Port of Vancouver Discussion

[Pinion]

Major expansion planned for the north shore terminals west of the Ironworkers bridge.

New grain terminal floated for North Vancouver

International demand spurs Lynnterm expansion plan

The North Vancouver waterfront could soon be home to a massive new grain export terminal.

Western Stevedoring’s Lynnterm West Gate facility at the foot of Brooksbank Avenue has been a break bulk facility since the 1970s, but the company has partnered with Manitoba-based G3 Global Holdings to build a new grain terminal.

Though the designs haven’t been finalized, the terminal will require silos big enough to hold 180,000 tonnes of grain and export six million tonnes per year.

“There’s a lot of activity that needs to be done on site for a facility of this size. This is one of the largest developments that will have happened in Port Metro Vancouver for quite some time. This is the first large grain terminal that will have been built since the early 1960s,” said Karl Gerrand, G3’s CEO.

G3 is still trying to determine whether it’s feasible to construct the facility based on whether there are enough grain elevators in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, and rail capacity to feed the system. It’s likely another four to six months before a decision can be made, Gerrand said, but the company decided to go public with the plans this week because the sheer size involved meant rumours were starting to spread.

“We’ve got a cast of thousands that are starting to get involved in this project and we also have a local community that we wanted to reach out to and consult with to make sure we’re meeting the needs of the local interest groups in the Vancouver area,” he said. “This is a project of such size and complexity and significance, it’s garnered quite a bit of attention.”

Once completed, G3 will be in direct competition with North Vancouver’s Richardson International and Cargill Canada, as well as other grain terminals on the West Coast. But, Gerrand said, this project will have a more efficient design, with a train loop right down to the water’s edge that will allow for up to 130 cars to roll in compared to the 40 or 50 the other facilities can handle.

“It’s going to allow us to bring in large trains, unload them in a very quick manner — much faster than the existing terminals can unload them and get the train back to the Prairies to fill again, turn around and come back,” he said.

By comparison, Cargill Canada’s silos on the other side of Neptune Terminals hold 240,000 tonnes and Richardson International’s hold about 180,000.

It’s too soon to say how much the project will cost to construct but Gerrand estimated it would result in another 60 to 100 new jobs to operate.

Increased demand for grain in Asia is what’s spurring the investment, Gerrand said.

“We’ve had bottlenecks in the system, especially last year in the grain industry where we had upwards of 60 to 70 vessels at any time sitting out in the Port of Vancouver waiting to be loaded and they just can’t get the grain fast enough,” he said.

Should G3 pursue the project and Port Metro Vancouver give it the necessary permits, Gerrand said construction should start by next summer and have the terminal online for 2019’s fall harvest.

The existing break bulk operations at Lynnterm West Gate can be shifted over to the East Gate facility on the other side of Lynn Creek as it too will be expanded, according to Western Stevedoring president Brad Eshleman.

Eshleman said he expects a robust consultation process with local stakeholders as Port Metro Vancouver assesses whether or not it should be built.

“This is a very significant terminal development in the Burrard Inlet. We’ll definitely be doing all our due diligence with respect to dealing with the community, dealing with the environmental issues. We very much want to be a good corporate citizen in dealing with all this stuff,” he said. “This is really a good news story. It’s really positive news for the farmers throughout the Prairies. It’s very good news, we believe, for job creation on the North Shore and the community.”

- See more at: http://www.nsnews.com/news/new-grain....5CQk90ul.dpuf

[CareerShow]

I wonder if the cruise industry in Vancouver will increase or decrease throughout the next ten years

[Gordon]

Vancouver will always be a major cruise port. the port expects growth the big thing will be the mega ships tend to be too tall for both the Lions Gate Bridge & some low hanging transmission wire in Seymour passage. The expansion at Canada Place should be finished soon which will encompass Exhibit Hall c. they are adding 2 escalators & & 1 elevator & check-in & embarkation facilities there

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Vancouver will always be a major cruise port. the port expects growth the big thing will be the mega ships tend to be too tall for both the Lions Gate Bridge & some low hanging transmission wire in Seymour passage. The expansion at Canada Place should be finished soon which will encompass Exhibit Hall c. they are adding 2 escalators & & 1 elevator & check-in & embarkation facilities there

Yes but the number of cruise ships has been progressively decreasing. I remember back in 2003 when Holland America had 7 ships based out of Vancouver.

[CareerShow]

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/si...se_tourism.pdf

On around page 6 there is a chart showing the number of sailings and passengers. Vancouver had nearly double of Seattle and 8 times as many as Victoria in 2005. 10 years later and its a different story.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/si...se_tourism.pdf

On around page 6 there is a chart showing the number of sailings and passengers. Vancouver had nearly double of Seattle and 8 times as many as Victoria in 2005. 10 years later and its a different story.

Certainly some years were bad and others were above average, but comparing this with this suggests Vancouver has been close to flat from 2004 to 2014. I don't know what Seattle's numbers are like, but it would not seem like there has been any substantial loss, just an absence of growth.

Vancouver 2004
Sailings 286
Passengers 930k

Vancouver 2014
Sailings 243
Passengers 812k

[red-paladin]

I hope that Ballantyne Pier is still available to be used for cruise ships in the future, should demand be there.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

I hope that Ballantyne Pier is still available to be used for cruise ships in the future, should demand be there.

They've already decided to close it so Centerm can be expanded.

The recent decision to close the aging Ballantyne Cruise Terminal, which lies just east of Centerm, and consolidate cruise operations at Canada Place in 2015 provides an opportunity to expand Centerm to meet the near-term demand for increased container handling capacity.

http://www.portmetrovancouver.com/en...ansion-project

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

I hope that Ballantyne Pier is still available to be used for cruise ships in the future, should demand be there.

Agree totally about the need for investing in future space capacity.
Problem (for me anyway) is that the Ballantyne's in a location outside the city centre, as are not the others at Canada Place, but neither is that hood at all attractive.
Perhaps westward expansion should be more closely examined. West of Ballantyne, of course, and west of Canada Place, too. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.

[Pinion]

There's the new convention centre west of Canada Place with seaplane terminal. Something tells me putting a huge cruise ship in their landing path would not work out well. There's no space left on the south shore.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Pinion

They've already decided to close it so Centerm can be expanded.



http://www.portmetrovancouver.com/en...ansion-project

That is a real shame. The building is so beautiful: a 1923 Beau Arts original facade. It is pretty much Vancouver's last original pier.

As important as the port is, the building should be preserved for use by people. The port spent $23 million rebuilding it in the 90s. It seems like such a waste of money to probably just tear it down. Yes, Port Metro Vancouver is self sufficient, but only because of liberties given to them by the government/taxpayers.

And the decrease in cruise ship departures is mostly due to the combination of the weak American economy and the high Canadian dollar over the past few years. This year stands to pick up, and if it does, assets will be put in place for next year to make it even bigger. It seems short sighted to remove capacity.

The only reason to cut it is because Port Metro Vancouver doesn't make money off the increase to the local economy cruise ships bring. They have no obligation to the taxpayer to help improve the local economy, and containers directly make them more money. The only reason they do anything with cruise ships is because it is the only way to make money off Canada Place. If they could dock container or bulk carriers at Canada Place without a revolt, they would.

Remember, as long as there is an Alaskan Cruise industry, ships will stop in Vancouver. They legally have to stop somewhere in Canada to sail between 2 US ports, or else they have to register in the US, according to the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886. Even if all Alaska cruises originate from Seattle, each ship would have to stop somewhere in BC twice (once there and once back). And Bella Coola and Price Rupert only have so many tourist opportunities, so most are going to stop in Vancouver and Victoria.

[casper]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

That is a real shame. The building is so beautiful: a 1923 Beau Arts original facade. It is pretty much Vancouver's last original pier.

As important as the port is, the building should be preserved for use by people. The port spent $23 million rebuilding it in the 90s. It seems like such a waste of money to probably just tear it down. Yes, Port Metro Vancouver is self sufficient, but only because of liberties given to them by the government/taxpayers.

And the decrease in cruise ship departures is mostly due to the combination of the weak American economy and the high Canadian dollar over the past few years. This year stands to pick up, and if it does, assets will be put in place for next year to make it even bigger. It seems short sighted to remove capacity.

The only reason to cut it is because Port Metro Vancouver doesn't make money off the increase to the local economy cruise ships bring. They have no obligation to the taxpayer to help improve the local economy, and containers directly make them more money. The only reason they do anything with cruise ships is because it is the only way to make money off Canada Place. If they could dock container or bulk carriers at Canada Place without a revolt, they would.

Remember, as long as there is an Alaskan Cruise industry, ships will stop in Vancouver. They legally have to stop somewhere in Canada to sail between 2 US ports, or else they have to register in the US, according to the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886. Even if all Alaska cruises originate from Seattle, each ship would have to stop somewhere in BC twice (once there and once back). And Bella Coola and Price Rupert only have so many tourist opportunities, so most are going to stop in Vancouver and Victoria.

I am only aware of NCL (I assume other lines are similar). Most of the Seattle cruises are round trip to-from Seattle with one stop in Canada (Victoria) as the last stop before the return to Seattle. Americans predominately prefer the Seattle sailing. Cost of air is quite a bit less. European travelers prefer Vancouver generally. The ratios are slated between the two cities. They make more money per passanger on the ship with the Vancouver trips but less demand.

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by casper

I am only aware of NCL (I assume other lines are similar). Most of the Seattle cruises are round trip to-from Seattle with one stop in Canada (Victoria) as the last stop before the return to Seattle. Americans predominately prefer the Seattle sailing. Cost of air is quite a bit less. European travelers prefer Vancouver generally. The ratios are slated between the two cities. They make more money per passanger on the ship with the Vancouver trips but less demand.

None of the Seattle sailings are one way however. It appears many people enjoy the one way aspect of many of Vancouvers trips, as it leaves them more time to sail around in alaska. Does anyone have a link to the cruise ship list of ships based out of vancouver from 2000 till now?

[Gordon]

The shorter distance between Vancouver and Alaska allows for more glacier viewing. Holland America does both Glacier bay & Sawyer Glacier on it's round trips whereas Seattle based ships can only do one or the other. Seattle based ships do not sail the inside passage.

[Klazu]

Interesting map that I came across.


http://www.ritholtz.com/blog

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

That is a real shame. The building is so beautiful: a 1923 Beau Arts original facade. It is pretty much Vancouver's last original pier.

As important as the port is, the building should be preserved for use by people. The port spent $23 million rebuilding it in the 90s. It seems like such a waste of money to probably just tear it down. Yes, Port Metro Vancouver is self sufficient, but only because of liberties given to them by the government/taxpayers.

And the decrease in cruise ship departures is mostly due to the combination of the weak American economy and the high Canadian dollar over the past few years. This year stands to pick up, and if it does, assets will be put in place for next year to make it even bigger. It seems short sighted to remove capacity.

I don't believe they are planning to tear it down due to the heritage aspects of the terminal.

By virtue of its location, Ballantyne was not the greatest welcome to Vancouver. It's accessible only by coach or car, and the surrounding area is ... gritty. Canada Place is a much better experience for cruise passengers.

In recent years, due to loss of market share to Seattle, very few cruise ships actually used Ballantyne. Under those circumstances, I think it's much better to repurpose it and plan any future expansion (which likely would be years away anyway) closer to downtown.

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

I don't believe they are planning to tear it down due to the heritage aspects of the terminal.

By virtue of its location, Ballantyne was not the greatest welcome to Vancouver. It's accessible only by coach or car, and the surrounding area is ... gritty. Canada Place is a much better experience for cruise passengers.

In recent years, due to loss of market share to Seattle, very few cruise ships actually used Ballantyne. Under those circumstances, I think it's much better to repurpose it and plan any future expansion (which likely would be years away anyway) closer to downtown.

Yea, Canada place is far better for tourists.

[casper]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

None of the Seattle sailings are one way however. It appears many people enjoy the one way aspect of many of Vancouvers trips, as it leaves them more time to sail around in alaska. Does anyone have a link to the cruise ship list of ships based out of vancouver from 2000 till now?

This is the calendar:
http://www.portmetrovancouver.com/ab...schedules.aspx

At the start and end of the season most of the Seattle ships will stop in Vancouver as part of repositioning. The ones in the middle of the summer are the regulars in Vancouver.

The NLC trips (likely the same with the other lines) from Vancouver can be purchased as a 7 day one-way or a 14 day round-trip. If doing a one-way, you can add on a train trip in Alaska.

I think they run into problems with the one-way from Seattle if it does not have a Canadian stop before reaching Alaska.

[cornholio]

A problem with the cruise ship industry is Canadian immigration. Getting a visa to the US for most people is easy, but to get a visa to Canada is difficult. Canada's immigration system is simply broken compared to the US. Take for a example a friend of mine from Brazil, they were going to take a Alaska cruise from Vancouver this summer, once they looked in to the hassle of getting a visa they decided to take a cruise from Seattle instead (along with their friend).

I would say that Canada's broken immigration system is whats hurting the cruise industry the most.

[csbvan]

I believe that Vancouver has fully recovered from its loss of market share to Seattle. Back around 2008 it was nearly 800-900k passengers, 2010-2012 was more in the 600k range, but since then the numbers have returned to above 800k.