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  #1  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2012, 9:51 PM
Antigonish Antigonish is offline
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2012 Metro Transit Strike

As an outsider can anybody here give me a perspective on how Halifax is handling the transit strike that started in effect today?

I've been following and reading about this for a few days, and I'm begining to get a bit discusted with the transit union. Any banter on the subject would welcome!
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  #2  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2012, 10:20 PM
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I'm also slightly interested in this whole situation from afar. It's tough to sort of find the truth when reading or listening to the media, so any sort of background on the situation would be lovely.
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  #3  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISH89 View Post
As an outsider can anybody here give me a perspective on how Halifax is handling the transit strike that started in effect today?

I've been following and reading about this for a few days, and I'm begining to get a bit discusted with the transit union. Any banter on the subject would welcome!
It was a great preview of how traffic will look in a few years if we don't improve transit and fix the bottlenecks. Traffic was a nightmare. Highway 102 backed up past Lacewood Dr., Magazine hill had massive back up, the circ was backed up beyond mic mac if not further at peak traffic.
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Old Posted Feb 2, 2012, 11:16 PM
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Read the comments on todays Globe and Mail Story (The people are not happy with the union):

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...3646/comments/
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  #5  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 12:19 AM
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http://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/...ursday-morning

A Coast article that sums up the situation pretty well. The municipality and the union are bickering over details that do not seem anywhere near important enough to justify the massive inconveniences caused by the strike, and neither side seems ready to budge. A few people are in support of the union, a lot of people are very unimpressed with the union, and everyone just wants this thing to end. And it's only been one day.

I attend Dal but live near Fleming Park. I used to complain about having to take the 15 to school (runs on the hour and requires a transfer at Mumford, which often turns a 10 minute drive into an hour+ commute). But not having transit at all is way more inconvenient than I would have even imagined. Not many of my friends drive, my parents are on a completely different schedule from mine, a cab to dal costs about $15 from my place, and it would take about an hour each way to walk. Biking would be a bit faster, but not much because of all the hills.
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Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 12:38 AM
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I wonder how Mr.Dexter feels about this union? Hmmmmmmmmm....
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Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 1:02 AM
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The main thing I noticed was the traffic back-up from the MacKay tolls up the 111. This is nothing new.....except it was 9:30 in the morning. The kind of traffic I am used to seeing at 8:30am had continued over an hour later.
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  #8  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 1:07 AM
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I wonder how Mr.Dexter feels about this union? Hmmmmmmmmm....
Darrell Dexter was asked if he thought public transit should be considered an essential service and "declined to comment".
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  #9  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 1:09 AM
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Oh, also, Halifax Water employees are now in a legal position to strike. Not sure what the effects of that would be.. I assume it would be easier to train some people to do the water commission's job (which I admit I know little about) than to license a new fleet of bus drivers...
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  #10  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 1:40 AM
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The bridge pedestrian lane sure was busy this morning! My work was actually pretty quiet. My hunch is that a lot of people staggered their work hours, maybe worked from home or took time. My guess is that if they don't settle this over the weekend, it'll be even messier on Monday. They really should be an essential service with contracts settled through binding arbitration. This strike seems to be over scheduling. Scheduling!?!? Surely that could be arbitrated or mediated. Transit strikes just hurt everyone. Business loses employees, traffic congestion inconveniences many, more greenhouse gases, if it drags on raises for workers are wiped out by lost wages and some people stop using transit for good. Sadly though, the strike really hurts those who can least afford it. The poor who can't afford anything else and the elderly, many of whom, can't just walk to where they need to go. It's a sad day for HRM and worse yet, the whole thing could repeat in 2 years since whatever contract they eventually sign will be almost half done. Settle this and it's pretty much right back to bargaining.
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  #11  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 9:04 AM
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Fair Play?

What safeguards are in place to ensure that management does not put 'red herring' offers on the table to distract from their real demands, or to force a strike so they can save a few million dollars on service expenses before they actually begin serious negotiating?

Forcing employees to strike for a few weeks first does not cost management anything because they know the unions will return to the table and restart negotiations as usual anyway. So why not force a strike first and save a few bucks beforehand?

What are the safeguards to ensure this does not take place? Are there any? If the union just goes back to the table as usual, without somehow making management pay for underhanded negotiating, than this is how the city will do all of their negotiating with unions. If the city can save money and have the public blame the unions before they even actually get to their real demands, than what is to stop them from playing that way?

Isn't it just common sense to make exorbitant demands to begin with, knowing they will be refused, and than drop them later suggesting that they have now made concessions?

Cmon people, this is how they play the game, and you are all suffering on the sidelines. Where are the darned safeguards?
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  #12  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 2:30 PM
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Once you get into a union environment, the only safeguards are those found in the labor code. Unions like the ATU make "demands" and do not seem to know what the word "negotiation" means. Here's a hint: it does not mean getting every one of your "demands" satisfied. The union wants more of whatever it likes that is in the contract; the other side wants less of what it doesn't like about the contract. That's what negotiation is all about, finding the common ground. A strike, in this context, only hurts the union and the public.

The ATU has lost virtually any goodwill it may have previously enjoyed from the public at large thanks to its unimpressive President's appearances in the media and the reporting of what they are striking over: a ridiculous work scheduling protocol that does not take into account the needs of the serivce nor its customers, but instead is designed to let the inmates run the asylum. Transit management is quite correct in trying to minimize the effects of this, which s something that never should have been granted in the first place and which now clearly needs to go. The constantly changing story from the union about what they want has done them no favors either, and now that the truth seems to be coming out, no wonder people are pissed at them.

I hope HRM is exploring options for a privatized transit operation or at least the possibility of hiring new drivers if the union refuses to budge from their unreasonable demands.
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  #13  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I hope HRM is exploring options for a privatized transit operation or at least the possibility of hiring new drivers if the union refuses to budge from their unreasonable demands.

Yeah, you don't sound biased at all there friend. Ya might want to try to camouflage that just a little.

So you think its alright for the city to come to the table with demands that they know from past contracts are strike issues and non negotiable, so that they can than toss those to make it look like they are conceding something, and than claim that because they now made concessions that the union must now accept their real demands without negotiation.

man, i hope yopu are not as easy to fool in your own personal finances.

You may not understand the whole issue of red herrings at these negotiations, but your ignorance of that sort of tactic does not mean it isnt taking place.

Why don't you try understanding what was written and questioned instead of just blatantly tell us what you think of a profession that you obviously know absolutely nothing about.

To suggest that a person who drives a city bus throughout the city intersections eight to ten hours a day and more, often without any substantial break like most people get for lunch and morning and afternoons, while at the same time having to be completely focused and concentrating, never able to daydream or lose that focus for even a miniute, while at the same time watching every single bus stop for waiting pasengers, while at the same time being aware of passengers wanting to get off the bus, while at the same time trying their best to stay on scedule and meet up with connections, is doing an easy job, is in my opinion the height of ignorance. We arent out there driving along on the highway by our lonesome. We are dealing constantly with busy intersections and people every minute of our working day. Many people have tried the job and cannot do it because of the stress factor. I highly doubt that someoine with your attitude would last for one day, if that.
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  #14  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 7:08 PM
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Originally Posted by amiefrost View Post
Yeah, you don't sound biased at all there friend. Ya might want to try to camouflage that just a little.
It's not "Bias". It is trying to get the best value for my tax dollars. That does not involve giving my hard-earned money to fund wasteful practices.

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So you think its alright for the city to come to the table with demands that they know from past contracts are strike issues and non negotiable, so that they can than toss those to make it look like they are conceding something, and than claim that because they now made concessions that the union must now accept their real demands without negotiation.
Everything is negotiable. The idea that something is not is the root of your problem. I suggest you go back to the table with an additional "demand": that the employer fund a course for every member in Negotiating 101, since clearly nobody in that union has a clue what it means. That is a "demand" that I might be willing to support.

Quote:
Why don't you try understanding what was written and questioned instead of just blatantly tell us what you think of a profession that you obviously know absolutely nothing about.

To suggest that a person who drives a city bus throughout the city intersections eight to ten hours a day and more, often without any substantial break like most people get for lunch and morning and afternoons, while at the same time having to be completely focused and concentrating, never able to daydream or lose that focus for even a miniute, while at the same time watching every single bus stop for waiting pasengers, while at the same time being aware of passengers wanting to get off the bus, while at the same time trying their best to stay on scedule and meet up with connections, is doing an easy job, is in my opinion the height of ignorance. We arent out there driving along on the highway by our lonesome. We are dealing constantly with busy intersections and people every minute of our working day. Many people have tried the job and cannot do it because of the stress factor. I highly doubt that someoine with your attitude would last for one day, if that.
What are you going on about? I made no comments whatsoever close to anything related to that blather. Perhaps there is a compensation problem here as well.
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  #15  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 7:17 PM
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I honestly can't stand these bus drivers, they feel that they are the only ones with problems. The fact is it's your job, so why can't you just accept that or quit if you are unhappy with it. You're already way overpaid for such a simple job, that requires no education and now they feel that they should screw the people of the city over just because the city won't agree to your demands. There are plenty of people out there that would be perfectly happy with those jobs.

Good luck surviving on $100 a week, I can't wait til the city does away with metro transit and privatizes transit. Then you can really have something to bitch about.
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  #16  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 7:51 PM
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It would be very interesting if we could move to automated vehicles over the next 10-20 years. Google has been working on developing autonomous cars for a while now, and it is not hard to imagine control systems that would be much safer than human drivers. Such systems would save billions of dollars and could increase road capacity tremendously. You also wouldn't need parking at every destination because the cars could drive themselves off to a lot somewhere.

What a great future. Too bad it is exactly the sort of situation that something like a transit union would fight tooth and nail to avoid!

We need to move past the focus on employment and labour. That focus made sense in 1900 but does not make sense in 2012. We should be focusing on living standards for everybody so that the benefits do not go only to the rich, but we are almost totally ignoring that angle because we are trapped in a 1970s mindset. Unions will lead us to waste huge sums of money to compensate a minority for doing unnecessary jobs that will lower our overall productivity. Sadly even the union employees will not be that happy because they will do repetitive, meaningless work. The leading countries in the future will focus on education and high living standards for everybody so as many people as possible can contribute meaningfully to science and technology.
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  #17  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2012, 8:00 PM
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It would be very interesting if we could move to automated vehicles over the next 10-20 years. Google has been working on developing autonomous cars for a while now, and it is not hard to imagine control systems that would be much safer than human drivers. Such systems would save billions of dollars and could increase road capacity tremendously. You also wouldn't need parking at every destination because the cars could drive themselves off to a lot somewhere.

What a great future. Too bad it is exactly the sort of situation that something like a transit union would fight tooth and nail to avoid!

We need to move past the focus on employment and labour. That focus made sense in 1900 but does not make sense in 2012. We should be focusing on living standards for everybody so that the benefits do not go only to the rich, but we are almost totally ignoring that angle because we are trapped in a 1970s mindset. Unions will lead us to waste huge sums of money to compensate a minority for doing unnecessary jobs that will lower our overall productivity. Sadly even the union employees will not be that happy because they will do repetitive, meaningless work. The leading countries in the future will focus on education and high living standards for everybody so as many people as possible can contribute meaningfully to science and technology.
Yet, Dexter wants to force more big unions?

What a tool , I hope he is paying close attention to what is happening here....

Automated vehicles have been possible for quite some time now, (over 15 yrs ) using magnets in the roads and in the vehicle, along with sensors for distance between them , but the problem is having all these magnets put every where and the cost of doing it . I am sure they must be in development of a cheaper different way of doing so using GPS or some thing , that would be neat
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  #18  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 3:55 PM
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I live in North Dartmouth and work downtown...taking a cab every day is too expensive so I walk....Bus took me 20 minutes...It takes me over an hour to walk
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  #19  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 4:04 PM
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Part timers

I hear lots of bus drivers complaining about the stress of the job. May I suggest we switch to only part timers, might alleviate some of the stress and ease up on scheduling. Better for everyone, no overtime.
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  #20  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2012, 4:47 PM
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If you want to see what these clowns are striking to protect, take a look at the collective agreement:

http://applications.atucanada.ca/con...%202011-08.pdf


No wonder they don't want any changes tot he scheduling system. It is so unmanageable that it must take an entire union sub-local to administer it. No surprise that management wants to change that, as it is unworkable in any rational sense. Plus all the other usual pork found in typical public sector union contracts.

After reading this, I am more firmly than ever of the belief that Metro Transit cannot be fixed and must be blown up.
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