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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2010, 1:42 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Methinks somebody has been reading our forum and incorporating our ideas into their articles.

That survey data shows how little the average Haligonian even knows about public transportation and that the public needs to be educated.

I think that people don't know how good it is to live in other places without a car... too bad our city is being built around it. Viva la rail!!!!!
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2010, 4:49 PM
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i think we should have light rail and fast ferrys and better buses and everything, yay, and i know its gonna happen here
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2010, 4:52 PM
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aha, but really rail would be nice but the ferry idea is something that should have happened long ago
and rail could work great if the population was knowledgeable enough to support such break-throughs.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2010, 4:52 PM
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Water-based transport is the best solution for Halifax, given all its water in the area. Within the city, small tram lines would be good as well.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2010, 5:32 PM
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Water-based transport is the best solution for Halifax, given all its water in the area. Within the city, small tram lines would be good as well.
Could not disagree more on both counts. We need a rail-based solution.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2010, 5:40 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
Methinks somebody has been reading our forum and incorporating our ideas into their articles.
I got that feeling too as I was reading it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Could not disagree more on both counts. We need a rail-based solution.
Absolutely, however I have been warming up more and more lately to a downtown electric trolley coach (trackless) route. I've never been onboard the ferry idea, it just seems like such a huge cost for a relatively small catchment area. Rail from Windsor Jct on the other hand, that's a huge catchment area.

As for using refurbed Dayliner/RDC cars, I think it's a good starting point, however the biggest turnoff I have with these is that you'll never see them past the Via station. I think for this to be truly convenient, you need smaller cars (but still built to the proper safety levels to operate on the CN trackage along side freight - I'm sure it's possible) that can operate right through downtown, preferable to a new downtown terminal built on the Cogswell Interchange land. If Lower Water was made into a one-way street Northbound for the entire length, then I see no reason why rail couldn't operate in mixed traffic on L.Water (northbound) and Hollis (southbound) to Cogswell.

The author also brings up using the area on the other side of the peninsula, continued past Richmond to the sewage plant. Hell why not take that a step further and cross Upper Water to the Cogswell Interchange area. Then you're pretty much right there at Scotia Square.

Anyway, good to see this issue actually getting some additional time in the spotlight.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2010, 7:52 PM
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The heavy diesel trains would be fine for a commuter rail service with limited stops. As mentioned, you can't run those along regular streets.

One other issue with the existing routes is that they just don't serve very much. A proper system would go through the downtown, past the hospitals, serve Dalhousie and SMU, etc. This would require light rail with new tracks, but that is still pretty realistic given Halifax's size and budget.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2010, 8:11 PM
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Oh, God its starting again.........
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  #89  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2010, 4:02 AM
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Just to throw some fuel into the fire;

This is an informal poll of course but the Chronicle Herald Question of the Day shows a 85% majority in favour of rail transit in HRM.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2010, 2:59 PM
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Wow.

That article was one of the more well written pieces on public transport in Halifax that I have seen in a long time. Great job. I hope that the author keeps pounding the drum on this issue to keep it in the forefront of the public in the hopes that some politician picks it up.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2010, 11:32 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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I think something like this would be perfect for Lower Water and Hollis Streets:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Transit_Mall
Basically it's two one-way streets in Portland, one northbound the other south. The streets are both three-lane, with two of them designated as transit-only. Obviously that wouldn't quite work here, as both lanes would need to be maintained for cars, but the idea of making Lr Water one-way the entire length sounds good to me. Then there would be room to run light rail through downtown.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2010, 11:54 AM
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Halifax expected to study cost of commuter trains

Halifax regional council is expected to ask city staff to study the cost of a commuter train service into downtown Halifax.

The purpose is to settle the question about whether a service starting in a place like Truro or Stewiacke is economically feasible.

"I really think it is time when we are looking at spending millions of dollars on ferries, millions of dollars on buses and a billion dollars to do a third bridge someday maybe, why would we not want to, once and for all, have a study and put this issue to rest?" said Coun. Tim Outhit (Bedford).

The service would use existing train tracks and would be a "heavy-rail dayliner" rather than a light-rail service, said Mr. Outhit, who introduced the motion Tuesday at a meeting of committee of the whole.

He said he is tired of hearing that such a service is too costly when it appears that a cost study has never been done.

Mr. Outhit, Coun. Barry Dalrymple (Waverley-Fall River-Beaver Bank) and Coun. Peter Lund (Hammonds Plains-St. Margarets ) all told the committee meeting that they are inundated with questions from residents in their districts about why such a service isn’t being considered.

"We do get asked this constantly . . . and I would like to have some actual answers," said Mr. Dalyrmple, who noted that it wasn’t that long ago that his parents got a daily train to school each day.

"(The public wants) a better answer than that it is too expensive," said Mr. Lund.

The motion for staff to look at the costs of dayliner service came after a city staffer said that no opportunity exists for a light-rail commuter service into downtown Halifax. Regional council was expected to deal with the motion at its regular meeting Tuesday evening.

The train tracks are owned by CN and are designated for heavy freight trains.

Because of concerns about accidents, Transport Canada guidelines "prevent light-rail trains from using those (heavy-rail) corridors without a significant separation and barrier (between) them," said Dave McCusker, the municipality’s manager of strategic transportation planning

"There are cities in Canada who do run light rail in heavy-rail corridors, but they are able to achieve the type of separation that is required by Transport Canada regulations.

"Coming through Halifax and Halifax peninsular, there is simply isn’t enough land to separate them."

Dayliners are used by some commuters in Toronto and Vancouver but are not designed to make frequent stops, said Mr. McCusker, explaining why the municipality hasn’t done a cost study before.

"The acceleration of these vehicles is just not there to make it a quick trip. It would be very slow loading and unloading, and accelerating and decelerating," he said.

"That is why they are really appropriate for limited stops over longer distances, whereas (light) trains can make frequents stops."
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  #93  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2010, 6:55 PM
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I would like to know why there's never been a real study evaluating multiple options, including light rail and new right of ways. I've seen private reports done on light rail or streetcars and they never get any attention.

It definitely feels like the city has blinders on when it comes to this issue. I suspect it's a symptom of a few staffers having already decided what they want and then playing up the standard "this is Halifax, we can't have nice things" routine.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2010, 11:26 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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The GO transit system in the Toronto area would be heavy-rail dayliner (double-decker trains) and seems to be very popular. This shares the rail lines with freight trains.

Although the GO system doesn't make frequent stops like the subway system, it makes stops every few kilometers. If there are parking lots at each stop then people can park their car and take the train. The train doesn't need to run every hour throughout the day. It could just be 2 trains inbound in the morning and 2 trains outbound during the evening. In between, it could be a bus route. This is done on many of the Go routes in the Toronto area. I would think that it would be just as popular as the current ferry system between Halifax and Dartmouth but could handle Sackville/Bedford traffic.

I think that the HRM might want to consider the GO train system as a model for an HRM system.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2010, 12:00 AM
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The thing about it not making alot of stops i dont think would work, it would further out but once you get closer to the core and not making much stops youd be losing a significant population base.
i dont know where they want to start from, i heard fall river sackville windsor junction and truro, but i think cobequid, bedford sunnyside, mill cove, chinatown, rockingham, fairview area, mumford,universities, and downtown are all possible stops.
i also think if they can use heavy tracks they should explore the possibility of other tracks like dartmouth or the abandoned tracks from fairview to springvale near chocolate lake to bayers lake and on to lakeside.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2010, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
The GO transit system in the Toronto area would be heavy-rail dayliner (double-decker trains) and seems to be very popular. This shares the rail lines with freight trains.

I think that the HRM might want to consider the GO train system as a model for an HRM system.
I agree absolutely. HRM should be looking at rail based transit at least as seriously as high speed ferries. The existing ferries across the harbour to Dartmouth are fine but I have reservations about the ferry to Bedford.

A GO Transit type of heavy duty double decker rail liner making infrequent stops along the existing rail right-of-way would be able to serve a more diverse area than the fast ferry and would be able to move more people.

Stops could include the VIA station, near Dalhousie University, Mumford, Fairview, Rockingham, Mill Cove, Bedford and points further afield. You could have seperate lines going as far out as Uniacke or Stewiacke. Each suburban station along the line could be equipped with a park-'n-ride. The possibilities are endless.

A system like this could serve as a catalyst for growth along the commuter corridor.

Let's do it!!!
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  #97  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2010, 8:04 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Originally Posted by -Harlington- View Post
i dont know where they want to start from, i heard fall river sackville windsor junction and truro, but i think cobequid, bedford sunnyside, mill cove, chinatown, rockingham, fairview area, mumford,universities, and downtown are all possible stops.
That sounds very possible, I think the article just meant that they wouldn't be stopping every 200-500 metres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
The GO transit system in the Toronto area would be heavy-rail dayliner (double-decker trains) and seems to be very popular.
For the record, GO trains aren't dayliners, they're hauled by locomotives.

Anyway, the whole commuter rail is interesting, but I would still rather see them exploring a proper light rail solution. I see no reason why light rail vehicles couldn't operate here with proper scheduling so they're not operating with freight or heavy VIA trains.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2010, 3:41 PM
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Pretty bad when you need three high-cost proposals just to into Metro Transit's plans

HRM staff looking at rail commuter service that could extend to Truro
Halifax News Net
By Yvette d’Entremont– The Weekly News

The dream of a commuter ferry service from Bedford to Halifax isn’t dead in the water, but a new idea is also trundling along the tracks.
Bedford Coun. Tim Outhit said there are actually “three balls currently in the air” when discussing commuter service from his community to downtown Halifax. The first is the private-venture hovercraft being proposed by businessman Jay Hasson. A presentation on that proposal was made before regional council on Jan. 26.
The second is HRM’s own fast ferry service, which has been an ongoing topic of discussion for about three years.
The most recent “ball” being tossed in the air isn’t a ferry service at all. Outhit said he passed a motion to have HRM staff look into the feasibility of a dayliner rail service.
“We’ve always known LRT (light rail) is too expensive, you need a larger population, you’d spend way too much laying the track, a subway or sky train idea just isn’t feasible,” Outhit explained. “But we really haven’t investigated what we could do with the existing CN tracks. It’s called heavy rail, and could possibly extend beyond HRM.”
What Outhit wants HRM staff to more closely examine in a study is the possibility of a dayliner service. He suggested it could perhaps stretch from as far afield as Truro before moving into several communities like Stewiacke, Elmsdale, Enfield, Sackville, Bedford and Rockingham before ending in Halifax.
“We’ve never done a study of this. There are probably enough people, especially if you look outside the HRM border,” he said.
The dayliner approach takes advantage of existing tracks, and Outhit said dayliners are already operating in Texas and on Vancouver Island. He said an added bonus is the municipality wouldn’t have to look far to secure a dayliner. They are being refurbished in Moncton.
“It’s a big old bus on rails basically, it’s heavy rail to go on existing CN tracks. My view is that in addition to looking at ferries and hovercraft, we should look at this,” Outhit said.
“I was immediately supported by Barry Dalrymple and Peter Lund and eventually everybody. We should also be looking at what we can do with existing infrastructure.”
Outhit said serious discussions and investigations into all three services are necessary because commuter congestion throughout HRM is going to continue growing as the population increases.


ydentremont@hfxnews.ca
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  #99  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2010, 7:57 PM
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It still annoys me that everything is discussed in the context of serving Bedford and then ideas like LRT are dismissed. Bedford doesn't have the population to support its own light rail line but there are definitely areas in the HRM which do have the densities - namely the peninsula and Clayton Park, which could have been much better if it were more sensibly designed.

I was just on the SkyTrain 20 minutes ago and it passes through many areas that are no more densely built up than parts of Halifax. It has about 70 km of track, some underground. I find it really hard to believe that Vancouver can support that, streetcars, electric trolleys, and a vastly superior bus service while Halifax can't even handle one small LRT line. Vancouver's larger for sure, but the other part of the puzzle is that it has more direction and better priorities. Vancouver's transit is far more expensive per capita and TransLink is in far worse financial shape than Metro Transit but they are nevertheless focused on expansion and providing high-level service. In Halifax the focus is on what can't be done and the system is so poor that the only ones who use it are the ones who have no other choice.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2010, 10:41 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ View Post
“We’ve always known LRT (light rail) is too expensive, you need a larger population, you’d spend way too much laying the track...
Idiot. And here I thought Outhit had some promise.
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