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  #1  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2007, 1:15 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Halifax Transit

It's time for a thread to discuss our mass transit system.

How widespread is over-crowding? The last couple of months have to be the worst I've ever seen in Halifax. The 1, 7, 20, and 52 are all consistently full during rush hour, and many routes are leaving people behind because there is no space. What other routes are busy, and how long until we get some service upgrades to deal with this? I can't remember the last time there was an upgrade on the 1 but this route has been overcapacity for years.
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  #2  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2007, 3:39 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Anybody could tell you why buses are getting more crowded in the last couple of months: school. Routes 1 and 7 are both university routes, the 52 services an NSCC campus in Bayers Lake (and a call centre near Burnside) both of which can be busy at peak times. And of course it only makes sense that routes like the 20 would get busier; all of those univeristy students have to get home.

As far as how Metro Transit is dealing with it, they took delivery of 25 new buses earlier this year and are currently taking delivery of 25 more. Of course that means some of them are for replacements. I know at least 9 buses were retired when the 25 came earlier this year, and I'm expecting at least another 5-10 to be taken out of service in the next few months.
That's still a lot of new buses, so expect some service improvements in the coming months. The next scheduled service improvement is in late November, so if they're going to increase frequency on any routes it would happen then.
I know last August they created a new route 16 Parkland, which goes from the Dartmouth bridge terminal (Sportsplex) to Mount Saint Vincent (and Clayton Park West beyond that) via the MacKay Bridge, something I know a number of people have been asking for for years.

Edit: I forgot to mention there's also rumours of additional MetroLink buses being ordered, with a few possibly being articulated ("bendy" buses). I know they've been pushing for that in Sackville due to heavy loads, and Metro Transit also wants to add MetroLink service to other areas.
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  #3  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2007, 5:11 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Originally Posted by hfx_chris View Post
Anybody could tell you why buses are getting more crowded in the last couple of months: school. Routes 1 and 7 are both university routes, the 52 services an NSCC campus in Bayers Lake (and a call centre near Burnside) both of which can be busy at peak times. And of course it only makes sense that routes like the 20 would get busier; all of those univeristy students have to get home.

As far as how Metro Transit is dealing with it, they took delivery of 25 new buses earlier this year and are currently taking delivery of 25 more. Of course that means some of them are for replacements. I know at least 9 buses were retired when the 25 came earlier this year, and I'm expecting at least another 5-10 to be taken out of service in the next few months.
That's still a lot of new buses, so expect some service improvements in the coming months. The next scheduled service improvement is in late November, so if they're going to increase frequency on any routes it would happen then.
I know last August they created a new route 16 Parkland, which goes from the Dartmouth bridge terminal (Sportsplex) to Mount Saint Vincent (and Clayton Park West beyond that) via the MacKay Bridge, something I know a number of people have been asking for for years.

Edit: I forgot to mention there's also rumours of additional MetroLink buses being ordered, with a few possibly being articulated ("bendy" buses). I know they've been pushing for that in Sackville due to heavy loads, and Metro Transit also wants to add MetroLink service to other areas.
Dave McCusker (head of transportation planning) in HRM spoke at my transportation planning course. New MetroLink routes are not likely within the next year or two the way he was talking. Articulated buses on the MetroLink would be great as ridership continues to grow.

The crowding on the 1 is definetly university students, but I'm not sure it's the major factor on other routes. The 7 is packed with Citadel High students, and the 20 is busiest between Mumford Terminal and Spryfield. There's sometimes 30-40 people getting on the 20 at Mumford. These are only the routes that I know get crowded but there are definetly some peak hour buses coming in from the suburbs that are full up with commuters. Ridership is up across the board.

I'm interested in what they'll do in November. Service upgrades would be great but they've had problems on the 1 for at least a couple of years now but haven't put more capacity on the route. I'm not too optimistic, I think it could be months before they catch up with the capacity problems. Hopefully they stop expanding service for a while to catch up with the problems on their busiest routes.
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  #4  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2007, 5:39 PM
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I find it hard to believe the #1 is overcrowded because it seems to run every 5 minutes or so. Back when I lived downtown it was never very busy because it ran so (I felt TOO) frequently.

By far the worst route in terms of overcrowding over the years has to be the #10, which is simply a torture test for the regular rider. It also serves the universities int he south end, then loops downtown to pick up workers, then heads to Dartmouth and is the only route that serves the area north and east of the Sportsplex such as Woodland, MicMac Mall, and Main street. It is simply ridiculous both in terms of undercapacity and in terms of route design.
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  #5  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2007, 5:58 PM
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MetroLink is so successful, there should be more routes added to different parts of the city. I use the one to and from Portland Hills everyday and ridership is excellent. They aren't to the point of overcrowding yet, but that can change in the near future.

I think a MetroLink terminal in Bedford or Hammonds Plains might be worth the city looking into. But to be honest, it isnt an urgent need. Other issues need more attention right now like adding more busses to the busiest routes.
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  #6  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2007, 6:41 PM
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Has there been any news related to the new ferries? A high speed ferry, if it worked properly, would be the next best thing to commuter rail from Bedford. I think there would be high demand if they connected it properly to buses running out to Hammonds Plains on one side and Sackville/Fall River on the other.
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  #7  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2007, 7:30 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I find it hard to believe the #1 is overcrowded because it seems to run every 5 minutes or so. Back when I lived downtown it was never very busy because it ran so (I felt TOO) frequently.

By far the worst route in terms of overcrowding over the years has to be the #10, which is simply a torture test for the regular rider. It also serves the universities int he south end, then loops downtown to pick up workers, then heads to Dartmouth and is the only route that serves the area north and east of the Sportsplex such as Woodland, MicMac Mall, and Main street. It is simply ridiculous both in terms of undercapacity and in terms of route design.
The 1 runs every ten minutes in peak times, and every 15 minutes most of the rest of the day. And yes it's definetly overcrowded during peak times. People are consistently left behind most rush hours on the section along Coburg Rd. near Dal. It's really bad if it's low-floor buses, but people are still sometimes left behind on the older buses. The 1 is the only bus route in the city that covers it's costs.

Haven't ridden the 10 before but if it serves that large an area it makes sense it's crowded. That's a long way to go on a packed bus from downtown or the universities.
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  #8  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2007, 10:26 PM
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10 Westphal is definitely packed between 3:30-6pm. I usually catch the #1 past peek hours so it is usually never too full when I get on. # 52 runs frequently during the evening rushhour, so the only time it is really full is when Converges has a major change in shifts.
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  #9  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2007, 7:50 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Has there been any news related to the new ferries? A high speed ferry, if it worked properly, would be the next best thing to commuter rail from Bedford. I think there would be high demand if they connected it properly to buses running out to Hammonds Plains on one side and Sackville/Fall River on the other.
I think a high speed ferry would be better than commuter rail: similar speeds on a more direct route.

The city is trying to get a higher level of government to partner with them to help cover the initial costs. I wouldn't expect anything soon.
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  #10  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2007, 8:09 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I created a thread for the fast ferry.
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  #11  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2007, 10:36 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Yes but ferries are limited to servicing certain areas, namely areas adjacent to water. Ferries can't serve Timberlea, Beaver Bank, Windsor Junction/Fall River or Hammonds Plains.
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  #12  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2007, 10:55 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I'm all for rail that would support the whole HRM, the city would seem alot more accessible... and living in Amsterdam, I could really see it work the way it does here. I basically get to school that would be as far away as bedford from my place in the peninsula in halifax, except its a 25 minute metro here that mostly winds outside of the city. In halifax, good luck doing that on a bus in any time close to that.
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  #13  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2007, 10:56 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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And almost all of it is above ground, a likely solution for Halifax. How many years away do you think this kind of thing is for Halifax??
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  #14  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2007, 4:45 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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And almost all of it is above ground, a likely solution for Halifax. How many years away do you think this kind of thing is for Halifax??
We're a long ways from any LRT at this point. We still don't even have a BRT system, just two suburban routes that have very limited BRT capabilites.

We should start reserving corridors for BRT routes connecting off the peninsula. If we start using dedicated right of ways where possible and transit priority signals and queue jumping lanes than we can get decent speed out of buses and avoid congestion, which are the major advantages that rail has over buses.

After that we wait thirty years until the population densities can support rails along our transit corridors. I really don't see Halifax with rail anytime soon.
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  #15  
Old Posted Oct 31, 2007, 6:11 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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I'd love to see a rail system in Halifax. A simple above ground Metro type of system, like what I think WorldyHaligonian describes in Amsterdam. Most stations need not be expensive; they can be simple central platforms with a bit of shelter. Then we could get a few of those nice Bombardier trains, just 2 cars apiece. Maybe we could get a deal on them if we bought them in Maine and then shipped them across the border
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  #16  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 1:03 AM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly View Post
We're a long ways from any LRT at this point. We still don't even have a BRT system, just two suburban routes that have very limited BRT capabilites.

We should start reserving corridors for BRT routes connecting off the peninsula. If we start using dedicated right of ways where possible and transit priority signals and queue jumping lanes than we can get decent speed out of buses and avoid congestion, which are the major advantages that rail has over buses.
Our BRT system (and yes it is a BRT system) does in fact have bus-only and queue jumping lanes, as well as transit priority lights. Not many, but they're there. Dedicated right-of-ways, now that would be a treat which would never happen, there just isn't enough room. We don't have the space for something like, say Ottawa's Transitway.
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  #17  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 3:22 AM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Originally Posted by hfx_chris View Post
Our BRT system (and yes it is a BRT system) does in fact have bus-only and queue jumping lanes, as well as transit priority lights. Not many, but they're there. Dedicated right-of-ways, now that would be a treat which would never happen, there just isn't enough room. We don't have the space for something like, say Ottawa's Transitway.
We have two "BRT" lines that don't even bring you to all the major employment areas on the peninsula (no dockyards, no hospitals, no universities). The Portland Hills line relies very heavily on park-and-ride, and almost all trips are from Portland Hills to Downtown. It's great the MetroLink is so popular but it really only helps a small percentage of transit users.

In my mind the Link is an express service packaged as BRT. I realize that dedicated ROWs aren't possible in this city, however the Link only has a couple of queue-jump lanes and some priority intersections. That's pretty low on the BRT scale. It saves about six minutes on the trip from Portland Hills.
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  #18  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 3:29 AM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
I'd love to see a rail system in Halifax. A simple above ground Metro type of system, like what I think WorldyHaligonian describes in Amsterdam. Most stations need not be expensive; they can be simple central platforms with a bit of shelter. Then we could get a few of those nice Bombardier trains, just 2 cars apiece. Maybe we could get a deal on them if we bought them in Maine and then shipped them across the border
Personally if I'm building an expensive light rail system it's going to have killer stations. The biggest benefit of LRT to me is it's ability to direct development. Many cities have had tremendous success creating redevelopment along LRT corridors, whether development takes place near stations on grade seperated lines, or along street level LRT lines. For a city of Halifax I don't see huge speed benefits to LRT over because most rail-lines couldn't be on seperate right of ways, so I would put lots of money into making a statement with the physical infrastructure. You'd get the money back in new investment along the routes.
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  #19  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 3:49 AM
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Why can't a rail line have its own ROW? The city owns the streets, and a single lane dedicated to rail can move far more people than one lane for car traffic, not to mention the fact that the rail line makes it possible to remove buses, making everything flow much better.

Like I said, I've never seen any evidence that adequate thought has gone into this, despite the number of studies that the regional council likes to commission.

Streetcars and electrified buses should also be considered. What about running a streetcar out to the universities and hospitals from the downtown or along Robie Street? A streetcar along Brunswick/Gottingen? An electrified route for the 1?
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  #20  
Old Posted Nov 1, 2007, 10:12 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Ah, how I love your ideas of having electric trolliecoaches and/or trams running in Halifax again... but I think just getting an LRT line would be enough of an accomplishment. I doubt however we'll see any overhead lines or power poles any time soon, probably everything would be diesel anyway.
Oh, except that Metro Transit has ordered (or will be ordering) two diesel-electric hybrid buses supposedly for a new downtown shuttle route (not free like FRED) that would link the ferry terminal with places like Spring Garden, SMU & Dal and the hospitals.

But I think what Hillbilly was referring to with rail right-of-ways is that the rail line that comes into Halifax around the basin and through the west end is only one set of tracks, and would need special sidings built so trains could pass each other at certain locations, not to mention how would you work it around existing CN and VIA rail traffic. They would basically need to build a second line parallel to the first... would have been a lot easier had the city not let CN tear the second line up a few years back.
Ottawa's O-Train is one set of tracks the entire way except for the middle station at Carleton University, where the trains are timed to pass each other.
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