Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

The only things that do are economic depression or substantial road pricing.

I'm not calling for us to solve gridlock, i'm calling for us to improve mobility.

Mobility would be more improved in the GVR if they could run commuter trains to more places more often.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Mobility would be more improved in the GVR if they could run commuter trains to more places more often.

So true:
imagine the Current Westcoast express running all day.
A central Fraser Valley line .... Abby and Chiliwack ....
and a branch to the southern suburbs along the US border, notably Surrey.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Mobility would be more improved in the GVR if they could run commuter trains to more places more often.

Well of course it would. And I'l also like 100 million dollars...

Bottom line is we have the rail we have and for the health of the region's economy what we have is best allocated to primarily freight.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well of course it would. And I'l also like 100 million dollars...

Bottom line is we have the rail we have and for the health of the region's economy what we have is best allocated to primarily freight.

If that's the case, why even bother with any new Skytrain.

We could build a bigger bridge. We could add more track.We could put stations where they would service people.

[LeftCoaster]

Absolutely, we should add more track if there is a sensible solution. I'm just pointing out that running commuter trains on existing track is difficult to impossible given the current industrial/commercial demand.

Like I said before I'm all for expanding our transit and commuter rail, just not at the expense of the port.

[casper]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

.....

I did not say, nor would suggest closing the Port of Vancouver down. I am suggesting that having another year round ice free deep water port on the west coast that can aleve some traffic would be a good thing. I am also suggesting that moving some traffic from the Burrard inlet would also be a good thing.

Prince Rupert is that second port. It provides a better connection between the mid-west (Chicago) and the pacific rim than Vancouver. However there is still going to be traffic in and out of Vancouver. Vancouver will continue to be the major port on the pacific.

The proposal for a major port on Vancouver Island is weird. I have been at events where the groups proposing this have had booths. It all sounds complex. Unload from the ship onto the dock, transfer onto barges, send the barges up and down the west coast. If at some point in the future Vancouver Island gets sufficient industry to support cargo containers to Asia then ok. But that is likely multiple decades into the future. Today most of the cargo ships that dock at ports on Vancouver Island and picking up logs, forest products and other specialty products. Nothing like Vancouver.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Absolutely, we should add more track if there is a sensible solution. I'm just pointing out that running commuter trains on existing track is difficult to impossible given the current industrial/commercial demand.

Like I said before I'm all for expanding our transit and commuter rail, just not at the expense of the port.

Unless train are running with one in every block, there is room for commmuter traffic.

CN, CP and BNSF are the problem. They are the problem in Toronto and Montreal as well. Toronto and Montreal have fought for each mile of each part of their commuter rail system.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Building a commuter rail system does not have to be contingent on reducing port traffic, if we can build a bridge to the island I'm sure we can conceive solutions here.

oh course there are solutions. but they cost tons since the current lines are owned by freight companies and it makes them tons of money. passenger service is a pain, there's a reason CN and CP don't do it anymore.

CP and CN own the "easy" routes into the city already, and one needed to be built by hand over a century ago. tunnels or trenches or property needs to be acquired. no one has the money.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Unless train are running with one in every block, there is room for commmuter traffic.

I think you mean one in every other block. A train can't proceed if the next block is occupied.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Unless train are running with one in every block, there is room for commmuter traffic.

No, there clearly isn't. There isn't even room for the existing WCE which is why the freight companies and the WCE are constantly at eachother.

CN, CP and BNSF may be the problem with providing commuter service, but their goods transportation and the jobs that provides is far more of a public benefit than encouraging more sprawl in Abbotsford.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

No, there clearly isn't. There isn't even room for the existing WCE which is why the freight companies and the WCE are constantly at eachother.

CN, CP and BNSF may be the problem with providing commuter service, but their goods transportation and the jobs that provides is far more of a public benefit than encouraging more sprawl in Abbotsford.

Which is why the Vancouver Harbour shouldn't have freight to begin with. That is one accident away from burning down the downtown core. If you all forgot about this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...onse-1.2983308 , one year ago.

At some point the Lions Gate Bridge is going to be come a bottleneck anyway.

[LeftCoaster]

And we're back to kicking out the port to run a few commuter trains...



Honestly the level of discourse on this forum is really falling off a cliff lately.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Which is why the Vancouver Harbour shouldn't have freight to begin with. That is one accident away from burning down the downtown core. If you all forgot about this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...onse-1.2983308 , one year ago.

At some point the Lions Gate Bridge is going to be come a bottleneck anyway.

This may be a fantasy moot point but hear me out. Has the idea ever been floated to relocate the port facilities that are in downtown Vancouver to a new modern facility south of the Fraser, perhaps in Delta, Surrey or Richmond? Is there space on Westham island or Kirkland island if they built up the land to prevent future flooding?

The reason I think it may be a good idea is they can have a modern facility that isn't surrounded by high density residential and this would be an opportunity to relocate and redistribute the rail network in the lower mainland. It would give the rail companies a lot of cash flow to fund a relocation scheme if they were able to sell a majority of the land they currently use north of the Fraser. Although many residents of Vancouver and the metro area view the port as a hindrance to living in certain areas, the Port really feels the same about all the residential areas blocking it in, I say make the investment in an area where the port has the ability to expand and move goods as freely as possible and it would be beneficial to the port, the rail companies and the residents.

If the port relocated to SOF, it would reduce the amount of land dedicated to rail yards in Vancouver and New Westminster, among other areas in metro Van. There would be a ton of more develop-able land in key areas of the lower mainland and it would be an opportunity to look at completing the North Fraser Perimeter Road if the tracks aren't in the way in New Westminster, allowing for easier Semi truck goods movement, reducing the need for set in stone rail lines that don't directly connect to many businesses anymore.

This could also be a great opportunity to relocate the BC ferries terminal from Horseshoe Bay to where the port facilities are now in Vancouver.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

And we're back to kicking out the port to run a few commuter trains...



Honestly the level of discourse on this forum is really falling off a cliff lately.

Hear me out!

[casper]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

This may be a fantasy moot point but hear me out. Has the idea ever been floated to relocate the port facilities that are in downtown Vancouver to a new modern facility south of the Fraser, perhaps in Delta, Surrey or Richmond? Is there space on Westham island or Kirkland island if they built up the land to prevent future flooding?

The reason I think it may be a good idea is they can have a modern facility that isn't surrounded by high density residential and this would be an opportunity to relocate and redistribute the rail network in the lower mainland. It would give the rail companies a lot of cash flow to fund a relocation scheme if they were able to sell a majority of the land they currently use north of the Fraser. Although many residents of Vancouver and the metro area view the port as a hindrance to living in certain areas, the Port really feels the same about all the residential areas blocking it in, I say make the investment in an area where the port has the ability to expand and move goods as freely as possible and it would be beneficial to the port, the rail companies and the residents.

If the port relocated to SOF, it would reduce the amount of land dedicated to rail yards in Vancouver and New Westminster, among other areas in metro Van. There would be a ton of more develop-able land in key areas of the lower mainland and it would be an opportunity to look at completing the North Fraser Perimeter Road if the tracks aren't in the way in New Westminster, allowing for easier Semi truck goods movement, reducing the need for set in stone rail lines that don't directly connect to many businesses anymore.

This could also be a great opportunity to relocate the BC ferries terminal from Horseshoe Bay to where the port facilities are now in Vancouver.

I don't want to know what is under all the pavement and concrete that make up those port terminals. This industrial and railway land that has been in use for nearly 100 year. Cleaning it up to a standard that it can be used for residential or commercial development is going to a nightmare. Leave it as industrial for another 100 years.

[Metro-One]

Do people understand just how much the Ports north of the Fraser are worth?? Like seriously, billions among billions of dollars in infrastructure, not to mention all of the supporting industrial facilities / services and the billions of dollars invested over the years linking them together.

Seriously, it is so redicilous it is not even worth fantasizing about.

I love how people bitch and moan on here about or economy being far too dependent on real estate / foreign buyers (rightfully so) but then casually talk about uprooting what is arguably our city's largest and most important true industry!

Seriously, Vancouver is port city. Deal with it.

I for one would see the loss of the port, and all its supplement activities, as the death blow for Vancouver as a true economic center.

Not to mention how the Burrard Inlet is a fantastic natural harbour.

And how much waste in material and energy would be needed to do such a massive relatively meaningless relocation (talk about waste!)

And who would pay for all of this?

Too funny.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

This may be a fantasy moot point but hear me out. Has the idea ever been floated to relocate the port facilities that are in downtown Vancouver to a new modern facility south of the Fraser, perhaps in Delta, Surrey or Richmond?

You mean like Roberts Bank?

[casper]

Originally Posted by Sheba

You mean like Roberts Bank?

The reason Roberts Bank was built was because they were running out space in the other facilities and needed more capacity. The proposed expansion at Roberts Bank is again to add more capacity. Same think with Prince Rupert, it is about adding capacity not relocating capacity.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by casper

The reason Roberts Bank was built was because they were running out space in the other facilities and needed more capacity. The proposed expansion at Roberts Bank is again to add more capacity. Same think with Prince Rupert, it is about adding capacity not relocating capacity.

So, if getting rid of capacity is not the answer, what about double decking rail lines? Have these owned by Translink for WCE.