grieg to Cannon St. or not ? Do you have a map to specify ?

Many thanks!