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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 2:26 AM
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For the "heart of downtown", you could run a streetcar down Hollis which is two lanes and one way, Barrington would be practically impossible though. Not sure offhand where you'd route it in other areas.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 3:35 AM
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Morris comes to mind for street cars, so does brunswick and spring garden.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 2:52 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames View Post
I only lived in Halifax for a year, and visited frequently, but not too much time was spent downtown. Looking at Google Earth, I thought a 'U' shaped street car line could be run down Quinpool to Cogswell to Rainnie to Duke until Barrington. From Barrington it would turn back up Spring Garden Rd to Robie or even Dalhousie. What do you think?
Its not a bad route, but is just as easily (and more cheaply) served by buses, like FRED.

Years ago Halifax had overhead-electric rail trolleys, then these were replaced by rubber-tired trolleys that used the same wires. Eventually they removed the wires altogether and went to internal combustion buses.

Nowadays buses are efficient and are becoming "cleaner" running all the time. Instead of putting rails and wires back onto narrow, over-crowded streets, Metro Transit would be better off to invest in a few hydrogen-powered buses for routes like this. Rail only makes sense on long-range routes to outlying communities, and BRT may still win out in that case.
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 4:15 PM
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I think the Barrington rail route actually makes more sense from a commuter rail point of view. The fact that it doesn't go through residential parts of the peninsula is probably good since it allows for higher speeds. The extra stops would be nice but then again would also slow down the trip.

The downsides of the Northern route are that it would need more work before Fairview Cove and all the CN-related issues still apply.
Ya. I have this vision in my head of a Halifax "Grand Central" near where Karlsen's Wharf used to be (beside the Casino) with connections to rail, ferry and busses. It's close enough to downtown (almost) without having to tunnel as you would from the VIA station. And imagine such a station once Cogswell is torn down! It would be in the heart of the "new" downtown.

Oh well... you can dream anyway
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2008, 4:50 AM
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We all dream hence why we come here to discuss it, because one of us might make it rich, and help to build the city of our dreams. Keep dreaming Takeo, because I see the colours you're dreaming in, and I'm there man, only you make them sound more conversational.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2008, 9:44 PM
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Given the recent approval by HRM of a 5-year transit capital plan with no mention of any kind of rail, is anyone aware of any credible cost estimates for a line from Bedford/Sackville to downtown? We toss around various cost numbers for different types of routes but I do not recall any actual estimates being produced.
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2008, 10:26 PM
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An alternative to tunneling under Barrington is the one I had come up with; remove parking from both Brunswick and Hollis, and form a U shape along Brunswick-Cogswell-Hollis and back onto the south-end rail cut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonGoldenFlames View Post
Looking at Google Earth, I thought a 'U' shaped street car line could be run down Quinpool to Cogswell to Rainnie to Duke until Barrington. From Barrington it would turn back up Spring Garden Rd to Robie or even Dalhousie. What do you think?
Sounds like the old tramcar Belt Line, later renumbered routes 1 & 2 back in the trolleycoach days. Now that would be a blast from the past!

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Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
Nowadays buses are efficient and are becoming "cleaner" running all the time. Instead of putting rails and wires back onto narrow, over-crowded streets, Metro Transit would be better off to invest in a few hydrogen-powered buses for routes like this.
As far as I know, this is the plan. Kinda.
They're planning to buy a couple of diesel-electric buses for a downtown shuttle type service.

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Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
Years ago Halifax had overhead-electric rail trolleys, then these were replaced by rubber-tired trolleys that used the same wires. Eventually they removed the wires altogether and went to internal combustion buses.
Now I'm just going to be picky:
The new trolley coaches actually didn't use the same wires, as the trolleys used dual power poles, where as the tram cars used single power poles (the metal tracks were used as ground). In the weeks heading up to the changeover date, they installed all of the overhead wires for the trolleys above the existing tram car overhead. On the night before the first day of trolley coach operations, they went around and frantically took down all of the tram car wires, so the trolleys could head out first thing in the morning.
As it is, the conversion took a few weeks; only the routes servicing the downtown/Spring Garden/Quinpool/Almon street areas were converted to trolley coach, and routes like the Armdale, Point Pleasant Park and Gottingen/Richmond routes remained serviced by trams. In fact, since there was no overhead wires for the trams on these routes to use downtown, they were essentially "orphaned" on the outer parts of their respective routes, and passengers had to transfer from trams to trolleys at designated points
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2008, 1:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrynorthend View Post
Its not a bad route, but is just as easily (and more cheaply) served by buses, like FRED.

Years ago Halifax had overhead-electric rail trolleys, then these were replaced by rubber-tired trolleys that used the same wires. Eventually they removed the wires altogether and went to internal combustion buses.

Nowadays buses are efficient and are becoming "cleaner" running all the time. Instead of putting rails and wires back onto narrow, over-crowded streets, Metro Transit would be better off to invest in a few hydrogen-powered buses for routes like this. Rail only makes sense on long-range routes to outlying communities, and BRT may still win out in that case.
Electrically powered vehicles tend to be extremely quiet, low maintenance, and powerful (great for hills). I don't know much about hydrogen powered buses, but I've heard that they're extremely expensive. While the wires for trollies would be a higher initial expense, such vehicles have very low ongoing maintenance costs. I'd love to see a couple of central, FRED-like routes making use of streetcars or trolly buses.

Besides, economics are certainly important, but we need to include all the factors into the equation. Innercity trollies are more than just an equation of cost/passenger miles, becasue they don't just move people, they add a vibrance and charm to the urban landscape. Their presence is something that people can enjoy without ever actually riding them (well, that's certainly the case for me anyway). A city with streetcar/trollybuses just seems so much more large, charismatic, and urban. But that's something that simple cost vs ridership calculations don't show.

Last edited by Nouvellecosse; Jul 17, 2008 at 3:02 AM.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2008, 2:20 AM
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Central routes like the downtown shuttle being planned are perfect for electric buses or streetcars.

In addition to being much more desirable all-around and being able to rely on any fuel source there is a level of permanence to that kind of infrastructure that makes a big difference when it comes to spurring on extra investment in nearby neighbourhoods. For this reason lines would be really great through areas like the North End, Quinpool, and Barrington/Inglis.

I'd love if Metro Transit turned the downtown shuttle into a small pilot project for electric trolley buses. I have no doubt that if people in Halifax started seeing them in operation they'd be a hit.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 12:13 AM
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Interesting, we're having this discussion, and Edmonton's city council decided last month or so to abandon their trolley bus service within the next couple of years
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 11:37 AM
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Why are they doing that? Low usage?
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2008, 12:49 PM
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No, I think they're used just as much as any of their other surface routes.
But the equipment they're using is old, and I would imagine the reason is that it's more cost effective to replace them with diesels than electrics.
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  #33  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2008, 4:04 PM
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Check this out, it's the planning department's official take on rail-based transit:

http://www.halifax.ca/metrotransit/d...mmuterRail.pdf

Biased much? At the very least, it goes to show once again how narrow-minded these planners are. Maybe Edmonton is the smallest city in North America to currently operate an LRT network (which isn't really the same thing as commuter rail anyway) but they overlook the fact that Halifax-sized cities like Kitchener and Victoria are starting to plan for rail-based transit. Also overlooked is any possibility of just building new tracks instead of limiting a commuter train to the CN line. This way the city COULD use LRT trains and by extension, COULD run them through downtown streets.

My favourite part of the report is the claim that "travel time from downtown by local bus from Sackville in peak time is only 30 minutes"... are we talking about the same Sackville here?
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  #34  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2008, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spryscraper View Post
Check this out, it's the planning department's official take on rail-based transit:

http://www.halifax.ca/metrotransit/d...mmuterRail.pdf

Biased much? At the very least, it goes to show once again how narrow-minded these planners are. Maybe Edmonton is the smallest city in North America to currently operate an LRT network (which isn't really the same thing as commuter rail anyway) but they overlook the fact that Halifax-sized cities like Kitchener and Victoria are starting to plan for rail-based transit. Also overlooked is any possibility of just building new tracks instead of limiting a commuter train to the CN line. This way the city COULD use LRT trains and by extension, COULD run them through downtown streets.

My favourite part of the report is the claim that "travel time from downtown by local bus from Sackville in peak time is only 30 minutes"... are we talking about the same Sackville here?
Yup. I went off the deep end and had a big rant on another discussion board when I saw that... I'm still peeved that the city would go out of their way to publish that little piece of propaganda...
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  #35  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2008, 6:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spryscraper View Post
Check this out, it's the planning department's official take on rail-based transit:

http://www.halifax.ca/metrotransit/d...mmuterRail.pdf

Biased much? At the very least, it goes to show once again how narrow-minded these planners are. Maybe Edmonton is the smallest city in North America to currently operate an LRT network (which isn't really the same thing as commuter rail anyway) but they overlook the fact that Halifax-sized cities like Kitchener and Victoria are starting to plan for rail-based transit. Also overlooked is any possibility of just building new tracks instead of limiting a commuter train to the CN line. This way the city COULD use LRT trains and by extension, COULD run them through downtown streets.

My favourite part of the report is the claim that "travel time from downtown by local bus from Sackville in peak time is only 30 minutes"... are we talking about the same Sackville here?
lol @ the 30 minutes comment. I mean, you could maybe do that time with MetroLink, but certainly not by regular routes.
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  #36  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2008, 7:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Wishblade View Post
lol @ the 30 minutes comment. I mean, you could maybe do that time with MetroLink, but certainly not by regular routes.
From experience the #80/#82 are an hour and a half, and i think the #87 is defenitley over an half an hour.

The Link is 20-25 minutes
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  #37  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2008, 9:05 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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They were more than likely referring to the metrolink route when they said 30 minutes.. but the propaganda piece specifically said by local bus from Sackville - the 80 is scheduled to take 1 hour 15 minutes, but as we all know 1.5 hours isn't uncommon.
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  #38  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2008, 2:34 PM
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It's also kind of unfair to use similar sized cities in the US as a comparison, since they have much lower transit use... there is a City in the US around the same size as Halifax RM with no public transportation at all (besides paratranspo)
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  #39  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2008, 6:07 PM
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Yes, and in general it's built very differently. Halifax is more densely built on average than most of the large US metros (e.g. Boston, Philadelphia, LA). The average of course does not tell the full story since those larger cities have dense sub-areas but when it comes to the smaller cities in the US with around a million people it's not hard to imagine there being equivalent or larger parts of Halifax that are well-suited to transit. Something else to consider is that many substantial metros in the US are not real cities, but rather agglomerations of towns and sprawl.

Given the way construction is going I would also imagine that the size and population of areas that could support rapid transit in Halifax are growing relatively quickly. Most new construction in the city is multi-unit, with the majority of those being mid-sized concrete condos and apartments of 4-12 floors.

The big problem I think is not overall demand but rather the fact that it's hard to serve large parts of the city with a simpler system.
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  #40  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2008, 7:31 PM
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A concept I've been playing with lately is a tight loop in the centre of the peninsula; a very simple system, it would run down Oxford to South St, South St to Barrington, Barrington to North St, and North St back to Oxford. Call it the "BOX" (Barrington/Oxford) for short...

To compliment this, a long North-South line could run along Robie, from NSIT at the north end to SMU at the south. These two routes would connect all three Dal campuses, King's, SMU, all three NSCAD campuses (~3 minute walking distance), NSIT (again, a very short walk from Robie), the Commons and the new high school, the IWK and both parts of the QE2, the dockyards, the CBD, Willow/Windsor Park... the list goes on
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