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  #1  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2013, 11:47 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Rapid Transit in the Halifax area

I would like to start this new thread for "Rapid Transit in the Halifax area". I feel that it should be a thread that includes all forms of rapid transit including Bus Rapid Transit instead of being limited to rail transit.

I feel that a lot of good information that has been posted in other threads on Right of Way (ROW) routes. There is a Rail Transit thread, Bus Rapid Transit and Metro Transit thread so maybe this thread is redundant, if so, then the moderators can remove this one. (maybe the Rail Transit thread could be renamed as a Rapid Transit thread, or the Bus Rapid Transit could be renamed to Rapid Transit?)

I would like to see information in this thread on ideas for Rapid Transit in the HRM and then hopefully contributors will start contacting municipal Councillors and provincial leaders with the ideas posted. There are many systems throughout the world that could be used as examples.
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  #2  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2013, 1:01 AM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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Thank you Fenwick.

I too would like to see concepts on rapid transit other than commuter rail.

I do not think that commuter rail is the answer to transit problems in Halifax.
Very few people live or work along the rail lines.

I much perfer we talk about where we want rapid transit rather than following some trail from the past.
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  #3  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2013, 7:21 PM
19200 19200 is offline
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The concept of the thread is good, I must however disagree with the previous post.

The majority of people live along rail lines. It's what laid out most of the country away from the waters edge.

Take a peek at a map, and the proximity of the towns hamlets and villages. The 102 runs close to a rail artery, the 101 close to one, etc etc. It's what built the country.

The big thing about all attractive modes is that they must be removed from roads. The number of cars on the roads plays havoc with rapid bus transit for example.

You can't have your fast bus sitting on the MacDonald Bridge for 14min if it's supposed to be fast.
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  #4  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2013, 7:37 PM
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I really like the idea of LRT, or streetcar/tram.

Two ideal area's are from the Alderney Ferry Terminal to Main St/Forest Hills, and from D town Hfx, to Lacewood area.

What routing do we need to do that, and how do we use the grades to our advantage?

Swiss Rail has some neat cog systems on their regular trains to take on higher grades in the Alps. Borrow the idea?
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Old Posted Feb 18, 2013, 8:14 PM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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I would like to point out the map that Waye Mason posted to the rail transit thread. I have not figured out how to copy it to this thread, but it shows the density in the Halifax area.
It shows greater density along Dunbrack St and very little density along the Bedford Highway, greater density in upper Bedford and lighter density along the Bedford Highway. It shows density in Sackville following Sackville Dr and the closest rail is over at Windsor Junction.
The density along the rail cut is very low.
It shows greater density from the rotary to downtown between Chebucto and Quinpool, over to Spring Garden and on to downtown.
It shows greater density downtown and north between Gottingen and Robie north to Young St.
The densest areas are those where we should be putting rapid transit.
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Old Posted Feb 18, 2013, 9:43 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax View Post
I would like to point out the map that Waye Mason posted to the rail transit thread. I have not figured out how to copy it to this thread, but it shows the density in the Halifax area.
It shows greater density along Dunbrack St and very little density along the Bedford Highway, greater density in upper Bedford and lighter density along the Bedford Highway. It shows density in Sackville following Sackville Dr and the closest rail is over at Windsor Junction.
The density along the rail cut is very low.
It shows greater density from the rotary to downtown between Chebucto and Quinpool, over to Spring Garden and on to downtown.
It shows greater density downtown and north between Gottingen and Robie north to Young St.
The densest areas are those where we should be putting rapid transit.
I completely agree regarding an urban rapid transit system (whether it be BRT or LRT), which this thread is intended to focus on. The rail cut might be suitable for commuter rail to Bedford (which is dealt with in the Rail Transit thread). The big difference between commuter rail to Bedford and a rapid urban transit system will be that a rapid urban transit system will be meant to accommodate large passenger load numbers with very frequent service. I see a Bedford rail service as being mainly during rush hour, as is the case with the GTA GO train system for some outlying communities (off-peak hours are served by buses for some outlying communities).

I think for rapid transit to be successful on the Halifax side, it should have connections to the downtown core, Spring Garden and universities. Ideally it should also have a connection off the peninsula (to the Halifax Shopping Centre area) so that people can park and take the rapid transit system to work and university and thereby limit passenger cars on the peninsula.

Here is the map that Waye Mason posted:


Last edited by fenwick16; Feb 20, 2013 at 4:20 AM.
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  #7  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 12:40 AM
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brt

The map is quite well presented isn't it.

So what is the best way to get those dense area's in Lacewood/Parkland, and Spryfield and surrounding connected to the peninsula during rush hour?

How do folks feel about closing a road during rush hour to allow a dedicated bus right of way? The political cost would be high, but it would work well wouldn't it.

Thoughts?

Would it be best to try and run two routes, or funnel both area's to one common route?
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  #8  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 2:17 AM
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1 - higher order transit serves both the people who live within a catchment area (trams it is 200 metres, subway stations up to 1km) but also can be significant hubs creating high speed connections between areas.

2 - A rail setup would serve directly a significant part of the population, even on current rails. Here is 1km and some 500m radius of likely stations of a peninsula commuter rail (this is all notional for demonstration purposes, does not include tram stops in down etc).



So what, 50-60% of the peninsula is covered?

3 - I think in the medium term an HOV/bus priority lane on Quinpool/Coberg and maybe Robie would fill the holes and provide connectivity to rail.

4 - the staff report says with 4 stations on the old Budd cars that Via station to Bedford Moirs is 21 minutes. It would be slightly longer with more stations. To me the goal is more about getting people in from Bedford/Sackville/Fall River to downtown, I think a park and ride at Moirs, a station at Sunnyside, and a huge park and ride at Duke Street (to be where the 107 comes in) and the buses in bedford and especially sackville routing to the stations is key. we know the park and ride model works, look at the MetroLink from Portland Hills.

5 - the biggest thing to me about rail to Bedford is the rail bypasses the 21 current lanes of traffic on and off the peninsula using existing infrastructure, which cuts costs by an order of magnitude from building it all from scratch, and provides value to users by giving dependable service (like the ferry does, and the bus usually does not, sadly).
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  #9  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 5:14 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Before I repost the concept I have been tinkering with, I wanted to come back and talk about the idea of LRT/rail in the road when part of street network. Since I work for the City of Calgary, I have to walk to work each day crossing 7 Avenue at the location of the new City Hall Transit station, so I see what goes on all the time.

My only concern when a streetcar/lrt is put into street traffic is this (and I should preface this by saying I'm huge fan of streetcars): With Calgary's current setup for the LRT, all it takes is one person to hold the doors on a train to completely foul up the entire street network for the trains. I realize these are rare, but they are happening more than you might think. For instance, last week on Thursday both on my way into work and on my way home the LRT cars were stacked up for blocks because of issues with people holding trains at City Hall. When I say for blocks - all the way to the 4 Avenue station (as far as I could see), a train in each block they could be in.

Putting the system underground wouldn't stop these sorts of delays, but the traffic lights wouldn't add to the problem of resolving the congestion. The trains lose time because they can't make a light and then have to wait - a problem that wouldn't occur if a system was underground.

Now after saying this, I realize that this really puts a damper into my streetcar idea. But I think that can be overcome by ensuring that at strategic points (where the road right-of-way is wide enough) the streetcar has a dedicated area for movement and that at major intersections, transit priority signals always give the streetcar priority.

While I appreciate we want to be smart with spending money (and I'm no fan of spending billions of $ just because we can), my vision and goal would be to see a quality reliable service built. I don't know if that's what you would get with extending regional rail down Hollis/Lower Water or putting a Calgary style LRT downtown in a street. But that's just my two cents...

That said, I don't think you can avoid it with urban streetcars, but my 'solution' above, should help with the issue of getting through traffic.
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Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 5:29 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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So here is my contribution to the discussion of Regional Higher order transit. Some of you may have seen this before, I've been refining it a bit.

Some explanation is probably required. What I've done with this design is used some logical future thinking of needed infrastructure over the next 5 to 20 years and used them as opportunities not just to focus on cars, but also to look for opportunities for higher order transit. So when the times comes for a 3rd harbour crossing - lets put in an LRT tunnel. When the MacDonald eventually needs to be replaced (due to age), same thing - add an LRT track. Eventually a NW Arm link will be needed, add LRT to the mix.

The plan doesn't really put a timeline for all this to be built out, I'm guessing between 25 and 50 years (at least). There are three forms of higher order transit here:
  1. Urban Streetcar (Tram);
  2. LRT (similar to Calgary or Vancouver); and
  3. High Speed Ferry.
Part of the routing goes back to what I spoke of earlier, serving key trip generation locations (employment centres, downtown, shopping destinations) but also focuses on a multi-modal approach. This way, it builds redundancy into the network so that if one system goes down you may have other options. For example: I've assumed Shannon Park would be the location of the future stadium (that's my preference) - so it has a streetcar, LRT and future high speed ferry. If the ferry is unable to be in service, there are other options available to get there. This way, one service may be crowded at the beginning but as other forms of transit come on line, they begin to take the load as well.

I've used Vancouver's skytrain system as a model and most routes begin/end at "Waterfront" station, which is essentially the ferry terminal. Scotia Square will also be a key interconnection point, as the Waterfront Station would have 4 of the 5 lines departing from it. 2 lines would follow a shared track in a curved direction from Waterfront up to SS (under the Historic Properties) while the other two would have a curve direction in an opposite direction going up the hill and eventually under Barrington. They would then branch off in their respective directions.

The streetcars uses a philosophy of 'shared routing' as much as possible. The Agricola/Windsor SCs share the same track starting at the Armoury into downtown along Hollis and the same outbound track back to the Armoury. The same is true for the two Dartmouth SC's along Wyse Road.

All forms of transit will become catalysts for redevelopment, so I've focused the SC's mainly on existing corridors in the Regional Centre plan to bolster, support and increase density. The same is true for some of the LRT routes, but they are also being used to create suburban pockets of density as well (Portland Street is great example of a future suburban TOD corridor).

There is also a crosstown link from Sackville/Bedford to Dartmouth and a future routing to the Airport. Where the LRT or SC lines would be hitting potential future greenfield sites, they can be used as means to create much denser urban neighbourhoods centred around a transit oriented village, then dropping in scale and height as you get away from the station.

The one issue I haven't resolved is whether I'm more of a Calgary/Edmonton type LRT fan (where you create designated LRT priority crossings at grade) or more of a Vancouver Skytrain elevated fan. I realize with an elevated system, these is much more cost, but I have to admit the fact that it's automated and wouldn't require as much human investment for operators (thus if there is a strike it could still run) has it's perks!

Enjoy!
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  #11  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 9:48 AM
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I just wish that Dartmouth wasn't so difficult in terms of finding an LRT corridor. Despite all of Halifax's issues, compared to Dartmouth it looks easy. There's the railcut, a few fairly wide streets, and being on a peninsula makes travel patterns easy to predict.

But with Dartmouth, if an LRT goes over one of the bridges or across a new tunnel, then what? Where the would it go? The current rail corridor is not that populated enough and doesn't that near major destinations other than NSCC and Alderny which are both already near the ferry. And I don't want the LRT to go right downtown and put the ferries put of commission. And the routes to Micmac, Penhorn and Tacoma are fairly narrow and very "housey"meaning the route would be either mixed traffic (slow) or have a via duct/ROW which would be $$ and attract outrageous levels of NIMBYism.

The only option I can think of is for the LRT to cross the harbour and then stop at the current Bridge terminal and at a new terminal near the MacKay, which would be fed by express buses using new dedicated transit lanes on the Circ. This in theory would allow some use of the Dartmouth waterfront LRT.

This of course is assuming that on the Hfx side the LRT would travel from the narrows crossing to downtown, then enter the rail cut.
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  #12  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 11:20 AM
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I have a Master's of Planning thesis here on my computer that outlines running rail in Dartmouth from Wright Avenue to Woodside on the CN rail. It would be really inexpensive, especially given the two main stations, Alderney and Woodside, basically need a siding and that is it.

Maybe eventually do a rail link along side the 107 extension, or accept teh big loop out to Windsor Junction.

I can accept that people take rail and HOV to the ferry terminals and the ferry is what will carry them downtown, though I could see a rail link on the 3rd bridge, which I think is more likely to be a twin of the Mackay than crossing at Woodside/Halterm.
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Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 11:32 AM
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Last edited by W.Sobchak; Feb 20, 2013 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Points already raised
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Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 4:55 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I don't think it's as problematic as you think. There will be some pinch points, but I think Portland Street has great potential. When I was doing my suggested plan, I went into the online mapping for HRM to look at just how wide the right-of-way for Portland was from Penhorn all the way to the Parkway in Cole Harbour. It's actually pretty wide and with some reasonable work to re-design and possibly 'borrowing' a couple feet form a few properties here and there, I have every confidence you could put an LRT line down one side or up the middle of Portland. The pinch point will likely be where the MacDonald's is, I think that's as wide as it can get.

The other thing to keep in mind is developing relationships with what I call the 'Provincial Brothers' (aka Department of Transportation). The circumfrential highway ROW is huge but only (I'm guessing) 40% used. There may be an ability to take a portion for a future LRT corridor without impeding future widening and in fact, I'd suggest that if that was possible it may negate the need for future widening. So the opportunities are all there; we just have to be willing to explore them.

My other concern with regional rail is the reluctance of CN to really get on board. I'm not sure if that's because of CN itself or because of the discussions which HRM has been having. I'm not in the room, so I don't know...but it seems to me that both sides are dragging their heals on it. By the time the discussion is done and something is agreed too, I suspect we'd at least have fast ferries and probably an urban streetcar.
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Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 8:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
I don't think it's as problematic as you think. There will be some pinch points, but I think Portland Street has great potential. When I was doing my suggested plan, I went into the online mapping for HRM to look at just how wide the right-of-way for Portland was from Penhorn all the way to the Parkway in Cole Harbour. It's actually pretty wide and with some reasonable work to re-design and possibly 'borrowing' a couple feet form a few properties here and there, I have every confidence you could put an LRT line down one side or up the middle of Portland. The pinch point will likely be where the MacDonald's is, I think that's as wide as it can get.

The other thing to keep in mind is developing relationships with what I call the 'Provincial Brothers' (aka Department of Transportation). The circumfrential highway ROW is huge but only (I'm guessing) 40% used. There may be an ability to take a portion for a future LRT corridor without impeding future widening and in fact, I'd suggest that if that was possible it may negate the need for future widening. So the opportunities are all there; we just have to be willing to explore them.
Bingo!

I'll be posting some work I've been doing recently on the Penhorn area and using standard Calgary-style LRT stops found on Crowfoot and 36 Ave NE one could be built on the north side of the Portland Street overpass and connect to Penhorn bus terminal with some help from N.S.T.I.R. There would be some minor expropriation to fix the ramps but the key thing is there will be NO DEMOLITION OF PRIVATE BUILDINGS which should keep these costs low.
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Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 9:42 PM
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Yes, the suburban part of Portland once you pass Gaston Rd is quite wide, it's the stretch nearer central Dartmouth that's more an issue. Unfortunately I view the LRT as a more urban oriented service since the suburbs can be easily served by Link-style express buses in dedicated lanes much more cheaply. I'm not sure LRT serving areas outside the Circ would be practical, unless done very cheaply.
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Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 10:07 PM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
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I think some of our two way streets could be converted to one way streets and with traffic all going the same direction we could get three lanes, 2 for cars and one for designated LRT. It would be a matter of finding a street a block or two over that could go the other way. Gottingen and Agricola are just 2 possibilities. Barrington and Hollis 2 more possibilities. Portland and Ochterloney 2 more although a little further apart
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Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 11:45 PM
Hali87 Hali87 is offline
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The trains lose time because they can't make a light and then have to wait - a problem that wouldn't occur if a system was underground.
The C-Train doesn't have signal priority on 7th Ave?
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Old Posted Feb 20, 2013, 11:51 PM
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The map is quite well presented isn't it.

So what is the best way to get those dense area's in Lacewood/Parkland, and Spryfield and surrounding connected to the peninsula during rush hour?
An idea that I have been toying around with lately is a gondola over the Northwest Arm, similar to the ones used at ski resorts. Each car usually seats up to 8 people (maybe 4 comfortably if they have bags etc.), supports are not much larger than power poles and I assume that a gondola would be considerably cheaper to build, operate, and maintain than say, an LRT line, ferry (with terminals), or a bridge. It would also be less visually intrusive than many other options, and offer a "London Eye" sort of tourist attraction (or just a pleasant part of the commute). Beyond maintenance, staffing requirements would probably be limited to commissionaires at each station to collect fare and provide basic security.

I think having a station near Dal and then one either at Cowie Hill or Fleming Park would work well and cut trip times down for many people, alleviate traffic, and create a genuinely more enjoyable commute. There is also the option of more than two stations. Portland, OR has something like this, although I think theirs has two large cars rather than several smaller ones.
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Old Posted Feb 21, 2013, 1:35 AM
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Here's what I've been playing with for a few days.

What got me thinking about this is Metro Transit's Portland Street High Frequency Corridor. I love that they implemented this idea and I started wonder just how reliable, and efficient the corridor really is. This got me thinking about improvements like bus lanes which then led me to noticing that the overpass needs to be widened for this so naturally I also lengthened it leading to my "Plan" which though extensive could be broken into reasonable stages.



Most things are self-explanatory but;

- Light green is landscaped areas (grass fields, treed boulevards, ect)
- Dark green are some sample trees
- Pink Lines are ramps and turning lanes
- Blue lines are through lanes
- Orange lines are BUS ONLY lanes
- Black lines are barriers, narrow medians and guardrails
- Red octagons are bus stops.
- The grey areas are pedestrian areas so bus terminal, pedestrian overpasses, platforms and sidewalks.
- The brown area is the LRT area (tracks and possibly power wires/poles)
- The purple area is the LRT station house.
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