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View Poll Results: How many permanent seats should an expandable stadium in Halifax start with?
10,000 1 2.38%
14,000-15,000 3 7.14%
18,000-20,000 21 50.00%
24,000-25,000 16 38.10%
30,000+ 1 2.38%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2011, 11:02 PM
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Halifax Stadium Size

What should be the starting size for a new stadium in Halifax?

I say go bigger from the start in the 25,000 seat range.
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  #2  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2011, 11:16 PM
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I haven't voted yet. Part of the question is what will most likely to be obtainable.

If the question is: What size should a stadium be within 5 - 7 years then I would say 25,000. But if HRM has to start with only 15,000 in order to obtain that goal then I would hope for the path that will lead to a 25,000 permanent seat stadium within 5 - 7 years. (one that can be expanded to 40,000 - 45,000 whenever necessary)
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  #3  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2011, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I haven't voted yet. Part of the question is what will most likely to be obtainable.

If the question is: What size should a stadium be within 5 - 7 years then I would say 25,000. But if HRM has to start with only 15,000 in order to obtain that goal then I would hope for the path that will lead to a 25,000 permanent seat stadium within 5 - 7 years. (one that can be expanded to 40,000 - 45,000 whenever necessary)
Any stadium would be better than what we have, but I look at other examples around the world, and I believe that seat count will really open the stadium up to hosting other events and can be still affordable at 25,000.
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  #4  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2011, 11:22 PM
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I voted for 18,000 - 20,000 because I think it might be an obtainable objective.
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  #5  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2011, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I voted for 18,000 - 20,000 because I think it might be an obtainable objective.
I would be happy with that as well, although even 22,000-25,000 would really get us CFL ready.
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  #6  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2011, 11:25 PM
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I also voted 18-20 because it seems more obtainable

I think more is needed in time but hopefully that will come with the success of the first 20k seats .
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  #7  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2011, 11:27 PM
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Maybe I should have had an option for 20,000-24,000.
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  #8  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2011, 12:43 AM
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18k-20k, would be great , at that point if a CFL owner came forth it would not be such a stretch to expand(at the owners expense).... But is more likely happen than the 25k, off the hop
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  #9  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2011, 1:09 AM
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The stadium designers think that this should be a soccer specific stadium. I thought it was supposed to be multipurpose? Don't they understand that endzone seats don't work for the CFL or CIS football?

I don't think many on the design team have been to football games. It isn't just the distance from the field that makes endzone seats poor for football viewing, it is because the defensive line stands in front of the offensive line and vice versa.

The same thing happened in Toronto - BMO Field was built to exclude football and the Argonauts. That works in Toronto because Toronto has the MLS but it will be a mistake in Halifax.
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  #10  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2011, 2:59 AM
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I have watched the last 2 public consultations on November 16th and November 17th. I am completely infuriated by the direction that it is going in. The residents who have turned out have overwhelmingly wanted to be impressed - "go big" is the most common statement that I hear. But the architect (Conrad Boychuk) keeps telling them that it should be a small scale community stadium. To paraphrase him - "a spectator oriented stadium will be a white elephant". Why can't it be a stadium used for community sports with enough seats for large spectator events such as the CFL?

One concept that I liked was the 7,000 permanent seats on each side (14K total). I took a screen capture image from the 4th consultation and posted it below. This was an image presented by the stadium architect Conrad Boychuk. I would like it better with more rows in the upper and lower tiers and 10,000 permanent seats on each side (20K total along the sodelines). I would like it even better if the sideline seats were somewhat rounded to provide a better view of the field.

This concept even has room at the top of the second tier for VIP suites and media facilities.


Last edited by fenwick16; Nov 20, 2011 at 3:25 AM.
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  #11  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2011, 5:10 PM
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I voted for 18-20k as well. Seems like a good starting point and if we had 20k seats maybe the CFL would make an exception.

I wonder why MonctonRad voted for 10k?....just wondering?

MonctonRad...we can see right through you....
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Last edited by Empire; Nov 18, 2011 at 6:24 PM.
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  #12  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2011, 6:13 PM
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Two issues I can think of with 10,000 seats:

1) Same size as Metro Centre, so there's too much overlap as a concert/event venue.
2) There are many fixed costs for building any stadium. For example, you have to build a field whether there are 10,000 seats or 20,000 seats. There might need to be transportation upgrades and other improvements. I could easily see this being a case where the city gets 2x the seats by paying 20% more. I think the "sweet spot" for seats in Halifax is much higher than 10,000.

I said something around 18,000-20,000 is good because it seeems like this could be regularly filled by what Halifax already has or could easily host in terms of SMU football games, concerts, etc. The CFL is probably not required to make an 18,000-20,000 seat stadium viable, and if they are interested the stadium can be expanded.

When it comes to any smaller staduim design I think the key is to plan for expansion. If Halifax does get only a 10,000 seat stadium but it is well-planned it will be easy to bid on another event and spend maybe $10-20M to bring the venue up to 20,000 seats.
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  #13  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2011, 8:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire View Post


MonctonRad...we can see right through you....
That' a good one. It didn't take me long to get it either.
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  #14  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2011, 1:11 AM
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After seeing some Uteck Bowl on TSN in Moncton, it looks like a big failure. I'd be surprised if there are 3,000 in the stands, because the bigger side looks empty. The only thing this Uteck Bowl move accomplished was to fire up HRM into to going after a new stadium for Halifax.

Can't really fault Moncton though, since they don't have a team in the game.

Also Monctonrad's vote for 10,000 seats doesn't count since he is just trying to keep Halifax down.
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  #15  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2011, 1:59 AM
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I'm watching the game right now. I think you are being gracious with 3000. That doesn't look good at all on national TV. Hopefully this time next year we can be well on our way to getting the Uteck back in the city it belongs.
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  #16  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2011, 2:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I have watched the last 2 public consultations on November 16th and November 17th. I am completely infuriated by the direction that it is going in. The residents who have turned out have overwhelmingly wanted to be impressed - "go big" is the most common statement that I hear. But the person who seems to be running the show (Conrad) keeps telling them that it should be a small scale community stadium. To paraphrase him - "a spectator oriented stadium will be a white elephant".

Why can't it be a stadium used for community sports with enough seats for large spectator events such as the CFL?

If Conrad can't listen to what the residents keep saying then it is time to demand that someone who will listen be put in charge. Just my opinion. Who is this Conrad? What is his position? Watching him talk to people, it just seems like he is getting frustrated that people won't accept his idea of going small. If he gets his way then this stadium will be a mistake.
I completely agree. It's actually somewhat awkward how this stadium is being kept at a small scale, despite all the calls to plan something bigger.

This most recent public meeting I found, to my surprise, touching. To see so many people verbalise their pride for this city...

People want this stadium to be something we can all admire. Of course we need to be cost-effective and budgetary--but we can't pinch our pennies so tightly that we leave ourselves with a tiny community stadium that is entirely unapplicable to the CFL's periphery.

I love how people expressed desire to make this a unique looking building. Our under-construction library was mentioned numerous times, in how it is a success in terms of communication with the public to create a building we can brag about. People want to be able to brag about Atlantic Stadium.

This was made clear at the meeting. It was nice to see people give a damn.

By the way, what are people thinking about the 'waves' concept, if the stadium's location was Shannon Park?...
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  #17  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2011, 4:42 AM
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I agree with Rye's point on people vocalizing their pride in the region. I thought it was great and very important.

The problem is that if you want to build/design a stadium that is a (using some of the words expressed during that meeting) "iconic or stunning" - the cost will go up. I loved the idea of waves or things like that, but the roof is probably premature or not really going to happen until in the future.

All that aside, I also agree with the fact that it's annoying that the size keeps being towards the fifa requirement and not thinking about the future. CFL requirement is 25,000 seats (permanent) isn't it? What surprises me is sticking with 20k total (10/10) - when considering how popular fifa events usually end up being, wouldn't a 25k seat stadium (say 15/10 perm vers temp seats) would likely fill up for the event too?
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  #18  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2011, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by q12 View Post
After seeing some Uteck Bowl on TSN in Moncton, it looks like a big failure. I'd be surprised if there are 3,000 in the stands, because the bigger side looks empty. The only thing this Uteck Bowl move accomplished was to fire up HRM into to going after a new stadium for Halifax.

Can't really fault Moncton though, since they don't have a team in the game
The final announced attendance for the game (on TSN) was 3,726. They seemed pleased. The west grandstand was nearly full (I know - I was sitting there with my son).

The east grandstand was mostly empty for a reason. It was a cold night (-2C) with a westerly breeze. It was damn cold enough where we were sitting. I can't imagine what it was like in the other grandstand!

When I purchased our tickets, I did so with the weather in mind. I'm sure a lot of people did. The west grandstand is sheltered from a cold westerly breeze. Attendance would have been a lot higher if the game had been played on a Saturday afternoon. The weather today in Moncton is supposed to be sunny and 8C. That would have definitely made a difference.

If you guys wanted to see an empty stadium, you should have watched the other semi final game from Calgary. McMahon Stadium was nearly completely empty!!! TSN announced the attendance at that game was only 1,584, so there were more than twice as many people at the game in Moncton!!! Of course, the fact it was -18C at gametime in Calgary probably had something to do with it......

As for the comment about Moncton not having "a team in the game", it seems to me that Halifax would not have had a team in the game either. . In any event, there are six Monctonians on the Axemen team, four of whom just happen to be graduates from my sons high school (BMHS). MacNaughton High just captured the NB provincial high school football championship last week for the fifth time in eight years. My son is a safety on the BMHS Highlanders, and the championship game (at Moncton's Rocky Stone Field) was played before nearly 4,500 fans.

There is a football culture in Moncton no matter how much you guys want to deny it.......
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Last edited by MonctonRad; Nov 19, 2011 at 5:19 PM.
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  #19  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2011, 3:28 PM
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One big advantage of starting with a 20K seat stadium is that it will provide an immediate emphasis for the formation of a CFL team - assuming the stadium is designed with most of the seats along the FIFA sideline soccer goal-lines (which are close to Canadian football goal-lines). Once such a stadium design is proposed then a community non-profit corporation could be setup to sell shares in the team, for example 20,000 shares of $500 would generate $10 million dollars for the franchise fee and start up costs. Additional revenue before the first season (maybe 2015) could be generated from season ticket sales, merchandise sales, TV rights, and corporate sponsorship before the first season ever begins.

The thing that amazed me about the public consultations is that there were elderly people there who wanted to see a CFL team in Halifax; so a CFL team isn't just for the sake of younger people. There are many Nova Scotians and Maritimers who want a national Maritime team to cheer for.

If a stadium is designed for 20K then part of the effort of forming a CFL team will be in getting the stadium expanded from 20K to 25K. (it could be a franchise condition from the CFL). The HRM would then have an anchor tenant for the stadium and it would likely receive much more for stadium naming rights.
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  #20  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2011, 6:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
If you guys wanted to see an empty stadium, you should have watched the other semi final game from Calgary. McMahon Stadium was nearly completely empty!!! TSN announced the attendance at that game was only 1,584, so there were more than twice as many people at the game in Moncton!!! Of course, the fact it was -18C at gametime in Calgary probably had something to do with it......

There is a football culture in Moncton no matter how much you guys want to deny it.......
I did watch the better part of that game. I have to agree, I pretty much stuck my foot in my mouth when I saw their stands. Ok, fine it was -18 at game time but it's also Calgary where the football fans are used to cold games. Even if it had of been +18 I still don't think another 1500 fans or so would have made the game. Pretty bad that the "home" team only drew that many.
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