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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 1:01 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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The only benefit would be that lines could run directly from neighbourhoods through the bus lanes to other areas but transfers to rail are a minor complication and right now the complexity and inefficiency of current bus routes is a major drawback.
I think that is an enormous benefit. Tranfers may be a minor inconvenience but they can add significant time to a trip which makes transit less desireable.

Regardless of whether you build a BRT network, LRT lines, or do neither the bus routes definetly need to be totally rebuilt. Whether you rebuild them around BRT or LRT is moot in my mind.
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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 5:30 PM
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Not many cities start out with perfect ROWs for a new transit system. I agree that some kind of hybrid approach would be good. I think an ideal line might be partly in traffic and then partly in its own ROW. Some money might be spent in key areas to avoid traffic and therefore speed up the trips considerably. In Halifax traffic is mostly bad because of a few bottlenecks.

Streetcars are a lot nicer than buses, and electrified buses are somewhat nicer than diesel (and possibly cheaper to run?). They also feel like more permanent infrastructure than bus lines and make densification and car-free day to day living much more attractive. I think a case could be made for converting a couple of routes such as the 1.

When it comes to electrified buses, Halifax was actually the first city in NA to fully switch over and for a while I think it had the biggest fleet. There was also of course a large streetcar network before that, and many streets still have buried track and cobblestone.
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 7:34 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I find it amazing that Halifax once had a streetcar system, it sounds so urban.
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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 7:49 PM
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Here is an old picture from the Westen Hotel.


You can see the street car on Hollis. Amazing that such a backwater city like Halifax(more so pre-1950) had street cars.
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  #45  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 8:11 PM
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One big problem with those streetcars was that they were very small.

There are a bunch of trolley bus pictures here: http://www.trolleybuses.net/hfx/hfx.htm

Here's an older streetcar picture. Can anybody identify this scene? Maybe it was around the hospitals?
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  #46  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 10:22 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Not that amazing, skyscraper. Streetcar/tram systems were very popular back then, a lot of cities were operating them. And you're correct in that Halifax was one of the only cities in North America to be 100% electric for so long, whether the little Birneys pictured above or the electric trolleycoaches from 1950-1969.
Anyway, the history of Halifax's transit systems (and present transit system) is a huge interest for me, and I could go on about that for a while, but we need to think about the present (and future) and I doubt we're going to see electric trollycoaches any time soon (much to my disappointment). On top of that I doubt we would ever see an electrified light rail system either, as I can pretty much guarantee you it would be diesel. Ottawa's O-Train (which I'm getting tired of making references to, but it really should be a model for Halifax to use) is diesel and is just fine.


Somebody needs to create a light rail topic... this going back and forth between two different topics to talk about light rail is getting confusing.
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  #47  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2007, 11:55 PM
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One big problem with those streetcars was that they were very small.

There are a bunch of trolley bus pictures here: http://www.trolleybuses.net/hfx/hfx.htm
That's an interesting link, to see the buildings in the background as much as anything. In the ad from Ohio Brass there is a nice-looking building with an awning over the sidewalk that I cannot identify. Any ideas? Several of the pics at Brunswick and Duke show the site where Scotia Square now stands, with the old market/police station (I believe so, anyway) on Brunswick quite prominent.

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Here's an older streetcar picture. Can anybody identify this scene? Maybe it was around the hospitals?
Something is telling me it's more west end. That building in the background looks like a school. But the Imperial/Esso station on the other side baffles me.
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2007, 12:41 AM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I think its Chebucto Rd. near St. Matthias St.
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  #49  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2007, 1:14 AM
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By building with awnings do you mean the one that says "Zellers"? That's on Barrington Street where the Discovery Centre is currently located. The Green Lantern building is next door. Sadly, pictures from the 50s and 60s make it pretty clear that Barrington has declined considerably. Then again, other parts of the city were much less developed back then.
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  #50  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2007, 1:04 AM
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By building with awnings do you mean the one that says "Zellers"?
Nope, that one was obvious. It's the building here:

http://www.trolleybuses.net/hfx/htm/..._195106_bt.htm
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2007, 1:29 AM
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Oh.. I would assume that's the Lord Nelson.
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2007, 3:28 AM
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Yeah...I would say that is the Lord Nelson for sure
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2007, 8:10 PM
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There are a bunch of trolley bus pictures here: http://www.trolleybuses.net/hfx/hfx.htm
Resurrecting this thread to offer an artifact of our city's past that I discovered today.

The Nova Scotia Light and Power Brill electric coaches ran from 1949 to 1969. I grew up in the 60s and remember quite well taking them to go to movies, school, etc. They had yellow and silver paint schemes -- you couldn't miss one.

There used to be a coach that ran along Agricola St. When they went to diesel Halifax Transit buses that route was dropped. I recall a fair amount of controversy at the time about the Agricola neighborhood losing it's route, although in reality neither Robie nor Gottingen is all that far away.

Anyway, back to the present. Today I parked on Agricola St in front of C&R Auto Parts, just south of Charles St. When I walked to the curb I noticed something that took me back 37 years.

In front of C&R, the strip between the curb and sidewalk that is normally grass was instead concrete. Old concrete. That was what used to be done at trolley coach stops. And then I saw it: the curb itself had remnants of old yellow paint in it. In some places it was quite distinct, others were worn away, but it was quite apparent. And that is how NSL&P used to mark their stops, by painting the curbs yellow to match the coaches.

Amazing -- that must have been one helluva good paint they used.
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2007, 11:13 PM
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That is interesting. I've also heard that in the 70s there were bizarre purple bus shelters (?) and that you can find one of them in Mount Uniacke, but that was a few years ago so it may be gone now.

I am living in Vancouver at the moment and my area is still served by electric trolleybuses. They are much nicer than diesel (smoother, quieter, and no emissions) and presumably cost less to run but I don't know how expensive it is to install the wires. The other limitation is that of course buses must then follow the overhead lines, although I think some are both electric and diesel.
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 3, 2007, 11:36 PM
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That is interesting. I've also heard that in the 70s there were bizarre purple bus shelters (?) and that you can find one of them in Mount Uniacke, but that was a few years ago so it may be gone now.
Yep, they were certainly unique. Purple, white and orange were the Halifax Transit colors back in the '70s and the shelters matched that. Their early efforts were fiberglass or plastic "pod" shelters. They had elongated oval shaped windows. Hard to describe, but they looked vaguely nautical, something like those survival pods you see on oil rigs. Either that, or like a spaceship. Wish I could find a picture of one.
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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2007, 1:07 AM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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In front of C&R, the strip between the curb and sidewalk that is normally grass was instead concrete. Old concrete. That was what used to be done at trolley coach stops. And then I saw it: the curb itself had remnants of old yellow paint in it. In some places it was quite distinct, others were worn away, but it was quite apparent. And that is how NSL&P used to mark their stops, by painting the curbs yellow to match the coaches.
Wow. Looks like I'm taking a trip to Agricola next time I have some free time. Thanks for noting that!

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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Yep, they were certainly unique. Purple, white and orange were the Halifax Transit colors back in the '70s and the shelters matched that. Their early efforts were fiberglass or plastic "pod" shelters. They had elongated oval shaped windows. Hard to describe, but they looked vaguely nautical, something like those survival pods you see on oil rigs. Either that, or like a spaceship. Wish I could find a picture of one.
Don't need a picture actually; they're using one as an active shelter at the bus stop in front of the Transit Centre on Ilsley Avenue in Burnside, except it has since been painted white with green and blue stripes, to match Metro Transit's 80's/90's livery.
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2007, 1:53 PM
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What was that blue/gray concrete building at the corner of Brunswick and Duke?
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2007, 10:30 PM
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What was that blue/gray concrete building at the corner of Brunswick and Duke?
I vaguely remember as a kid going to a building in that vicinity with my parents. On the backside was the city market while upstairs was the police station. But I don't know if it was there or further south on Brunswick.
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2007, 3:02 PM
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I find it amazing that Halifax once had a streetcar system, it sounds so urban.
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Originally Posted by skyscraper_1 View Post
You can see the street car on Hollis. Amazing that such a backwater city like Halifax(more so pre-1950) had street cars.
Not really, streetcars were once very common in the Maritimes. And I don't just mean in Halifax's peer Saint John (in fact their streetcar system predated Halifax by 3 years), but Moncton, Charlottetown, Glace Bay/Sydney, St. John's, and (perhaps, I can't remember) Fredericton as well. Actually the streetcar system in Saint John was successful enough that they actually began the planning phase of creating the first subway system in Canada, primarily to link the East and West sides of the harbour.

Last edited by kwajo; Dec 8, 2007 at 12:07 AM.
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2007, 1:18 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Transit debate stops, starts, stalls

By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE Staff Reporter
Wed. Dec 12 - 5:42 AM

A municipal staff presentation on public transit set off Halifax regional councillors on Tuesday.

It led to frustration on the part of veteran politicians, who debated the merits of various projects, including the proposed fast ferry for Bedford.

Even the value of such an exercise, which took about 2½ hours and bumped a taxi-licensing issue off the agenda at a committee of the whole session, was the subject of part of regional council’s discussion.

"Please, staff, don’t come back anymore," Coun. Linda Mosher (Purcells Cove-Armdale) told municipal employees who had presented a transportation planning update. "Because every time you give us an update, we just sit around and we don’t accomplish anything."

Deputy Mayor Steve Adams, chairman of the city’s taxi commission, said the transit meeting was a real head-shaker. He noted the only thing council decided was to put off a budget-related issue that senior staff suggested be deferred until fiscal information is presented next month.

"Nothing’s been passed (and) we’ve asked for nothing, except the deferral," said Mr. Adams, who represents Spryfield-Herring Cove. He was annoyed that the taxi licensing item had been temporarily derailed.

"Two-and-a-half hours just to defer something is wrong," Mr. Adams told his council colleagues.

Regarding the planned commuter ferry for Bedford, which council has already approved in principle, the committee meeting heard city hall has options when it comes time to obtain vessels.

The city can buy new ones built locally or elsewhere, or purchase used ferries suitable for the roughly 15-minute trip between suburban Bedford and downtown Halifax.

Fast-ferry plans have been in the works for years; if government funding falls into place, it’ll take up to 30 months for the project to reach fruition. Municipal funds earmarked for the scheme total $6.7 million.

A federal program called "short sea shipping" is where the city will try to land its commuter-ferry money from Ottawa, council was told.

Tuesday’s transit talk took a detour when councillors learned new MetroLink connections, which will offer rapid-transit bus service to Clayton Park and Spryfield, have been delayed until 2012. Municipal staff said a better time to discuss the MetroLink projects would be during upcoming budget talks.

But Coun. Andrew Younger (East Dartmouth-The Lakes) disagreed and made a motion to have "a high priority" placed on the rapid-transit bus projects and another that would serve Main Street in Dartmouth. His motion was defeated after considerable debate.

Before the motion died, Dan English, the municipality’s chief administrative officer, cautioned regional council about considering the approval of such a motion before examining crucial financial material. "Council should be aware of changing directions in mid-course," he said.

In agreeing with Mr. English’s advice, Coun. Steve Streatch (Eastern Shore-Musquodoboit Valley) referred to an organized group of city hall critics who have said they intend to field candidates in next year’s municipal election.

"You know, if you (councillors) actually listened to Dan, you’d be hearing what he’s saying," said Mr. Streatch.

"And you wonder why there’s a group over there that wants to bump half of us out of here. This is the reason."
Looks like this municipality will have no major transit projects until at least 2011-2012. This is getting ridiculous, Metro Link has been one of the most popular services operated by Metro Transit and there is a consultant report saying thousands want to ride a ferry from Bedford. This leadership is a joke and our city is going to suffocate before we get any real attention to important issues.
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