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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2013, 7:08 PM
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I think expropriation makes sense in cases where you have only a few properties holding up a public project that would benefit a large number of people. It has a bad name from past decades when it would be used to clear out entire neighbourhoods, but that is an extreme case. It might even be good to pay bonus money to displaced people, or give them extra time to find them new housing (or the city could even waive the fees on a new house or something). I doubt many people would be that upset about their house being expropriated if they received a similar one plus, say, $50,000. From the city's perspective, that cost would not be very significant for a major road project requiring some limited expropriations.

On top of the "small town syndrome", transportation planning in Halifax is also politicized to the point where it's driven by special interests rather than actual need. The city needs a separate transportation authority to handle bridges, roads, and transit based on cost-benefit.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 1:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bluenoser View Post
It's funny/sad that North West Arm Drive never even made it close to its namesake, although there is still a lot of land available to complete it without a ridiculous amount of expropriation. On the peninsula side, there is still a sizeable wooded area at the (abrupt) South end of Robie which could become the landing for the bridge and an interchange.
Well, the Ecology Action Center and their operatives in the media and at City Hall have effectively made it nearly impossible to come out in favor of any improvement to the road network here. Look at the foolishness regarding fixing Bayers Road, a good portion of this was actually planned for way back in the 1940s. Yet we are still stuck witht he 1940 street configuration.

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I'm grateful the downtown portion of 'Harbour Drive' was never completed although I've always wondered why, after all the work that went into the Cogswell Interchange, Barrington St. in the North was not turned into a decent highway, or at least straightened out a bit with four lanes - maybe even some trees and a median? It makes for a pretty unceremonious entrance to the peninsula after coming across the McKay Bridge.
Not much different than the entrance from the MacDonald, which dumps you onto North St, a totally unsuitable main street that has absolutely no architectural merit attached to any of the buildings. I'm unsure which entrance to the peninsula is more unsuitable.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 2:49 AM
Hali87 Hali87 is offline
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Calgary (because it has cycles of peaks and valleys) has been used to this and has had some forethought and created a 'road bylaw table'. Along major roads, where transportation has identified the need to widen the road, there is an additional bylaw setback. That way, when a redevelopment happens, the additional space required for widening is taken. So the building would have to be setback the minimum setback between the 'road widening portion' (since that would be the new property line). But that only works when you have a lot of redevelopment - it might work in Halifax over the next few years but yet again only as redevelopment happens.
The one downside to this is that in the meantime there ends up being a lot of empty space. This is particularly noticeable in Edmonton, where I assume they take a similar approach. Everything there (roads in particular) seems wide to the point of total redundancy, and there is a lot of conspicuously unused land. I guess ultimately it's probably better than having to deal with expropriating land though.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 2:51 AM
Hali87 Hali87 is offline
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I doubt many people would be that upset about their house being expropriated if they received a similar one plus, say, $50,000. From the city's perspective, that cost would not be very significant for a major road project requiring some limited expropriations.
This sounds completely right, with the possible exception of the few who would feel pressured to "not sell out".
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 2:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Not much different than the entrance from the MacDonald, which dumps you onto North St, a totally unsuitable main street that has absolutely no architectural merit attached to any of the buildings. I'm unsure which entrance to the peninsula is more unsuitable.
Subjective I guess. I actually really like coming off the MacDonald onto North Street. There might not be any stand-alone impressive buildings, but it's a cool streetscape.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 3:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post

Not much different than the entrance from the MacDonald, which dumps you onto North St, a totally unsuitable main street that has absolutely no architectural merit attached to any of the buildings. I'm unsure which entrance to the peninsula is more unsuitable.
It's not really a main street, just a wide neighbourhood road and a minor traffic thoroughfare.

And while the overall aspect of the street is a bit run-down, some of the houses are quite lovely, actually.

But I've learned not to argue architectural aesthetics with you, so I'll just leave it alone.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 3:21 AM
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Looks like a lot of properties around there have been fixed up lately. It used to be a really dumpy area. Some of the houses a bit farther north have always been well-kept and there are at least 3 new medium-sized buildings in the works for that stretch of Gottingen (North End Pub, Bilby Street, and St. Joseph's). Should be a great spot in a few years. It would be even better if it were tied in with the southern part of Gottingen with the Housing Trust buildings and Gottingen Terrace (or whatever might be built there).
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 15, 2013, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
Looks like a lot of properties around there have been fixed up lately. It used to be a really dumpy area. Some of the houses a bit farther north have always been well-kept and there are at least 3 new medium-sized buildings in the works for that stretch of Gottingen (North End Pub, Bilby Street, and St. Joseph's). Should be a great spot in a few years. It would be even better if it were tied in with the southern part of Gottingen with the Housing Trust buildings and Gottingen Terrace (or whatever might be built there).
I'm not referring to that section of Gottingen. I'm talking about North St., such as that awful block between Agricola and Robie.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2013, 3:25 AM
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Request for a staff report going before Regional Council this Tuesday;

11.2 Councillor Whitman

“To request a staff report to review and consider the
implementation of a reversing lane on the Bedford Highway
from the Kearney Lake Road to Halifax during the morning
and evening rush hour traffic”
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2013, 3:45 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Request for a staff report going before Regional Council this Tuesday;

11.2 Councillor Whitman

“To request a staff report to review and consider the
implementation of a reversing lane on the Bedford Highway
from the Kearney Lake Road to Halifax during the morning
and evening rush hour traffic”
This sounds like a good idea. But it appears as though the Bedford Highway is only 3 lanes in this stretch. So wouldn't it be possible in only one direction (towards Bedford)? This would limit the practicality to evening rush hour traffic only (still a benefit though).
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2013, 1:37 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
This sounds like a good idea. But it appears as though the Bedford Highway is only 3 lanes in this stretch. So wouldn't it be possible in only one direction (towards Bedford)? This would limit the practicality to evening rush hour traffic only (still a benefit though).
Much of this stretch already has two lanes towards Bedford, the idea would be to make the middle lane go towards Halifax in the morning, so it would probably help morning rush hour more. I can see a problem though where the middle lane is used as a turning lane between Tremont and Flamingo Drive and there are several businesses in that stretch. If they can find a solution to that I think it would be a great proposal.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2013, 3:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Haligonian88 View Post
Much of this stretch already has two lanes towards Bedford, the idea would be to make the middle lane go towards Halifax in the morning, so it would probably help morning rush hour more. I can see a problem though where the middle lane is used as a turning lane between Tremont and Flamingo Drive and there are several businesses in that stretch. If they can find a solution to that I think it would be a great proposal.
This section was originally proposed to be 4 lanes when the road was rebuilt in the 1980s. Thanks to then Coun. Ron Hansen and the desire to save a few trees we ended up with the mess we currently have. The only real solution is to make it 4 lanes.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2013, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
This section was originally proposed to be 4 lanes when the road was rebuilt in the 1980s. Thanks to then Coun. Ron Hansen and the desire to save a few trees we ended up with the mess we currently have. The only real solution is to make it 4 lanes.
Or 5. Center turning lane.

Most of the time we are so short sighted. Just think of the cost to redo the whole road again.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2013, 12:54 AM
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It would be nice if the reversing lane concept continued all the way to the Fairview overpass so we can get a HOV lane in addition to the existing two lanes from MSVU up to the current bus access at the bottom of Main Ave. This could be a great opportunity to actually create an extended HOV section in traffic, and could be a springboard to increased usage of such lanes elsewhere in the city.

I look forward to when this report comes out to find out that this opportunity will be sufficiently wasted...
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2013, 3:44 AM
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I guess I should weigh in on what I posted.

The three lane reversing idea is doable from Kearney Lake to the four lane section at the very least.

Considering the proposed Motherlands Redevelopment I think the best option is to widen the Bedford Highway to four lanes to Seton Road (one property would have to be expropriated). A new signalized intersection would provide as a good conversion area and a bus jump lane outbound could be considered.

As for the four lane section a similar layout to Centre Street N here in Calgary could be investigated with three lanes (two traffic, one bus/HOV/bike) at peak hours and normal two-way flow at other times. The issues with this though would be left-turns outbound in the AM (protected light signals could work) and the conversion at the Fairview Overpass to normal flow.

Something like this for scheduling could work;

12am - 6am: One lane in each direction with two-way left turns in centre lane
6am - 10am: Two lanes IB, one lane OB, lengthened-protected OB movements at Bayview for left-turns.
10am - 2pm: One lane in each direction with two-way left turns in centre lane
2pm - 6pm: One lane IB, two lanes OB
6pm - 12am: One lane in each direction with two-way left turns in centre lane

The Kearney Lake intersection would need some work but it should be relatively minor. Bayview would require new signage and signals, and new stoplights would be installed at Seton Road.

All considered I think it would be worth it and, with enough funds available, HRM could expand the project to include transit and AT infrastructure along with streetscaping in Rockingham (I've always imagined that stretch as a small, compact urban neighbourhood centre).
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2013, 4:08 AM
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Originally Posted by curnhalio View Post
It would be nice if the reversing lane concept continued all the way to the Fairview overpass so we can get a HOV lane in addition to the existing two lanes from MSVU up to the current bus access at the bottom of Main Ave. This could be a great opportunity to actually create an extended HOV section in traffic, and could be a springboard to increased usage of such lanes elsewhere in the city.

I look forward to when this report comes out to find out that this opportunity will be sufficiently wasted...
I don't think reversing lanes are far-fetched since the city already has them on the Macdonald bridge, Herring Cove Road, and maybe some other places.

I think they're great. HOV lanes are good too. Space is at a premium in many parts of the city so the existing roads should be used as efficiently as possible.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2013, 6:16 AM
rkannegi rkannegi is offline
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I'm glad to see that HRM will be weighing in the feasibility of an HOV lane in the reversible lane scenario for Bedford Highway. Bedford Highway is already well known for "sh*tting the bed" in rush hour.

Recently, I proposed an idea to HRM about looking into the feasibility of a ramp metering signal system for the weave zones that straddle the Fairview Overpass, whilst using such a system to provide HOV queue jumping. I would be willing to bet that such a system would likely eliminate the vast amount of weave-related fighting that currently goes on west of the Windsor Street Exchange signals.

In the meantime, aside from implementing the austere ramp metering measure that I proposed, HRM and NSTIR should look at a long-term option of extending Highway 111 to Highway 102 via a viaduct along Joseph Howe Drive and plan the new freeway and the twinned Mackay Bridge to have up to 2 HOV lanes in each direction, with a minimum of 1 HOV lane in each direction. If the Highway 111 ring road that I have proposed a while back in the Halifax Metro Ring Road System thread is ever built, I say that it should ideally have 2 HOV lanes in each direction, 2 or 3 general lanes in each direction, and ramp meters on all on-ramps that lead in from service interchanges, with no ramp meters on systems interchanges (systems interchange means a junction that ties two or more freeways together via high-speed ramps, while service interchange means connecting a freeway with a lesser road). The ring road's ramps can also have HOV lanes fitted on them or some ramps can even be totally HOV/Heavy Truck/Service-Vehicle-only.

Halifax Metro Ring Road System

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=184298

Queue jumping in my austere scenario would be from the westbound merge zone that egresses from the Windsor Street Exchange signals and from the Main Avenue bus-only lane, which I suggested be changed from a bus-only lane to an HOV-2 lane. HRM can make the right-hand northbound left turn lane and right-hand westbound through lane at the Windsor Street Exchange signals into HOV queue jump lanes. (The Lady Hammond approach can be easily re-striped to allow for this on the existing road infrastructure, where the westbound approach would consist of single left turn lanes at Kempt Road and at Windsor Street with a single general lane to the right of the left turn lanes with the HOV queue jump lane being a new lane that forms on the right edge between Kempt Road and Windsor Street.)

Ramp Meter Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_meter

HRM should look at a similar reversing lane scheme for Quinpool Road (HOV lane plus two general lanes in the peak direction and one general lane in the off-peak direction; one general lane and one HOV lane each way during the day-time interlude in between the morning and afternoon peaks; with roadside parking only allowed between 12AM and 6AM; with this all subject to adjustment for major events). Special lane markings will be required to accommodate the left turn lanes at Vernon/Quingate, with the emphasis on through traffic to deflect to the right to go around the shifting left turn lane. The left turn lane signals would be a white LED left curved arrow (same as a left turn lane control sign), with a red X facing traffic in the wrong direction to the left turn lane (unless it's a two-way left turn lane, which would be represented by a white LED representation of two interlocking curved left arrows (think of it as an LED version of the existing two-way left turn lane control sign that you would see hung overhead, i.e. what you see over Main Street in Dartmouth).

I have also suggested that HRM look into metering signals for the Armdale Roundabout too, given that it is one of the busiest roundabouts in North America. It currently carries about 57, 000 vehicles per day.

Roundabout metering signals:
capacity, performance and timing


http://www.sidrasolutions.com/Cms_Da...thISHC2011.pdf

Ultimately, for the entire HRM road system, I believe that HOV lanes will be needed within the ultimate widths of all roads of class Arterial and above (at least one HOV lane in each direction), with HOV lanes also provided on major collectors when it is possible to do so. The road classes stated here are based on the proposed HRM Regional Plan that is scheduled to be passed this fall. To all other cities: In regards to this specific comment on universal HOV lane implementation on all major roads, regardless if higher orders of transit already exist, start taking notes.

I will say, as an aside, that I think the internet here is experiencing gridlock similar to the gridlock that is plaguing the Canadian road system, given that I have seen a spike in loading failures on many websites even when I access the internet from different locations. They need to severely clamp down on spam and excessive advertising because it's getting close to seizing up the entire internet (at least from what I'm seeing), where telecommunications infrastructure upgrades are currently unable to keep up.

Cheers,

Richard Kannegiesser

Last edited by rkannegi; Jun 13, 2013 at 6:35 AM.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2013, 1:46 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is online now
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Absolutely something needs to be done to reduce the bottleneck at the Fairview overpass for any of this to work. The "the vast amount of weave-related fighting" is one of the biggest snags there as I can see, as many drivers try to get into the "fastest" lane to get them to the overpass and then have to cross over 3 or 4 lanes of gridlock to get to their exit. Meanwhile, people coming from Fairview are trying to cross over to the left to get to the bridge or Barrington. It can be chaos at times.

Plus, rail transit needs to be an integral part of the scenario. Make it efficient, attractive and convenient for people to leave their cars in the car park and they will use it. I know this topic has been beat to death, but it it so obvious it is painful.

Or... just leave it as is and build a glut of residential downtown (in all price ranges, not just $400K+) so that the folks who choose to work downtown and just can't stand the traffic will decide to live closer to their work. Include downtown Dartmouth in the plan combined with increased/more frequent ferry service and things should improve.

That being said, in Toronto terms we don't really have traffic!

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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2013, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
That being said, in Toronto terms we don't really have traffic!
If we removed the unnecessary obstacles to flow that are created by poor design, neglect or simple intransigence - I refer to the Fairview Overpass, the uncontrolled left turns and lack of bus pullover on Joe Howe, the lack of adequate capacity on major routes ,the dumping of heavy traffic onto surface streets; the list is endless - then you would be correct. Tell it to the endless line of immobilized traffic I saw at rush hour today on the south end of Oxford St waiting to turn left onto Jubillee. They may still be there. Why they were there is a bit of a mystery - I assume downtown shortcutters.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2013, 11:33 PM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
If we removed the unnecessary obstacles to flow that are created by poor design, neglect or simple intransigence - I refer to the Fairview Overpass, the uncontrolled left turns and lack of bus pullover on Joe Howe, the lack of adequate capacity on major routes ,the dumping of heavy traffic onto surface streets; the list is endless - then you would be correct. Tell it to the endless line of immobilized traffic I saw at rush hour today on the south end of Oxford St waiting to turn left onto Jubillee. They may still be there. Why they were there is a bit of a mystery - I assume downtown shortcutters.
If our city councillors were not so intend in putting all of us in buses and worked to correct the obstacles, as should be their jobs, we would correct some of the problems.
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