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View Poll Results: How can we deal with the growing issue of crossing Halifax Harbour?
New Bridge (Third Crossing) 31 39.74%
Expand existing Mackay Bridge 2 2.56%
Total Replacement of a Current Bridge 6 7.69%
Tunnel 22 28.21%
More or Faster Ferries 15 19.23%
Leave it alone and use better mass transit options 21 26.92%
Other 2 2.56%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2011, 9:37 PM
RyeJay RyeJay is offline
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A rough visual of what I'm trying to convey:

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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2011, 11:20 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Okay I understand now - so you are basically calling on the bridge to go up over the westin and then quickly come down to South Street so that the ramp would begin somewhere on the hill - I get it; but that's a drastic grade shift from the peak height. I'm not sure how well that would work...

That's where I see the advantage of a tunnel. Yes, the cost is much greater but then the visual effect isn't there and it's not as constrained by location as a bridge would be. The location on the Dartmouth side would still be fixed to match up with the circumfrential, but the location on the Halifax side could end up under the railway cut and port (see the diagram from the HRM report).
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2011, 11:49 PM
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Ever been to Stanley Park?

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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2011, 12:10 AM
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I like this routing! It reminds me of the San Francisco Bay Bridge connecting San Fran and Oakland. It bridges an island like this too.

This route avoids the problems with the cruise ship terminal and the container port, keeps the bridge piers away from Georges Island and at the same time would open up McNabs Island for public access.

The major problem is that the bridge would not connect up directly with the Circumferential Highway on the Dartmouth side. I would imagine however that there would be more options to remediate this sort of a routing problem on the Dartmouth side of the harbour than there would be on the Halifax side.

Good job Empire for thinking outside the box!
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  #45  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2011, 1:13 AM
RyeJay RyeJay is offline
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I like Empire's display as well. McNabs would finally be a provincial park that more of the public could enjoy. I wonder how elevated the section connecting Eastern Passage with McNabs Island would have to be? Ships still use this side water route, I believe.
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  #46  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 12:27 AM
Pete Crawford Pete Crawford is offline
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I think Empire's route is really an inspired one. Connecting McNab's in a way that would (effectively) give us another Point Pleasant Park, and allow for some park-oriented development there is reason enough alone to choose that route. But it's really the only reasonable suggestion. Building a high bridge over George's Island would look horrid.

The problem I keep thinking about though is the over-land route from the container port to Barrington and Hollis streets. I assume it would have to be an elevated overpass. Also, landing that overpass to connect with the city roads would probably have to be done on the current Atlantic Superstore site (You can't just build a road through the Westin Nova Scotlan like the map suggests).

Even if it were a tunnel, are Barrington and Hollis really streets that can handle that kind of increase in traffic? They're slow enough as it is.

Any innovative ideas?
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  #47  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 1:09 AM
RyeJay RyeJay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Crawford View Post
I think Empire's route is really an inspired one. Connecting McNab's in a way that would (effectively) give us another Point Pleasant Park, and allow for some park-oriented development there is reason enough alone to choose that route. But it's really the only reasonable suggestion. Building a high bridge over George's Island would look horrid.
To distance this conversation from turning into something too simple, such as personal preference of aesthetics devolving into an exclusion of practical ideas, we need to also take into account the willingness of HRM to finance a much longer, much more expensive bridge project that completely misses the goal of a connection with the Circumferential Highway on the Dartmouth side of the harbour.

Just sayin
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 1:18 AM
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Would it really be a longer bridge? It seems like the McNabs-Point Pleasant span is shorter than the South End span would have to be.

I like that alignment.
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  #49  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 1:23 AM
Pete Crawford Pete Crawford is offline
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If you start the Dartmouth-McNabs span at Eisner Cove (seems a lot more practical) that's only about a two minute drive from the Circumferential. Maybe Pleasant St. could be widened. Nothing impossible.
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  #50  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 3:01 AM
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Friends of McNabs (guessing it exists) would shit their pants... but I like it.
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 3:21 AM
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Greater Halifax Tunnel



Why the focus on a bridge? This is a proposed tunnel route from a 2008 report by the Halifax Bridge Commission. Cross Harbour Traffic Needs Assessment

Last edited by jslath; Nov 28, 2011 at 3:40 AM.
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 5:48 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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My preference is mainly for the tunnel, but not in the design that is shown above. I would prefer some thought put into the tunnel design to incorporate an LRT right of way.

The great thing I see with the tunnel is that it would easily allow for the eventual connection of a tunnel under the NW arm to the mainland to be incorporated into the whole system.
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  #53  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 9:18 PM
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I love how this tunnel connects with Robie Street!
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  #54  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 9:23 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeJay View Post


I love how this tunnel connects with Robie Street!
I don't want to poo poo your bridge idea; it would certainly be interesting but when I champion the tunnel, I'm looking at the potential future need of a hard crossing onto the mainland and it seems from the tunnel design, it would allow for that future crossing.

With the bridge concept you proposed - it would connect to South Street, but then there would be a bunch of stop lights between the bridge (which would function as freeflow) to Robie Street where a potential NW Arm crossing would be. The tunnel wouldn't necessairily have that problem - although I suspect there would still be a traffic light at South/Robie.

If we could find a way to over come the problem of the freeflow issue to each crossing then a bridge could still work.
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  #55  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 10:00 PM
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A tunnel avoids a lot of problems and might actually be more practical as a third harbour crossing. The downside is that the price per lane is much higher.

Would a Northwest Arm tunnel work? It is an interesting idea but I don't know how deep the water is.

I'm also not so sure a bridge over the Arm would be such a problem. It could be small with, say, 3 reversing lanes, a bike path, nice pedestrian walkways, and maybe a space for a restaurant like the one in the Winnipeg pedestrian bridge. It could be sold as a benefit to South Enders since they'd be able to go over to Flemming Park. It does not have to be an ugly, utilitarian freeway-style bridge, and if it connects up to South Street it won't be close to many residents.
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  #56  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2011, 10:36 PM
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Greater Halifax Northwest Arm Crossing



There is a lot of high valued real estate along both sides of the Northwest Arm, so any potential crossing may be met with resistance. I always thought property alongside the Atlantic School of Theology would be a good compromise for a crossing and with a new bridge over the rail cut can be tied in with Robie Street.

Last edited by jslath; Nov 28, 2011 at 10:53 PM.
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2011, 3:42 PM
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a tunnel would be the best because it could utilize the rail-cut.
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2011, 6:03 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I wasn't sure where to put this; but I've been working on a map that integrated the bridge/tunnel concepts with potential future transportation concepts that have been discussed.

In addition, I've noted potential areas of redevelopment concentration which could be areas where TOD policies could be applied and intensification to high density could be encouraged.

The map link I've put in takes into account more of a tunnel concept, but the bridge concept could easily be done on the map.

I've added a number of streetcars, ferry links and I've managed to add 1 regional rail link.
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2011, 6:51 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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One question I would like to ask everyone, which jumped in my head this afternoon when I was reading about some transportation stuff (to modify my map):

Regardless if the 3rd crossing is a bridge or a tunnel, assuming that it includes a method to get a streetcar or an LRT across to the Dartmouth side, would this render the need for the Woodside ferry redundant?

I ask because now you'd have a high speed form of transit going across the harbour that would provide a greater capacity than the ferry - even though it might have a few stops before it got to Woodside?

I'd be interest to hear people's thoughts...
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 12, 2011, 7:48 AM
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I doubt the municipality would build an LRT line over the harbour anytime in the forseeable future, I think the only chance of that happening would be if Shearwater was redeveloped. I'm not sure that the local demand in Woodside for example warrants much more than the ferry,MetroLink route and regular buses that they already have. It seems like it's going to be a huge struggle to get LRT on the peninsula, I think it'll be decades before the municipality would build tracks in Dartmouth - especially because BRT is actually a lot more viable on the east side of the harbour, with long, uninterrupted, relatively wide streets and the Circ.

What I think would make more sense would be a bridge over the Northwest Arm for pedestrians and transit only. I think this should be built before a 3rd harbour crossing.
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